Open sights-Precious guns!

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Well everyone's pretty well covered the the truth of how to best shoot with open sights. Smoking them black, black markers and flat black paint, these all sure make a huge difference, because it's a fact, no matter how good one is on their aim, the sights and the targets appear different! In different lights, different times of day, different weather!
But there's a few more things that can be done to make sights "much more precise" to the user! And I done know most of us have covered and came to our final conclusions of what works for us. But I also know there's many, especially younger shooters & hunters searching for more, because that's how I first found this place long ago. And I want to show just a couple tiny little alterations that make a huge difference. Not in quickness, or ease of finding the sights, but better and most important consistent accuracy. Most of us are deer, big game hunters and the fact is, 1-5 shots a season are about the limit. But small game serious target shooters, multiple consistency is an absolute!
20220319_120103.jpg
20220319_120139.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

This first rifle, certainly not my best, but just a sweet little favorite. A Steven's Mod 15a, 24" barrel, and best, it's made from 1948-65, this one I don't know, but it shoots 22lr, longs, and shorts. I've refinished the wood, bedded the action with black tape, (laugh, but it works) and shimmed the trigger with aluminum foil, great 2 stage type, but breaks so light and crisp! These where originally Mod 15 in 30's 40's, no buttplate, 24 parts total, and the boy scouts used them substantially. But the 15a was Carlos Hathcocks first rifle, that he really learned shooting, hunting squirrels and rabbits! Mine weighs 5lb 2oz, and it come apart with the one action thumb screw, and I've put it in my backpack when going bowhunting to have for squirrels. This is a very accurate, useful rifle.
And notice the front sight. I always file a flat spot on a round bead. A round bead,no matter even when blackened perfect, still some lights, give a slight indefinite tip, but a flat level spot gives a better definition due to its width. This has sure helped me. They're blackened with flat black paint, but this easily wears off sharp edges, and those tiny bright edges will destroy your aim. I always carry a black marker in the woods with me.
20220319_120517.jpg
20220319_120414.jpg
Notice the 2 tiny holes I drilled. They're for holding 2 rounds ready for quick reload. The rifles a single shot that you have to cock the hammer. I added the coin medallion when I refinished it on 2016.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

20220319_123211.jpg
If I do my part, it'll put em into a squirrels head or vitals every shot, certainly inside 45 yds. This 10 shot group at 25yds I shot recently. The one flyer, is from changing ammo. I shot 5, tried a different type, them went back to the Win 333 bulk ammo. It loves these.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

These are my Marlin 30-30, that I've killed several deer with, and I also flattened the front sight for the same reason, it works. But notice the sight hood. I actually love the sight hood on the old Marlins, made just right, but notice I filed it in the rear until it was slightly out past the bead. It let's the light from. 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock shine down on it but blocks light from coming on at low angles which are the worse kind. And I do like the brass bead because many shots here are in thick brush, low lighted places, and the bright bead can help. There's no perfect front sight for every situation, but this is what is most likely to happen. Shooting squirrels mostly up in trees, sky lighted, I much prefer black sights, and on white paper targets.. I zero it at 100yds, and the bullet flies inside a 1" circle all the way to near 125yds. Then I have the tang sight zeroed for 175yds and this rifle then with the barrel sight folded, is an honest 200yd rifle, capable always, shooter questionable! But I load the 160 gr Hornady ftx just for this rifle, it loves em, and at over 2300fps MV its still got umph at 200. This is one outstanding hunting rifle!
20220318_180148.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

But most importantly, I filed the rear semi buckhorn blade down flat, and then some more. Down until all that's left is the bottom of the U. Now the bead fits down into it, just like dropping a golf ball into a Dixie cup, it's like it just fits. Level the top of the bead with the blade, hardly any room for arrow. These sights are the best I ever used for accuracy out to 125yds!
20220318_180226.jpg
20220318_180258.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

