Pre-Metallic Cartridges

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JimT
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Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by JimT »

It is cold and windy today so this morning I set out to make and load some "pre-metallic" cartridges ... otherwise known as paper cartridges. John Taffin got me started on this and I ended up buying a paper cartridge maker kit from Guns of the West. There are other paper cartridge kits out there and they appear to work well. I went with Guns of the West because when I talked to them and said I needed a kit for .36 caliber and a kit for .44 Dragoon I was told they could do both in one kit. Others may also but this was who I was talking to and that decided it for me.
IMG_5042.JPG
Using cigarette paper I wrap the forming tool, glue it and then put the end on.
IMG_5043.JPG
IMG_5045.JPG
Then cut the excess off the top
IMG_5046.JPG
Finished cartridge, ready to load. The forming tool is also a powder measure that throws the correct amount of black powder for the cartridge you are forming.
IMG_5047.JPG
25 cartridges ready to load.
IMG_5048.JPG
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Bronco
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Bronco »

Kewl :)
Is the paper treated ?
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JimT
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by JimT »

Bronco wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:37 pm Kewl :)
Is the paper treated ?
I use cigarette paper.
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Tycer
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Tycer »

Bronco wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:37 pm Kewl :)
Is the paper treated ?
Banana flavored.
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Ysabel Kid
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Jim - I like Dustin's kit as well. I think they are 3D printed, and I find the powder measure in the forming dowel to be a great idea! :D I do have the kit from Cap-n-ball, and a few others. Funny thing is back in the mid-1980's I was going through one of my Dad's old "American Rifleman" magazines (I think from the 1960's) and found an article on paper cartridge making. I made my own tapered dowel and began making my own. At the time no one made kits (pre-internet days anyway, so I wouldn't have known) and there were not a lot of conicals available, so I made them with round ball.

Lately I have been using coffee filters that I nitrate. These work really well and are a bit more robust than cigarette paper.

Very cool!
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JimT
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by JimT »

I am new at this .. got the kit in December and have not made more than a hundred rounds so far. How hard is it to nitrate paper?

Here's some of what I got done today ... all with a round ball.

.36 caliber... 16 gr. Goex FFFg ... 38 Special in middle
IMG_5053.JPG
.44 caliber .. 35 gr. Goex FFFg ... 44 Special in middle
IMG_5055.JPG
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Bronco
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Bronco »

I know next to nothing about making paper cartridges, have not done it.
I asked if you treat the paper because I once read that some nitrated the paper for an improvement, I am guessing in ignition or cleaner burning.
But banana might be interesting :D Have to be careful with that, might get high off of the fumes.
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CowboyTutt
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by CowboyTutt »

Jim, keep experimenting, I have no wisdom or experience to offer, other than my attempts in "paper patching" the 11mm Mauser with a smokeless load, were not successful.

Hopefully with Black, it will be better. You are on a steep learning curve. Keep at it, and keep us informed!

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2ndovc
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by 2ndovc »

Good stuff!
I bought one of the kits after your earlier post on paper cartridges, but i haven't even gotten it out of the package yet.
Hoping this weather will calm down, haven't been doing anything but working this winter. Planning on a range trip tomorrow morning, but we'll see how that goes.

I'm really enjoying these posts! Thank you!!!

Jason 8)
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Every time I see one of the "Eras Gone Bullet Molds" Youtubes where Mark is making up paper cartridges, I am tempted to try this. You are a patient man, Jim.
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Griff »

I tried them once... no kit, just tried rollin' them and forming... way to "fiddly". I gave up and never looked back.
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JimT
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by JimT »

I made some today and did not trim the paper .. I left it long enough that I loaded 44 gr. of 3Fg and the ball. I like the 36 gr. load as it is accurate but I want to try a bit more powder. With 36 gr. there is still quite a bit of room in that big ole cylinder.
765x53
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by 765x53 »

I've tried nitrating paper with stump remover , like the videos' recommend. It doesn't seem to make much difference when I burn samples for comparison.
I currently use artist tracing paper. it seems to be durable and burn as completely as any I've tried. I carry a bristle bore brush to remove the occasional remaining paper residue.
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Ysabel Kid
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Ysabel Kid »

JimT wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:28 pm I am new at this .. got the kit in December and have not made more than a hundred rounds so far. How hard is it to nitrate paper?
Not hard at all. Get yourself a can of potassium nitrate (easiest source is a can of stump remover). I'll have to look up the exact mix, but basically you mix some in water, dissolving the powder. Dip a coffee filter into the solution, completely wetting it. Hang it to dry. I do a bunch, then set the container with the mixture aside to dry. You can reuse the crystals after the water evaporates. When the coffee filters dry, you can cut the paper to side. Again, more robust than cigarette paper. I will have to try the tracing paper.

Below are some old posts I had on boxes for the paper cartridges I made. These are for round ball cartridges, using cigarette paper, and the method outlined in the 1960's article in the American Rifleman. You can see they had you try the paper above the ball and tie it off with a string. The biggest thing I remembered was not to over-glue the base, as it could impact reliability of ignition.

https://www.levergunscommunity.org/view ... ge#p743886

I need to find pictures of the more recent ones I made for conicals. Fun and easy doing the ones using Eras Gone By mold for Walker and Dragoon bullets. Making the ones for the Baby Dragoon in .31 caliber? My fingers just aren't small enough and these take forever! :shock:
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Bill in Oregon »

By the way, fellas, that same stump remover solution that Jay mentions is just what you want to soak your slow match in. Matchlocks forever! 8)
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Rimfire McNutjob
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Re: Pre-Metallic Cartridges

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

765x53 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:48 pm I've tried nitrating paper with stump remover , like the videos' recommend. It doesn't seem to make much difference when I burn samples for comparison.
I currently use artist tracing paper. it seems to be durable and burn as completely as any I've tried. I carry a bristle bore brush to remove the occasional remaining paper residue.
I'm wondering, can you still buy magician's flash paper? I think it was just small sheets of nitrated cigarette paper that would completely vanish in an orange flame when ignited.
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