Favorite SAA cartridge?

[1894cfan]

Was just thinking about such things and had a thought...what with all the ballyhoo about 9mm Parabellum/40S&W/45 Auto defense cartridges, what's yer favorite Colt SAA cartridge, 38/40(40/38?), 44/40 or 45 LONG Colt, and why?
I don't have one, but if I did, I'd go with 38/40 since my favorite auto loader is a 40S&W. Also, while I'm at it, though I have a thing for Marlins, I'd also go for a Winchester 73/92 in the same chambering!

[jeepnik]

.45 colt. Experience has shown me that .45 caliber pistol bullets ate more reliable than smaller calibers.

The same holds true. In rifles. A 45-70 is mote effective than .22x rifle cartridges.

[Sixgun]

No doubt..the 38 w.c.f......I've had them all and still do, experimenting , shooting, competing, casting, etc...with the 45 L.C., 44 Spl's, 38 & 44-40's, 41 L.Colt, and the 44 Russian all in Colt S.A.A.'s and every time, the 38-40 is the least hassle free the same way 38-40's are in rifles.....in terms of tolerances or in some cases, lack of.....

A very pleasant cartridge to play with. Everyone deals with recoil in their own way....while I don't mind heavy recoil, I prefer something in between that still has the power to fulfill necessary tasks such as smacking steel plates at 200 meters or rolling rocks along. An afternoon playing with the 38-40 is much more comfortable than an afternoon with the 250 gr. 45 L.Colt .....after all, that's all 99% of people do with their guns....play....

And I play.......well, used to a lot more, thinking nothing of shooting 8-12K rounds a year at steel or competing......last couple of years I've been living in the last 50 years or as some say, the past.

The 38-40 can be turned into a 44-40 by using a 200 grain bullet but no need to as not much out there wants to get shot with a 180 @ 1,000. In the Ruger you can turn it into something bigger but I never had the need to.

I use one bullet in all 38-40's....180 TC designed for the 40 S&W/10 mm......that bullet just "glides" up to the chamber of every lever or pump gun ever made and I got them all, Colts in all forms, Remington's, Winchesters, Marlins, Rugers....

Love that 38-40.....and after 35-40 years of loading for the 38-40 I'm still,on the same set of dies made in '67.....somewhere in the vicinity of 20k 38-40's....have to look at my log to be sure.--------006

Got a few more handguns in 38-40 but this is an old pic.....first one is a New Frontier Colt

[Old Savage]

.44 Special

[JRD]

I don't have nearly the experience that JimT or Six have with all the cartridges chambered in the SAA over the years.

My favorite based on my own experience is 45 Colt. Compared the the 44-40 which I've also loaded for an in SAA, 45 Colt is easier to reload. And I don't enjoy heavy recoil. Even though I load the traditional 250 grain bullets, over a low end charge, they are still enjoyable to shoot.

Plus a Dillon 550 with carbide dies can load plenty of 45 Colts to keep you shooting.

Jason

[Griff]

The only one I've ever had: 45 Colt. But, it life was suddenly backed up, and I knew what I've learned over the years, it'd be the 38WCF. I wasn't lucky enough to find my first SAA in 38WCF, it happened to be a 45 Colt. As no one is likely to offer to exchange every 45 Colt pistol & rifle I have for a like model in 38WCF, I'll just have to make do with what I've got! Plus, I really like playing with Adirondak Jack's Cowboy45Special variant of the 45 Colt!

[Scott Tschirhart]

.45 Colt.

[OldWin]

As someone mentioned, of the original chamberings, the 45 Colt is probably the easiest to load. Easy, less traditional would be 44 Special, 357, 38 Special, and 45 ACP.
While I've never had one, I too, would guess the 38-40 to be the best overall of the early chamberings. I have many rifles chambered for it and it is a wonderful cartridge. I should have bought an SAA in 38-40 years ago when they were cheaper.

[Sixgun]

As someone mentioned, of the original chamberings, the 45 Colt is probably the easiest to load. Easy, less traditional would be 44 Special, 357, 38 Special, and 45 ACP.
While I've never had one, I too, would guess the 38-40 to be the best overall of the early chamberings. I have many rifles chambered for it and it is a wonderful cartridge. I should have bought an SAA in 38-40 years ago when they were cheaper.