These sights actually become smaller by doing this and a small aiming point makes for precision shooting. The old mountain rifle makers here long ago, many just used a thin blade nickel silver front sight or a preferred metal. Then the rear blade was a wide flat bar, with only a shallow v cut in it, and the tip of the blade in the v left very little room for error! Good eyes mandatory tho.
I've read everything Alvin York ever wrote about this, and others wrote about him. Lots of good stuff all about shooting in Ned Robert's book, "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle". One the best books I know of, he knew shooting, but he preferred receiver sights, but he covers them all!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I hope I don't bore anyone with all this but I got to cover this rifle, a CZ Mod 452 Ultralux 29" barrel 22lr, and some of my times with it. But I never made any alterations to its sights, they were almost perfect the way it came. The only thing I would've liked to have changed was the front post. It's not a bead, but a straight & flat front post, my favorite for hunting, with a very wide flat blade rear, fairly shallow U, and this helps in leveling your shot, very important not to cant the rifle side ways. I have a Mod 91/30 Russian Mosin Nagant rifle, and for my use these are the perfect sights. It's actually about identical to the CZ sights, only the front blade is narrower, just wide enough to leave a flat tip!
20220319_132057.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

20220319_132326.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

20220319_132441.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

There's no doubt this rifle made me a better shot & hunter. With the long 29" barrel, European curved beechwood stock, it made the rifle weigh a little more, and for those that have done both modern rifle shooting vs muzzleloaders, many still preferred the slight weight and barrel heavy for steadiness of aim shooting offhand, and this rifle does just that. Alvin York, continued most his life shooting matches, he had a shooting range for this on his property close to his house. I've been there. And he preferred the thin barreled, homemade by mountain gun makers, caplocks with open sights for target shooting. The best reloaders there ever was was these shooters they had to know how to load for cold, hot, wet, everything and believe me they knew their rifles. They shot matches in these mountains of Ky, TN, VA, N.Ga, every weekend weather permitting, and it's was part of their lives, the most looked for entertainment they had, and shot for turkeys, hogs, beef, everything! The shotgun just spoiled everyone!
And history records by books that Alvin had a receiver sighted Mod 1917 rifle when he had that amazing day in France. And he never clarified for sure in his writings, only in his one book of his journals how he got the new rifle in France, that he didn't like as well because of the receiver sight. His boy made it clear to locals, Andrew Jackson York, that before the battles, he had traded for another 1903 Springfield with open sights. His boy made it clear! I've talked to Alvin's daughter on law, but I didn't want to question her.
But the book by Ned Robert's is an outstanding read, and he learned to shoot by his uncle, who was one of Berdans Sharp Shooters in the Civil War.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

In the book I mentioned there's a lot about the old mountain gun makers of the Appalachian Mts. One of interest is in this pic. He lived not far from my here about 30 minutes. It states he lived on Grassy Creek but its actually Greasy Creek. But he's supposed to have lived longer than any other man, 134 years. He did know Boone, and it's for sure. When he died, his kids was at the funeral. His oldest girl who was in her 90's, and his youngest son in his teens.
20220319_151709.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Oldncrusty
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:39 am

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Oldncrusty »

Great stuff! Thanks for the tips. Sure hope I make it to 134. :lol:
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Not me, especially having a teenage son then!Lol
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Woodsloafer2
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Location: Maine

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Woodsloafer2 »

