Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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CowboyTutt
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Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

My goal has been to design a cartridge where an Enfield #4 Mark 1 or Mark 1* could repeatedly shoot the steel targets at the Friends of Billy Dixon Ultra Long Range Shooting Facility in Hotchkiss, Colorado at 1538 yards with iron sights. Just for a review for those unfamiliar with the shooting range, here is an ancient article I wrote years ago with McPherson. We have quite a few upgrades at the range since that time.

https://gunblast.com/AndyTuttle_FOBD.htm

My best friend Tym years before this article, had hit the center Indian target dead square from a seated position with his #1 Enfield with factory ammo. Problem was, the following year, the bullets from the same rifle went wildly unstable and we could not even determine where they were hitting. So weather conditions played a big part that first time. This eventually led me on my search to create a load for my Savage Enfield that could repeatedly hit the target array there at 1538 yards. My 11mm Mauser with my heavyweight 505 grain bullet can do it well, even in terrible wind conditions. It was apparent to me that we would need a lot of work to make this goal possible with my Savage Enfield. Recently we have just about completed the adapter to mount my Jim Kelley Seoul Extra Long Range Staff that was incredibly expensive, but really looks amazing on the rifle and it will work at ranges beyond 1200 yards where the factory Vernier sight and loads begin to falter.

We need to cut a relief in the bottom of Randy''s adapter to clear the bolt lug when rotated up to pull the bolt out of the gun, but so far, the gun can function the action correctly with it mounted. The color case hardening and brass components on the staff really complimented the brass parts on my rifle.

Image

Image

Today, we reached an important milestone in this project. My new "heavy weight" 303 bullet design is completed by Todd Corter. I have named it the TC Torpedo for now (which can stand for Todd Corter or Tutt-Corter). It is 1.5 inches long, designed at a diameter of .315 that can be swaged down when lubed, and weighs 259 grains predicted at that size. It has an almost perfect 48.62/51.38 center of gravity and way better balanced than any Spitzer bullet. I ran it through again at 261 grains (It picked up 10 grains of weight in the latest revision from the 249 grain weight prototype) through both a Greenhill Calculator and Berger's Miller Formula Calculator using the factory 1:10 twist. It should work at our projected velocity of 1600 fps with Blue Dot (slower is better sometimes and why I needed the longer sight staff). I can also load this bullet to the same pressure with Varget and have it do 1900 fps predicted. This would make a dandy hunting load.

Here is the TC Torpedo:

Image

Next, off the design goes to a mould maker, probably Tom at Accurate Moulds. From there to Matt at Matt's Bullets. Hopefully I can get some to test by Easter Break at FoBD.

I intend to make it available to anyone who wants to try it, and is partially the reason I had it designed over-sized at .315 so it can be swaged down to what someone else may need. I will probably have mine done at .314. My barrel is choked at .305 at the muzzle, so we narrowed and tapered the round nose from .302 to .301 to .30 so that part of the bullet is not touching the rifling. This is what they call a "bore rider" design. There is an extended 45 degree scraper grove just ahead of the front driving band and a cut behind it to relieve bore to barrel friction slightly and maybe provide a place for displaced lead to go. It should seat deep enough into the case where all the lube grooves are protected below. This is really meant to be a target load with no crimp, just an interference neck fit, and fired extra long COL in single shot mode, but it could be adapted to work as a magazine load for hunting too I suspect. We tried to leave enough bearing surface there in the front driving band to do that and seat it deeper. A Lee FCD could probably do the job for a crimp, or maybe a Redding Taper Crimp die, I will have to see. That's not what I am really designing it for right now? But will be the next logical step in the process. I tend to design my custom loads for long range target shooting first, and hunting purposes next. You can have both actually with some work and research.

I have to thank my friends who have been helping me with this project. The level of support has been crazy!

Mic McPherson with trigger job and help with bullet design and instruction using Quick Load over the years.

Todd Corter for bullet design with some input from me in length and front and rear bullet profile.

Randy Arnt for outstanding tight machine work and sight advice to make a rear sight adapter for the Kelley Seoul sight using the factory Savage base from 1942.

Jim Williamson for helping slug my bore when I screw up. I know just enough to be dangerous....

-Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by 2ndovc »

Really love that new sight. Nice to see a finely machined and fitted piece of equipment,
Looking forward to the availability of your bullets, really want to try them in the 7.62x54r rifles. I missed out on a Finn match rifle a couple weeks ago, got busy and forgot that the auction was ending. I see the Model 28/76 pop up about once or twice a year for sale. I'll bag one sooner or later.

jb 8)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Sixgun »

Everything looks fine for a bore rider but have you done measurements of 303's throats? Many are worn. Even if the bore rider is a thou or two under, the bullet may not be concentric with the bore. You may have to o.303-5., why not a gas check? Without it you will be dependent on a perfect bore and crown.

Am I missing something....like, are you using new barrels?----006
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Grizz »

CowboyTutt wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:05 pm Just for a review for those unfamiliar with the shooting range, here is an ancient article I wrote years ago with McPherson. We have quite a few upgrades at the range since that time.

https://gunblast.com/AndyTuttle_FOBD.htm
Very good article. Thanks for the link.

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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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Sixgun wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:51 pm Everything looks fine for a bore rider but have you done measurements of 303's throats? Many are worn. Even if the bore rider is a thou or two under, the bullet may not be concentric with the bore. You may have to o.303-5., why not a gas check? Without it you will be dependent on a perfect bore and crown.

Am I missing something....like, are you using new barrels?----006
Hey Ol' Friend, this rifle was never issued and to be honest, I'm not sure it was even ever fired??? The parkarized metal and brass pins were flawless. It was covered in cosmoline, probably for decades. The bore and crown look perfect, at least to the naked eye. It is whatever Savage made it as. I can put a dab of Lee's Liquid Alox on the base of the boat tail that will act like a gas check. -Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Sixgun »

Sure Mic told you but I'll repeat for others here who do not know.....on a new barrel and you plan on shooting cast out of it, send down 4-500 hundred jacketed bullets to smoothen it up..... About 1,000 cast usually works good too....

Thats how us old timers did it.........but today, with the internet and self proclaimed scientists and experts on barrel care, there may be other methods. ----00

Liquid alox for a gas check? Maybe for gas blow by but a gas check helps to mechanically line the bullet up along with gas blow by and it also helps to prevent skidding of the bullet and the lands.....

I don't know, it's your gig and we old timers are stuck in our ways....you certainly have the best guy in the country guiding you...good ole Mic forgot what most of us ever knew.....---006
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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It was actually Randy Arnt who suggested the use of Lee's Liquid Alox that will provide some additional protection to the base of the bullet. Mic said it wasn't really needed. Here is a digital drawing Mic made for me to show how a bore rider works. The case thickness is not to scale. I had to crop it a lot to make it post but you can see how it interacts with the chamber and bore. The bullet nose is smaller than any part of the rifled bore and will not make contact. Behind the nose is a 45* degree scraper that takes you to the first driving band which will be what rides down the bore. The bullet as cast will be .315 but can be swaged down as I said. Mic asked me to say that "I could have added, that this is with some engravement into the rifling upon chambering".

Image

-Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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Liquid alox for a gas check? Maybe for gas blow by but a gas check helps to mechanically line the bullet up along with gas blow by and it also helps to prevent skidding of the bullet and the lands.....
Hey my friend, I am no expert here. I can see how a copper gas check can help with gas blow by but its so undersized on this boat tail design it would never make contact with the rifling to prevent skidding. I've never seen a gas check on a BT design, but I only reload for a dozen cartridges at best, and as Old Savage would tell you, most of them are semi-custom to full custom loads to the gun. In that sense, I could see why Randy recommended the Lee's Liquid Alox to further protect the BT bullet base and keep it true. It could just help to seal gasses and protect maybe slightly more than is necessary the bullet base. I have so many experts working with me on this project, they sometimes disagree, but at the end of the day, they are committed to their mutual friendship and they always come into some form of agreement. Again, I'm very blessed to have these guys helping me out.

-Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Sixgun »

No Tutt....you misunderstood...obviously a gas check not work on that design.....I was thinking cut off the boat tail but it's your baby!

That's really going to be interesting and a project to which I'm eager to see the results. My long range 30 caliber is the 215 Lyman to which I've had to excellent results in the 30-40, '06, and even the 30-30. My best accuracy has always been when the long nose just kisses the lands....good enough to hold the bullet stabile but not enough to where it comes out if you have the need to extract a loaded round.