Cheaper? How can you get much cheaper than free?...You have got some nerve....last time you were here with that big buffalo coat, I was minus 7 single action Colts.

For real, when people say "the best"....what is meant by that?....each cartridge has its own attributes and negatives......any of them can be loaded to suit a special need. If one was going to say, "the best all around" then the 357 would be hard to beat. But.......the 357 in a handgun is about the same as an '06 in a bolt action rifle.......plain vanilla...

[1894cfan]

Guys, I was thinking the ORIGINAL three chamberings, you know, 38/40, 44/40 and 45 Colt. But what you're all going on about is still interesting! Thanks for all jumping in. Hope it will keep going for a while, at least until it's beat to death!

[.45colt]

.45 Long Colt,.45 Long Colt,.45 Long Colt , .45 Long Colt ,45 Long Colt..............................................................................................Nuff Said.

[1894cfan]

.45 Long Colt,.45 Long Colt,.45 Long Colt , .45 Long Colt ,45 Long Colt..............................................................................................Nuff Said.

What ever happened to the 45 SHORT Colt?

[Sixgun]

Another thing most people don't know with a 38-40 is all you have to do to have a 41 LONG Colt is to get a cylinder.

[CowboyTutt]

Six ol' friend, that 41 Long Colt sounds interesting, have to say, but not worth the trouble of starting over for me. Another for 45 Colt and whatever else I can fit in it LOL!
-Tutt

[OldWin]

How can the subject of Colt SAAs EVER be beat to death? That just can't be possible.

However, for cool points alone, it simply must go to the the 1st gen 44s. Big letters spelling "FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER' down the side of barrel.......how freakin cool is that?
They never should have stopped doing that.

And I didn't steal 7 Colts from ole Six.

There were only 6........and I found em.

[AmBraCol]

I've been searching for a 5 1/2" 38 Special SAA for a while now. They aren't exactly thick on the ground. I've got too much ammo loaded for my Rugers in 45 caliber to want to risk having a SAA to slip the wrong load into. A 5 1/2" 44 Special would be next on my list of calibers/barrel length in the Colt.

[arclight]

They are all so cool, steeped equally in history and romance. Have only owned SAA's in .45 Colt and .38 Special, so must defer to all your individual and collective experience. And while MANY old-timers used .44-40 SAA's to good effect, I would note that no less a luminary than Jeff Milton forsook the Colt in .44-40 when it jammed on him (bottle-neck cases backing out against the recoil shield maybe; I've got a love-hate relationship with my S&W M53 Jet, so I understand).

[Oldncrusty]

Dont have one yet, but doing some serious window shopping. Most likely will only ever have one, so gotta vote for .38-40 since I already love shooting my '73 in that cal..

[Ysabel Kid]

.45 Colt. Though I must admit I've never actually fired a .38-40 or .44-40 WCF. Just don't want to have to feed yet another caliber. I know original Winchesters were never chambered in .45 Colt, I do think it is easier to load as a straight-walled cartridge than the bottle-necked ones. I guess I'm a wimp.

Now, that said, I do like the .32-20 WCF as a great revolver/rifle combination.

[AJMD429]

.
I was gonna say......"32-20".....but since nobody else said that, I'm guessing they never made the Colt SAA in that chambering. If so, it would be a SWEET gun, and I think my favorite, as I like my Ruger Blackhawk 'Buckeye' in 32-20 quite a bit.

[Oldncrusty]

.
I was gonna say......"32-20".....but since nobody else said that, I'm guessing they never made the Colt SAA in that chambering. If so, it would be a SWEET gun, and I think my favorite, as I like my Ruger Blackhawk 'Buckeye' in 32-20 quite a bit.

They made plenty in .32-20. I'm guessing more than in .38-40, going by the ratio I see on GI.

[Sixgun]

Aaaaannnndddd, did you know that when Elmer Keith was a youngster an old timer then told him that when he was a kid...(probably in the 1880's) that he and a friend were held hostage and forced to work for free. The hostage taker let the kids keep their guns but took their ammo and one day they found a 38-40 cartridge so they wrapped tape around it and jammed it in the cylinder of a 45 L.Colt and shot the guy. According to him it did the job......that was in "Sixguns".