Great reading...thank you!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Glad to share it, because there was a long time that nothing I did, as far as personal self interest, was as important, enjoyable, and self satisfying, as shooting and hunting with my iron sighted rifles. It all started really with a Marlin 39a, and went on with many other rifles since. I didn't really understand my, often great success and then turn to poor success, until I understood how much light effected me. I was way up in the years.
One last thing I want to mention, was I set to prove just to myself how much light changed POI, even on the same day injust minutes.
Back around 2009 - 2012, I made targets just for this, and used my CZ Ultralux with best ammo, knowing my own confidence in my gear. I would shoot purposely many rounds on good visual targets with easy aiming points at 100yds. On overcast skies but good clear air, I could consistently shoot tight groups, but most of all, centered on the bullseye, probably 90% of my shots, and with iron sights at that distance you've got to allow for your error.
Then I would use the same gear early at daylight on my 4w, bound for high mountain strip mine reclaims, knowing the sun would soon be up. Shooting before the sun rose above the ridges, good consistent shooting. I would already be set knowing I would be looking into the sunrise, the sun just off to the side slightly. My POI would then always, shift to the sunny side. The sun at a low angle, hitting on say the left side. It gives the front sight, on the left side, good clear defined lines, but a actual shadow on the right side, unclear where the right side was, thus making the top flat sight appear wider, so I would center what I thought was the sight, thus taking the barrel slightly more towards the sun! I had target after target to prove it, and I was honestly trying my best to be perfect! The misses by far, where to windage, elevation usually about right with the low sun!

Then as soon as proved, reverse direction, shoot with the sun directly behind me, and these revealed almost as good as an overcast day, as far as placement.

And aiming at small circles to duplicate hunting shots, 20 to 50 yds away, doing the same type rests on a kinda dark & foggy early morning conditions. 35yds was a good distance, to prove this, aiming at a 1" black circle, on white paper. In low light, that circle looks really small, but then in good light, it appears larger, same circle same distance. You've heard the old saying, "Lights up sights up". It's true. In low light you'll raise the sight up to what appears the bottom of the circle, but in bright light, you'll drop it because it appears bigger. And this gets even worse in the squirrel woods, because a squirrel head isn't flat, it's 3d so the edges are even less defined, thus you easily shoot over it in low light, but his head appears 3 times bigger in bright light. So you probably need to raise slightly to hit center!
All this is based upon shooting by a 6 o'clock hold, which is how I sight my rifles. If you shoot center of the bead or what some refer to as thru the bead, the difference is less.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
3leggedturtle
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4145
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:34 am
Location: north of Palacios about 1400 miles

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by 3leggedturtle »

My friend had 6 CZ 452 variants. The Trainer was was fun to shoot with subsonics at the 100 yard gong. He only kept the 16" version and the 22mag with 25" barrel. Thanks for sharing. Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31939
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by AJMD429 »

.
Thanks for a long and informative post; lots of work went into that I’m sure. Few people have the patience to do the testing you did in various light conditions, and even fewer still have the shooting skills to see the difference.

Marlin made some front sight hoods that were open on top except at the very front and back; they let in light but served as sort of a ‘ghost ring’ for the front. Helped more with speed of finding the front sight in dim light than it did for accuracy per se though, for me on my 1894 deer gun (44 Mag).

I also like the ‘crosshair’ type front apertures available in the Lyman ‘globe’ sights (and for the AR-15 from Knight); they both provide a round front ghost for rapid shooting but the crosshair for precision when you have another second.

Here’s a link to a post I did on improving sights on an AMT target pistol just using an ordinary roll-pin to create an aperture front - somewhat applicable to a long gun perhaps - https://www.levergunscommunity.org/view ... =1&t=43463