But 1500+ yards with a 30 caliber? ......you need more mass....and a lot more velocity for shooting that far....----002

Hope you prove everyone wrong.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by AJMD429 »

.

Cool project. Thanks for posting...!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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But 1500+ yards with a 30 caliber? ......you need more mass....and a lot more velocity for shooting that far....----002
Hey my friend, first off, length of this bullet is maximized for the twist. That decision was on me. The weight is what it would be. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but what McPherson has seen is that when the velocities are too high to begin with, when the bullet goes trans-sonic, and subsonic, it can often destabilize. It is not a particularly scientific and measured discussion based upon data, but what he has seen. And what he has seen is that slower moving bullets do better when going subsonic.

This might be because the bullet has more time to stabilize after it goes subsonic before it hits the target, if it is well balanced. This bullet is extremely well balanced so hope for the best. At ranges beyond 1538 yards, I have to wonder if the Varget load might be the better one at a predicted 1900 fps, which is the ragged edged of a non hard cast bullet.

There are all these theories out there, what McPherson offers is actual experience shooting so many different rifles and loads at extreme distance. Even he is the first to admit, it doesn't work until you test it.

Regards,

-Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

My best accuracy has always been when the long nose just kisses the lands.
Yup, seat them as close as possible for single shot firing depending on bullet hardness. Pure lead, or wheel weight lead, seat into the rifling and can close the bolt. You can make a "dummy round" and blacken the bullet tip with a lighter, or a black sharpie. Then back off accordingly for COL. I do this with my 71/84 Mauser or any pure lead, or wheel weight lead bullet I use. Hard cast lead? Probably need .030. A monolithic, probably start at .050. -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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I’m excited to hear more about this project! Best of luck!!!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Sixgun »

Tutt,
In my book your just a youngster......50 something...kid!... :D Funny thing, I remember an old timer telling me when I was 20 something that the older you get the people you used to think were old don't look so old.......I look at Tutt as a kid and Old Savage as old, like ancient. :D

Anyway Tutt, I really don't know you or your past experiences casting bullets so forgive me if I sound like a "teacher".

On your project, which is mostly unprecedented by the overwhelming majority of cast bullet people, you will find many "experts" telling you "this or that". (You know that) Casting bullets and their use IS an art unless your casting for a 9mm Uzi or a Smith '76 where anything will work.

That is why I'm interested in your project because all of the past knowledge may not play into it and new unknown knowledge will be gained. I forgot how many times I went beyond the books and while there are many "rules of thumbs" there are also many parameters that few people enter because of lack of knowledge or sissy fear......but you are entering the "new frontier".

I still say you need a gas check and much higher velocities to keep your bullet super sonic as long as possible. The reason Billy Dixon made that shot was because his bullet never went above transonic. Go take a .22 l.r. with the highest velocity ammo you can get and match ammo at 1080......shoot them at 300 yards on a nice still day and you see....but you probably knew that.----006
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by JimT »

Hey Sixgun!
I went TransPacific and TransAtlantic quite a few times in my life and past 75 years I am still going!
And no gas check!
:lol:
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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That was funny Jim! Here's another rendering. -Tutt

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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by 2ndovc »

I'm dying to say something really obnoxious here, but have to remember that this is a family show. :lol:

jb 8)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by marlinman93 »

Might want to buy a strap on cheek rest to allow you to keep your cheek contact with the buttstock when the sight is elevated enough for the long shots. I have a black nylon velcro style I use on my old guns for long range shooting, so I don't have to permanently modify my nice stocks. It really is a huge asset to maintaining good sight picture.
Looking forward to hearing results with this build when you get some range time!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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Another long-time boolit caster here watching with great interest. At the moment I am in there with 6 thinking you need a gas check bullet to get those velocities with any accuracy success, as that has been my experience to date. But I have never shot anything shaped like this projectile so am certainly ready to be proved wrong.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Griff »

I certainly wish you the best of luck Tutt! Brings back a lot of memories of that first trip to FoBD for me. Now that I have a rear sight (supposedly) capable of reaching that distance I want to make another trip! Need to get to casting!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by AJMD429 »

.