And did you know that I was the first person to think about using "Sixgun as a serial number" on a single action Colt since 1873? The one on the left is a 38-40 and the other is a 45 L.C......of course, unfired.....I get a call while these were being put together, "hey! You want "Sixgun 3" in a 32-20 while we are doing these?" I told him, "naaaa, I'm broke now".

[url=http

[1894cfan]

From what I've learned over the years, the first chamberings were 38/40, 44/40 and 45 Colt with 32/20 following soon afterwards. Let me know if I'm wrong. I think the Win 66 Yellowboy was the first chambered with 44/40 as the first centerfire.

[Sixgun]

First chambersing's were 45 Colt for the military in 1873 with the others coming later in the 1870's. 32-20 was somewhat later.....I got the books downstairs but for the most part the 45 Colt, 38-40,44-40,41 L.Colt and the 32-20 made up the majority of the first gen chamberings. Just type in Colt Single Action on Wiki and it has the better part of the info.----006

Here's one of 153 that were made in 44 Russian and was originally bought by Joh

[CowboyTutt]

Lots of good info here! -Tutt

[OldWin]

The old 45 is a fun cartridge, but many forget that even with black powder it was serious business till the advent of the magnums. In some respects, the BP loadings were hotter than commercial smokeless. If I recall, the design parameters were that the revolver needed to put a horse down at a hundred yards. Pretty tall order in 1873.
Too lazy to look, but I think the 44-40 didn't debut until 1877 or 78. It was called the "Civilian model", and was acid etched "FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER" at the behest of one of Colts biggest distributors (smart marketing). There were no caliber markings on the early 44s.
I think the 38-40 followed in 1880.

My old 1st gen 45 had a checkered past in a faraway land. I added the stags cause it just seemed right.
In the picture with it is my 2nd gen .357. This was a real sleeper. I bought it cause it was a good deal, and wasn't crazy about it being a 357. As it turned out, I actually really liked it once I got shooting it. Once I got past it not being an "original" chambering.
I've always wanted a 4.75 SAA. My kids all like 5.5, so I didn't want to sell one of my others. Never really happened onto a short barrel, so last year I choked it down and managed to find a brand new one. I've been more open to 3rd gen since Colt went back to the removable cylinder bushing back around 2003. Production is pretty limited now, and I heard quality has been pretty good so I took a shot. Wasn't easy finding one. I had decided to get a 44 Special, but apparently, that is a custom shop chambering now. Something about the 2 year wait and another thousand bucks made the old 45 look pretty good.
It's pictured here with my "Pimp Trapper" while hunting last year.

[JimT]

Whew! Lots of good reading in this thread! Neat stuff from Sixgun AND everyone else.

[veeman]

I've always been a 44/40 fan, and have 4 in said caliber, 1 Colt, 1 Uberti Colt, and 2 Uberti Remington's. I have 1 Colt 45 Colt, 2 Ruger 45 Colt's, and a Remington 1890 on the way in 45 Colt. 44/40 still is the favorite, but looking to get a Colt in 38-40 this year, that's the goal.

[Sixgun]

John Taffin said it best....he has certain guns for certain applications but when he "wants to stir the soul" he grabs a Colt Single action. I could not agree more......I've always looked up to John and his teachers, Elmer, Skeeter, our very own Jim Taylor and many more. They taught me the value of a gun.

There's nothing wrong with buying whatever gun made by whomever...that's your business......as Americans we all want "instant gratification" and that's why we will take ANY car when we are 16 but gradually upgrade to what we wanted in the first place. So, if you want that Colt, Smith, or Ruger...hold out and get what you want. I'm just a peon ex factory worker but I spent lots of time waiting to get what I wanted....studied...studied...studied......went to every action and estate sale that I could....literally devoting all of my free time to guns for my entire adult life.....this stuff didn't come to my door for free......I worked for em, usually paying .30 on the dollar because I knew a deal when I saw it.

So,if you want to "stir the soul" as John Taffin puts it, wait, explore, study........these Colts are within everyone's reach...but you got to work at it and don't expect to see them sitting on a dealers shelf. Once you get the reputation as an "old gun" person, they will magically show up at your door....so I eat those words I said previously

[1894cfan]

Six, THANK YOU for the pix of all your REALLY nice looking tools! BTW, what make of pocket watch is that?