Finally, although I’m partial to receiver sights like the Williams FP, I’ve really liked the Marbles Bullseye as a slip-in replacement for rear barrel-mounted sights. Sometimes a taller front is required but not always. Good for older eyes and nothing is obstructed vs the normal open iron sights.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I had the CZ Trainer 25" barrel, and it was probably the most accurate of my 3 CZ's, as far as pure benchrest accuracy, and just about as good in the woods with iron sights. But the Ultralux just shines all around for this, so 2 years ago I gave it to my brother. I also have a CZ 452 American, scoped, it's been death on squirrels. I was about to sink money into an Anshutz 22 before I learned about the CZ's. They're a lot of rifle further money! They dropped the 452 models, went to now a I believe 457? I'd bet they're great rifles, but I don't know anyone who's tried them.
Doc I saw your roll pin idea, that's no doubt deadly accurate! I have a Williams FP on my Win Mod 64, love it! That rifle has the smaller front bead, brass or something, butto my eyes it looks white, which is perfect wouldn't dream of anything better for that rifle. When I shoot a receiver sight I've got center a round bead in it, shoot through the bead, that's what works for me with those. The roll pin see thru would work great for me I done know! And I've eyed the Marbles Bullseye thinking of it several times, but I got to face reality. I'm 63 and I don't need anymore ideas or something new, I've already lost some of my ability with open irons because of my eyes since about 2015. In my younger days I'd loved that Bullseye, done been thinking why didn't someone think of that long ago!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I really only touched on it, but I want to highly emphasize, the book by Ned Robert's, "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" .
Ned Robert's being the same of the "257 Robert's Cartridge ". But it seems not many people have heard of the book, mainly because of the name, loss of interest in the Muzzloaders, but this book written in the early 1900's is so much more than that. If you like hunting, shooting, and especially iron sights, but regardless, any gun nut will love this book.
His writing, is just like his life, in depth down to every little detail, that few even consider. And it's really mostly about other people, he traveled and studied, and shared guns, gunmaking, every aspect of shooting & hunting, before he wrote about it! He practiced what he preached!
And there's pics, even more so in the latest reprint of old time everything. I first read an old copy and it's fine, but I knew I had to have my own. Found I believe the NRA recent reprint, and it's the best, but don't pass on the old copy if available!
Best book I've found bar none!
Just the first chapter, about him growing up and learning from his "Uncle Alvaro", who was of the Berdans Sharpshooters, is alone worth reading!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Oldncrusty
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:39 am

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Oldncrusty »

Thanks for more info on the book. I'll be a lookin.
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I haven't read it in about 10 years myself. But I put 2 years into when I did, counting looking up history, info, doors this book makes possible! Probably about December when winter hits again, I read it again!
20220321_130944.jpg
20220321_130951.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Probably some of you have heard of Shiff. He was a very intelligent man, and I think carried a lot of clout in big politics even. His gun sales even back then kinda rivaled the internet, papers listing fine firearms of his for sale
20220321_131701.jpg
20220321_131638.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Just one gunmaker of many covered
20220321_132308.jpg
20220321_132219.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I've been in Alvin's home, and where they had the shooting matches on his farm. They still have a memorial match there every year.
20220321_131153.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Talk about sun shades!
20220321_131800.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

Ned Robert's called it the "Beef Shoot at Jimtown", because
that's what they called the nearest town back in the day, Jamestown, TN. But the shoot is on Alvin's Farm then & still, in Pall Mall Tn.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

20220321_135132.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

I figure some of you have seen the movie Sgt York. It was made in 1941, and for someone who don't know the truth, it just seems like an old drama story. There's a few changes to the details, but basically it's very factual, not dramatized. It's only about 3.5-4 hours from here, and I was born in 59, he died in 64, and I remember hearing all about him from my dad, many people, because back then, people carried on their heritage, and mountain peoples education was mostly by this method!
He influenced my life more than any one other outsider, and he was raised just like the movie portrays, 3rd grade education. His dad died very early in his life, and Alvin went Hog Wild. But before he went in the Army, he got saved, made peace with God, and became one great man of faith! Such men, God use, and that day in France it's well known, was even more dramatic than the movie can show you! The German Maxim Machine guns bullets would've killed a field mice traveling the path that day that Alvin took to get to the enemy. WELL KNOWN FACT! But he turned the day and single handed almost, captured 130+- German soldiers there that day!
All said and done, all over, they tried to make him rich, movies, the works. But all he wanted was to go home, his old simple life and family back, and not least his hounds-hunting dogs.