Actually, a lot of the external ballistics of your project remind me of what people discuss with the 300 Blackout cartridge. Sometimes it is better not to exceed the speed of sound because you don't have that transonic destabilization when you get out there and far away. Intuitively, we think the best cartridge for really reaching out is super fast, and that's probably true if your target is within the range you will still be supersonic, because you impart more energy, and the trajectory will be flatter, which means you're more likely to actually hit the target if you're not exact with knowing the range of the target. Of course the bench rest shooters who know the exact range don't care if they have a rainbow trajectory as long as the bullet is stable and goes the same place each time. Anyway, lots of interesting stuff and keep us posted...!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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Might want to buy a strap on cheek rest to allow you to keep your cheek contact with the buttstock when the sight is elevated enough for the long shots.
MM93, that is a very good idea! I have been shooting my 71/84 Mauser off a bag at 1538 for years using an artillery hold, but in my initial shooting of it years ago, I had to place the butt stock in my chest shooting in other positions. Darn good idea worth considering for the Savage Enfield though, thank you!

-Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

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Griff wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:28 pm I certainly wish you the best of luck Tutt! Brings back a lot of memories of that first trip to FoBD for me. Now that I have a rear sight (supposedly) capable of reaching that distance I want to make another trip! Need to get to casting!
Griff, I am planning to be there over Easter Break this year. Would love to see you again. That was a memorable experience having you there years ago. If I don't have the 303 Brit project ready, I will still have my 11mm Mauser available to shoot at 1538. That load really proved itself, yet again, last Spring, under terrible, terrible wind conditions. That 505 grain projectile at a modest 1150 fps hit the target, more than once IIRC, in some of the most bizarre wind conditions I have ever seen.

I can give you the dates tomorrow and you can tell me if you might be able to make it. Would be great to see you again.

-Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

earlmck wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:38 pm Another long-time boolit caster here watching with great interest. At the moment I am in there with 6 thinking you need a gas check bullet to get those velocities with any accuracy success, as that has been my experience to date. But I have never shot anything shaped like this projectile so am certainly ready to be proved wrong.
Earl, pros and cons to every design. I have the smartest people in the country working on this in IMHO. How that happened, someone will have to explain to me some day.

What does seem to matter, is that sometimes a slower moving bullet, has more time to stabilize after it goes subsonic. So by using a faster super-sonic bullet, it has less time to stabilize before reaching the target. So bullet velocity, and range to target matters. So do the idea of using a flat based, gas checked bullet, which is the norm.

Obviously, a boat tailed bullet has some significant advantages in BC. If I shoot it at 1600 fps, which I can (and you could too with Quick Load) develop a load that does that,

it will have plenty of time to stabilize. I already have most of the load worked out with Blue Dot.

This is what we have seen at FoBD, that modest moving bullets in velocity, tend to do better at extreme range. No scientific measurement here, just what we (actually 'they" have seen") I defer to their expertise, but I will have to say I was astounded at the last shoot in April of last year, that my 505 grain 11mm bullet, in some of the worst imaginable wind conditions hit the target with an extremely modest velocity of 1160 fps from the barrel.

And that bullet is not so nearly as well balanced as the one we created for the 303 Brit project.

I think Six is correct, it is going to take more to get this bullet on target at 1538 yards, which is why I went to all the trouble to design this bullet in the first place.

It's smaller, and lighter. It needs to balance better, and it balances better than almost any bullet out there. Round nose bullets work the best at extreme long range. McPherson is adamant about that. Not just him, but others on the team too.

The boat tail design, might add even more ballistic efficiency. We shall see.

Kind regards to all,

-Tutt-
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by earlmck »