The closest thing I've got to an SAA is a Ruger New Vaquero in .357 just stuffed with Power Custom parts. What got me onto them was I just absolutely hated the original hammer that stuck up a couple thousand feet that I could BARELY get my thumb on to cock it. SO, found out about Power Custom and just HAD to get their Colt style hammer, and while I was at it, got their guts kit and did all the work myself. I'll tell ya, it was a job getting the pawl filed down so all the chambers clicked into place! While I was at that, found out about Pvt. Schulz on ebay who sold replacement grips for sixguns, got a set of his grips for said New Vaquero. He's long gone now. I think Hickcock45 has a video on youtube for my model of Vaquero that he borrowed from a friend. Also got a set of Bisley parts, including the Bisley hammer, to play around with in my New Vaquero. Those didn't work out so well, so they are just sitting around in the original package gathering dust. Not trying to sell anything, but if anybody here is interested, let me know.

[marlinman93]

Without hesitation it's .45 Colt for me. But a close 2nd is .32-20 for me too! I'm a huge fan of both cartridges, and the .32-20 is a hoot to shoot in my SAA Uberti clone.

[Bill in Oregon]

I’ve had them in .45, .44-40 but never one in .38WCF—a very intriguing round. I like .44 Special from the smokeless era. I really enjoyed loading for and shooting an open top in .44 Russian — accurate and just so pleasant to shoot.

[AmBraCol]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

[Scott Tschirhart]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

I’m there with you. A SAA in .38 Special sounds very special indeed.

[JimT]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

I’m there with you. A SAA in .38 Special sounds very special indeed.

I visited a gun shop in Pryor, Oklahoma a couple years ago. The owner had a bunch of old Colts and among them was a First Generation in .38 Special. He only wanted $2000 for it, but it was a real junker and would have needed LOTS of work. I just couldn't do it, though it was tempting. I was there last year and he had passed. The guy who took over had mostly modern stuff. I was kinda sad.

[Sixgun]

Six, THANK YOU for the pix of all your REALLY nice looking tools! BTW, what make of pocket watch is that?

The closest thing al package gathering dust.

Thanks bro......my job as a forklift driver was just a way to pay the bills....my true life's work was my old guns....
If you have parts laying around you have 3 choices...1.) leave them laying around until you get a pick up truck load and then wonder what to do with them...(like me).............................2,) put them here on the classified or somewhere....(you will have to near give them away).....................3.) buy another gun where you think the part will work even if you have to throw away the part you took out. (American way)

The watch is cool..thank you!..... it's an Elgin.......and was the first thing my paternal grandfather bought in N.Y. after stepping off the boat from Sicily in 1912 before he went to work for Lucky Luciano.-------006

[Sixgun]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

Paul,
True on the number 25 as in 38 S.& W Spl. but there were 82 built on the 38 Colt Spl. which is the same round but with a flat point bullet tip. See....you learn something new everyday! Manufacturers in those days HATED to put another's name on their barrels so they just relabeled an old package with a new name....other than the 32-20, small calibers didn't sell in the Colt SAA.

In this pic I'm holding a U.S.Cavalry on the left, a 38 Colt Spl. on the right and a very rare 38-40 Target Bisley i

[Griff]

I’m there with you. A SAA in .38 Special sounds very special indeed.

In 1992, walking around the Ft. Worth gun show I spied a 2nd Gen Presentation Model Colt SAA in .357/.38 with a 7=½" bbl. It was in great shape except the backstrap was in bare metal. I went to the nearest bank and withdrew the cash necessary and made it my wife's cowboy action gun. In, 2018, I contacted the Colt Custom Shop and talked to them about a pair of 4-¾" (she finally told me after 15 years that she preferred the short barrels)... Colt SAAs in .38Spl with her SASS # as serial numbers, her alias on the back strap and presentation bbls on them, with "Ensuring 50 years of Wedded Bliss" engraved on the left side as her 50th anniversary gift. Worked out the timing of the order, etc... unfortunately we didn't get there. I was tempted to order them for myself and change it to "48 years..." But, it didn't quite have the same ring to it.