When he finally give inand let them make the movie, the money he made, he used to build a school there and other community things. Because one thing he learned from being in army, going overseas, was how little and limited he was because of the poverty. He died highly in debt, and because mainly of people like Ed Sullivan, and few other celebrities, they raised the money by broadcast, tv, to pay his debts!
In the movie, he goes up on a big local cliff, to pray and get answers whether he was capable of even shooting a rifle in combat at another man? Those big cliffs are visible from his yard, his daughter in law pointed them out when I was there. The stories true! Great movie, big part of America. And that day, really turned the tide totally against Germany, along with a few other heroes in about 3-4 days there on France! Germany shortly thereafter surrendered!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15189
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by piller »

Men who knew how to shoot have been changing the outcome of war since bows were used. Alvin York became a man to admire. His shooting was only a part of it. He could have killed more than he did. His capturing so many was more valuable than a few deaths.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

One thing of interest, many on heree pistol shooting. Alvin was no doubt a great rifle shot, and all his life he practiced it. But he was 1 in a million with a pistol! He didn't really want the rifle he used that day, but he very much wanted to keep the 45Auto he used that day, but it was stolen on board ship coming back to US. He killed the Germans with it just like it shows in movie, from the last to the closest!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
Drawdown
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Drawdown »

That's exactly right piller. Just a few days prior, very near the same area, the story of The Lost Batallion, under the command of Charles Whittlesey, was just as miraculous, just their holding out alone, surrounded behind enemy lines. It broke German Moral, they soon surrendered!
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

"Better drawdown Alvin!"
"If you gotta shoot, shoot don't talk"
Conservative since day one and until the last!
User avatar
AmBraCol
Webservant
Posts: 3651
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:12 am
Location: The Center of God's Grace
Contact:

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by AmBraCol »

Good post! I'll second that recommendation for "The Caplock Rifle". It's part of my meager shooting library and contains a wealth of information.
Paul - in Pereira


"He is the best friend of American liberty who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion." -- John Witherspoon

http://www.paulmoreland.com
http://www.pistolpackingpreachers.us
http://www.precisionandina.com
Rusty
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9528
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: Central Fla

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by Rusty »

I went to the Alvin C. York state historical site several years ago with my son. I felt like I was on holy ground. The state park rangers were both friendly and informative. We talked about the rifle that Alvin used in France. They had a Springfield on display but the ranger did say that York did talk about "that English rifle." There never was a definite statement as to which rifle he used. Even though his unit was issued Enfields I don't think it would be that hard to swap rifles in a war zone.
We talked with the rangers for quite some time. One of them was even friendly enough to go get a French rifle out of the trunk of his car to share that bit of insight with us. They also said that the American helmets were inferior to the British helmets even though they were shaped the same. A shell burst from overhead would allow shrapnel to penetrate an American helmet while a British helmet would stop it.
York was truly an American hero, at least he is one of mine. My son and I watch that movie about once a month.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
MS 9x56
Levergunner
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:47 pm

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by MS 9x56 »

The notch in the rear sight on my MS 1905 was so small I had a hard time seeing the front bead in it. I took it to my gunsmith and had him rework it into a wide shallow V express style and added a gold filled centerline. Viola what a difference!
Life is too short to hunt with ugly guns
User avatar
6pt-sika
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9466
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:15 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Open sights-Precious guns!

Post by 6pt-sika »

MS 9x56 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:32 am The notch in the rear sight on my MS 1905 was so small I had a hard time seeing the front bead in it. I took it to my gunsmith and had him rework it into a wide shallow V express style and added a gold filled centerline. Viola what a difference!
I’ve got an 8x56 MS that’s a bit of trouble to shoot . It “had” a double leaf rear sight at one point but the foldable leaf was lost some time before I got it . I’ve got a side Mount for it to set it up like the MS model 1903 6.5x54 MS I have but so far I’ve refrained from drilling and tapping it for the side Mount .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Post Reply