My worry is that 1600 fps is not a modest velocity with a non-gas checked bullet. How would the ballistics look at 1400 to 1500 fps? That's about max I expect of my plain-based bullets with accuracy. And you might get that 1600 fps in good shape with powder-coating instead of conventional lube. Just some thoughts in case the first try at 1600 fps doesn't looks good. And I hope you have a Star lube-sizer, though I guess you could make a little "bootie" to keep lube from gobbing up in the tail. If you do have a Star sizer there is a fellow who goes by "lathesmith" on the "castboolits" web site who will make you a die of your chosen diameter and put the lube holes in whatever number and spacing you ask him to do a perfect one-pass lube-size on that bullet.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Earl, I might be able to slow it down some more with the 259 grain custom bullet vs the 215 grain Buffalo Arms bullet used previously at 1600 fps. I have not crunched the numbers yet. For the original load, it was between Red Dot and Blue Dot. And the Blue Dot load was the better with the 215 grain bullet at 1600 fps. But the 1600 fps yielded one really good result, and that the staff height was an almost a perfect need 50% more height to do the job. And we verified that over the week I was there at 2 different ranges in CO. So, we shall see, but I think this new bullet will work, and I will just have to sight it in as I do any load at different ranges. But, for right now, I am thinking the custom bullet at 1600 fps, and will have to adjust for longer ranges and keep a "brain book" or "dope book" of how it hits, will work. Yes, McPherson also wanted me to slow it down even further, but with the 215 grain load, it was not really possible. It might be possible to do so with this new, heavier bullet. I'm not ruling that out yet. But the 1600 fps mark also worked very well, and probably would too going into the future.

Thank you Earl!

-Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Well, just an update. I finally found a compromise that will work. Actually it works even better. Bernie Rowles at Old West Moulds agreed to do it for me with round lube grooves. These are easier to cut than the original beveled design, and as it turned out, what McPherson really wanted in the first place. The sharp edged lube groove design just make releasing the bullet harder from the mould. It will take a while but it is moving forward and that's all I can ask for during these times. It will be a 2 cavity mould as well, and Bernie has to make a longer aluminum block to do that. When its done, it goes to Matt at Matt's bullets to cast it as I think I said. Its an exciting project and I am looking forward to testing it. A round flat nose version would be interesting for hunting because the bullet weight is so high....

-Tutt
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Tutt, the .303 British is a noble cartridge. This is a wonderful experiment.
Just this past weekend, I found a couple of cases in the brass bin at the range where I work marked "W.R.A. 1943 .303." I can't help but wonder if this wasn't Lend-Lease ammo made for England by Winchester.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by 1894cfan »

Just curious, anybody ever try shooting that far with a Win. 94 30WCF? :shock: :o
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

I haven't seen it myself, I doubt it could really be done consistently. I have seen it done one time with the 303 Brit but the following year under different conditions the bullet was unstable to the point we could not even see where they were hitting. I suspect the same would be for the 30WCF. -Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Ray Newman »

Tutt: interesting campaign you are embarking on. I wish you success.

Does the front sight or the barrel have a spirit level to prevent “cant”? For those Not-In-The-Know about “cant”, see: https://www.chuckhawks.com/canting.htm

Speaking about a 1-mile shoot, there also is the Wasserburger Mile – Black Powder, lead bullets, and iron sights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmSHobmGDew

Results of the 2021 Wasserburger Mile shoot:
https://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/view ... hp?t=28281
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Ray, years ago I and my young daughter were curling back toward Denver from the Black Hills after a long road trip, and somewhere outside of Lusk, Wyoming, I saw a sign that said Wasserberger Ranch, and I turned to Ellie and said, I know that name from talking to Kenny on the Internet. 8)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by oldAG »

.303 British.
Long range? Oh yeh.
Iron sights? You bet.
Lobbing sights at 3,000 yds?
Check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOw9Q6bovs
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Bill in Oregon »

AG, I was impressed by that shooting in that wind with volley sights! 8)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Ray Newman wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:30 pm Tutt: interesting campaign you are embarking on. I wish you success.

Does the front sight or the barrel have a spirit level to prevent “cant”? For those Not-In-The-Know about “cant”, see: https://www.chuckhawks.com/canting.htm

Speaking about a 1-mile shoot, there also is the Wasserburger Mile – Black Powder, lead bullets, and iron sights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmSHobmGDew

Results of the 2021 Wasserburger Mile shoot:
https://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/view ... hp?t=28281
Ray, its Tutt or Andy. I won't permanently modify the front sight of this rifle. It's simply too pristine. I won't make any permanent changes to the rifle for this project, so I am limited by my decision and the historical value of the rifle. The rear sight adaption to a Kelley Soule sight has pretty much already been done by Randy Arnt, a member of the Shootists and a remarkable machinist.

http://kelleysights.com/SouleSights.php

Thank you Ray for your interest. Will send you a PM and have done so.

-Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Old Savage »

Just wondering, if you are going to replicate the shot shouldn’t you do it under the conditions he did it? Just wondering. ;-)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Very good question Old Friend aka Old Savage. The point is Tym's loads were military loads in his much earlier generation Enfield. I will have to ask him about it again, it was many years ago. What I am trying to do, is not replicate but provide a bullet and load that can accurately hit a target at 1538 yards much more accurately and with some consistency under different weather conditions and elevation all the time. I think this "balanced" and heavy weight bullet can do it with the knowledge that I have. But maybe it will not work out, but fun experiment. I am sort of confident that it will work out though! That is my goal. -Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by Griff »

Just can't believe sometimes that it's been so long since that initial venture out to FOBD! Wishing you absolute best with this project. I'd love to be there and see you accomplish it! It's fun to answer questions no else asks!!!
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Griff, I'm taking very early retirement at age 55 to be with family and friends while they still live. Torkelson is 78 now, just had a birthday. The range is different from when you and I were there originally. Its actually better now, except when I have to shoot my 375 H & H Ackley long, the concrete is not long enough for what I need to space my feet out to handle the recoil. Other than that, its still there for now, but not forever as all things change.

Next year Spring or Summer maybe????

We are all aging out. Time to get busy making plans! Would love to see you my friend!

-Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

I thought I had finally found a mold maker who could do this design, but I may have been mistaken. Waiting to hear back. -Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by AJMD429 »

CowboyTutt wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:32 pm
But 1500+ yards with a 30 caliber? ......you need more mass....and a lot more velocity for shooting that far....----002
Hey my friend, first off, length of this bullet is maximized for the twist. That decision was on me. The weight is what it would be. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but what McPherson has seen is that when the velocities are too high to begin with, when the bullet goes trans-sonic, and subsonic, it can often destabilize. It is not a particularly scientific and measured discussion based upon data, but what he has seen. And what he has seen is that slower moving bullets do better when going subsonic.

This might be because the bullet has more time to stabilize after it goes subsonic before it hits the target, if it is well balanced. This bullet is extremely well balanced so hope for the best. At ranges beyond 1538 yards, I have to wonder if the Varget load might be the better one at a predicted 1900 fps, which is the ragged edged of a non hard cast bullet.

There are all these theories out there, what McPherson offers is actual experience shooting so many different rifles and loads at extreme distance. Even he is the first to admit, it doesn't work until you test it.

Regards,

-Tutt
Plus, look at the people shooting 6.5 mm, 7mm, and the not-that-much-bigger 338's at very long ranges. Seems like the key is the long, streamlined, heavy-for-caliber bullets will maximize long-range potential if spun fast enough to stabilize, within whatever diameter/caliber you select. The bigger ones do have a clear advantage, but why do things the easy way... :wink:
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by AJMD429 »

CowboyTutt wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:41 pmIts actually better now, except when I have to shoot my 375 H & H Ackley long, the concrete is not long enough for what I need to space my feet out to handle the recoil.
That sounds like what would become the 375 Ruger...is it similar...?
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by barbarossa »

Interesting project.One of my favourite rifles is this Ruger no 1 in 303 brit
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by 2ndovc »

barbarossa wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:29 am Interesting project.One of my favourite rifles is this Ruger no 1 in 303 brit
I really wish I'd bought one of those when they came out.


Andy,
Looking forward to the end product with your new bullet. My gunsmith is still working on my P-14. Hoping he's done soon, we started on it last winter.

jb 8)
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by earlmck »

CowboyTutt wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:29 pm I thought I had finally found a mold maker who could do this design, but I may have been mistaken. Waiting to hear back. -Tutt
Well dang, Andy. A bunch of us want to see you do this thing. Was Tom at Accurate Moulds not able to do the job? I'd have sure thought he could get 'er done.
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

Thanks Guys, it turns out that Tom at Accurate is not only limited in making a round nose, which is no big deal, but his bullet length is limited to 1.375, and my bullet is 1.5 inches long, so going to keep looking....again! Bummer, -Tutt
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Re: Project 303 Brit at 1538 yards

Post by CowboyTutt »

A Ruger #1 chambered in 303 Brit would offer some real interesting opportunities in this cartridge as you could load it very hot. The brass may not withstand it much, but it would be a real hum dinger for sure! -Tutt
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