[1894cfan]

Thanks, Six. Youtube's Wristwatch Revival shows taking apart and cleaning a 1919 Elgin pocket watch.

[Sixgun]

Sure thing '94!...hey! In your earlier post about this eBay cat named Pvt. Schultz...is that the same Sgt. Schultz from Hogans Heroes after his promotion?... (I'm bored..cabin fever)

[1894cfan]

Nope, PVT. Schulz. Check out Hickcock45's New Vaquero video on youtube. Made about 12 years ago.

[Walt]

Griff, so sorry to hear of you losing your wife before your 50th.

Walt

[marlinman93]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

They did also build 2nd Gens in .38 Special. I owned a Colt 2nd Gen in .38 Special chambering, but foolishly sold it to a friend.

[AmBraCol]

After digging a bit I recall why the 38 Spl in the SAA isn't very common... only 25 built on the First Generation guns. And then they came out with 357 magnum which everyone seems to have gone to instead of the 38. I'd still rather have the 38 Spl though.

Paul,
True on the number 25 as in 38 S.& W Spl. but there were 82 built on the 38 Colt Spl. which is the same round but with a flat point bullet tip. See....you learn something new everyday! Manufacturers in those days HATED to put another's name on their barrels so they just relabeled an old package with a new name....other than the 32-20, small calibers didn't sell in the Colt SAA.

In this pic I'm holding a U.S.Cavalry on the left, a 38 Colt Spl. on the right and a very rare 38-40 Target Bisley in my belt.---006

Thanks for the info, Six. I'd forgotten about the 38 Colt. IIRC they did the same with the 32 SWL, a different bullet in the same basic case. For the record, I favor the flat tipped profile over the more common RNL style. Anyway, I keep hoping that someday I'll manage to snag a .357 bored SAA marked 38 Spl or Colt. A USFA so marked would be an excellent substitute. I'm trying to remember who had one (or was it a pair?) on order with them before they quit turning out decent single actions and spit in our collective face with their ill advised "Zip gun".

[Griff]

Griff, so sorry to hear of you losing your wife before your 50th.
Walt

It's been just shy of 4 years... Thank you.

[Ysabel Kid]

I think the Win 66 Yellowboy was the first chambered with 44/40 as the first centerfire.

Hmmm. Originally the Winchester Model 1866 was chambered in .44 Henry rimfire. Same round as the Henry rifle. The Winchester 1873 introduced the .44-40 WCF round. The 1866 continued to be made well past the introduction of the 1873 (to 1899), but I think it continued to be made in .44 Henry. Not saying that it never came in .44-40 WCF; Winchester was like Colt during that time frame, and would pretty much do anything a customer was willing to pay and wait for.

[1894cfan]

OOPS! Looks like I was wrong, not for the first time, nor the last. Just watched Ian's Forgotten Weapons video on the 1866, it was chambered just in the Henry 44 rimfire, not the 44/40.

[Walt]

My allegiances in SAA cartridges are split between .45 Colt and .44 Special. I love 'em both. This isn't in regard to original Colt chamberings but rather more modern loadings.

[Sixgun]

The 45 Long Colt and the 45-70 were chosen by our military with an emphasis on stopping power............on horses......

Could you imagine trying to stop a cavalry charge with 38 long Colts???

For people shooting....although I have zero experience with such a thing and can only speak from what I've read, the 38 Spl./9mm with the proper loading and bullet design is adequate. Cops and military have different needs so they should stay with the big bores, but the average guy can shoot the 38/9mm much more accurately.

Now, speaking for Japanese invaders Jeff Cooper did say the 45 did an excellent job on them, saying they were tough little critters but keep in mind that 20 Japs rushing at you with full intent to lop your head off vs. one or two civilians in a parking lot altercation are apples and oranges.......

I can visualize Jeff now, "come on out of that cave" and as they exited good ole Jeff gives em a burst from the Thompson...pow! pow! pow! 20 times then an another 20 rd. stick get inserted and good ole Jeff takes down 20 more.....not enough in my opinion for what they did to our boys while in captivity.....----006

[Walt]

I may be mistaken but I have never seen in various writings where old Jeff actually saw combat. I know this is sacrilege but Jeff was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth.