OT - Texas Open Carry petition news [update: 20K+ sigs!]

[Texican]

From the Fort Worth Star Telegram:
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/v-prin ... 15977.html

Posted on Mon, Jun. 23, 2008
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state


By ANNA M. TINSLEY
atinsley@star-telegram.com
If Duane Suddeth had his way, he could strap on a handgun and wear it — anytime, anywhere — without concealing it.

That day has not come in Texas, but the 42-year-old Bedford man is among thousands hoping it is on its way.

"This is the public’s right," Suddeth said. "Whether they choose to exercise that or not is up to them."

Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view.

Suddeth is among a group of residents wanting to change that who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement.

Some say it harks back to constitutional rights and frontier days when settlers carried their weapons where everyone could see them.

"It was considered part of everyday life back then," said John Pierce, co-founder of http://www.OpenCarry.org, a champion of the effort. "The concealed-carry part was what was looked at with disdain."

In Texas, where residents may carry concealed handguns if they have a permit, more than 3,500 people have signed an online petition asking Gov. Rick Perry and the Legislature to make Texas an open-carry state.

"Cowboys and Indians, and the Alamo — and many just assumed that Texas was an open-carry state," wrote Gary Williams, one of many Texans advocating for gun law change. "Clearly, there are some changes that need to be made."

Gun safety advocates aren’t so sure.

"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."

The open-carry effort

Many states such as Texas do have concealed handgun rules and permits in place.

But many also have open-carry rules, unlike Texas, along with New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.

Dozens of states either issue licenses for open carry or allow the practice without any license, according to the Web site.

"The concealed-carry movement that swept the country in past decades has been a great benefit to law-abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves in an uncertain world," Pierce said. "But we are trying to re-educate people that open carry is . . . a basic gun right."

The Texas Citizens Defense League, of which Williams and Suddeth are members, is trying to get the word out.

Part of that is the petition that asks that all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it openly, except in places prohibited by law.

"I can’t count the times I have been in some discussion about open carry in some Northern state . . . and somebody says, 'Hey, this is not . . . Texas,’ " said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.

"And I respond, 'Thankfully you are correct, as open carry is banned in Texas.’ "

Texas reaction

Any change to the law would come from the Texas Legislature, which is why the petition is to lawmakers and Perry.

The issue is not on the governor’s plate yet, a spokeswoman said.

"The governor is very supportive of conceal and carry laws," said Kristi Piferrer, a Perry spokeswoman. "Expanding that to open carry probably will take a lot of public deliberation and legislative guidance."

Some law enforcers say they would be leery of an open-carry policy in Texas.

"I really think it would cause a lot of uneasiness in the community, with people seeing so many guns," Tarrant County Constable Sergio DeLeon said. "It could create more problems than it would solve."

Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, who as a state senator helped make concealed-carry law in 1995, said he doesn’t believe that open carry would create any problems.

While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.

"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, that’s unusual.’ "

"You never know"

Suddeth, an IT professional who does some travel for work, said he would like to openly carry a loaded handgun. In the past year, Suddeth said there was an elderly woman attacked, cars broken into, a home broken into and several assaults in his Bedford neighborhood.

"You never know when crime is going to happen," he said. "I think eventually we will see open carry in Texas.

"Eventually, it will happen."

Online: http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html

Open-carry states Texas is one of six states that either do not allow or highly restrict the open carrying of handguns in public. The others are New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina, as well as Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.

More than a dozen states require a license for open carry, from Utah to Mississippi to Massachusetts. Eleven more, from Vermont to Arizona, allow it but don’t require licenses. Still more generally permit it but offer various restrictions. And two states, California and Illinois, allow loaded handguns to be carried in rural areas, according to the Web site.

"OpenCarry.org believes that 'a right unexercised is a right lost,’ and increasingly gun owners are agreeing," according to the Web site. "It’s time gun carry comes out of the closet in America."

Source: http://www.OpenCarry.org

Y'all sign up, now...

[deerwhacker444]

In the late 90's or early 00's I was with some friends and family on vacation passing thru Arizona. We were at a supermarket buying some stuff when this weird looking guy came in wearing a white t-shirt and profusely sweating and had an open 1911 on his belt. It was obvious, he wasn't Law Enforcement and I was just about ready to find something to dive behind before the bullets started flying. I didn't know at the time that AZ was open carry. That nearly scared the !#@%& out of me. Turns out, he was just a regular JOE coming off the job and picking up some groceries, but I remember the effect seeing that open carry had. I'm sure there would be less bad guys doing bad things if everyone was open carry.

[J Miller]

Having lived in AZ for 40 years I'm quite familiar and comfortable with open carry. It bothers me not one bit. As a matter of fact I prefer it to concealed carry.


Joe

[505stevec]

New Mexico has open carry. We had this before the concealed carry law passed. I think it is great

[Andrew]

I don't see myself open-carrying ever, but, I do not/will not hinder those that wan't to.

[rimrock]

+1 to Andrew except that I prefer open carry when hunting.

[Andrew]

+1 to Andrew except that I prefer open carry when hunting.

+ 1 I wasn't even thinking about carrying while in the brush, I forgot that counts too.

[RSY]

Unfortunately it takes more than a law, itself.

Louisiana is an open-carry state, but while I lived there I never dared do so in downtown New Orleans because law enforcement there is largely ignorant of the law. I probably would have been ventilated in short order by an LEO on Canal St.

In fact, as some may recall, on the old board in a similar thread I queried one of our "Shootists" who was/is also a captain in my local sheriff's department there in LA. I asked him to what degree his junior deputies were made aware of the open-carry status of Louisiana. He never gave a direct answer, but the impression I got was...none. It is beyond incomprehensible that LEOs on the street are kept in the dark on the law of the land they are entrusted to enforce. As a result, open carry is at your own peril.

So, apparently, unless law enforcement thinks it is a "good idea," you really don't have a right, in practical terms.

Scott

[O.S.O.K.]

Thank you for posting - I just added my "signature" to the petition - now over 10,000!

[O.S.O.K.]

Currently at 10414 - it's really cookin now. If it keeps up at this rate, it'll be way up there.

I personally copied this web site on 4 other boards with a message urging Texans to sign the petition.

[Texican]

Currently at 10414 - it's really cookin now. If it keeps up at this rate, it'll be way up there.

I personally copied this web site on 4 other boards with a message urging Texans to sign the petition.

Much Obliged, Pardner.

Too another post: should the law change here, I'm sure it will garner enough press to where local LEO's will hear about it. Still should it come to pass, I might just have a mini laminated photocopy of the statute made up to carry with me...

Beyond belt carry in the woods and on the trail, having a legal option to pack openly would simplify my wardrobe during the 100+ heat and 100% humidity of July and August down here.

[awp101]

Too another post: should the law change here, I'm sure it will garner enough press to where local LEO's will hear about it.

Unless the DA decides he doesn't want to play along like the Houston DA (and other cities that escape me right now) who didn't like the change in rules for carrying in a vehicle. According to the news reports the LEOs were told to detain the weapon and person even if they were in the right by state law simply because the DAs didn't like the change.

[Texican]

Too another post: should the law change here, I'm sure it will garner enough press to where local LEO's will hear about it.

Unless the DA decides he doesn't want to play along like the Houston DA (and other cities that escape me right now) who didn't like the change in rules for carrying in a vehicle. According to the news reports the LEOs were told to detain the weapon and person even if they were in the right by state law simply because the DAs didn't like the change.

Thankfully that was clarified last year. Pardon my non-legalese: Originally the change in the law with regard to the definition of 'traveling' with a firearm offered a defense against 'prosecution'. You could still be charged but had a defense. The Houston DA (Chuck Rosenthal, Rep.) chose to publicly state that he would continue to charge those traveling with firearms in their cars. This would force them to still appear in court (with all the required expenses) only to have the charge dismissed. The Texas Legislature then (the next year) revised the statue to provide protection from even being charged and then we (city of Houston) threw out Rosenthal. Now a non-criminal may have a concealed gun in the car; no permit required. Happy Ending.

Update:
15689 Total Signatures! (as of 9:30pm on 6/28/08)

[awp101]

Thankfully that was clarified last year. Pardon my non-legalese: Originally the change in the law with regard to the definition of 'traveling' with a firearm offered a defense against 'prosecution'. You could still be charged but had a defense. The Houston DA (Chuck Rosenthal, Rep.) chose to publicly state that he would continue to charge those traveling with firearms in their cars. This would force them to still appear in court (with all the required expenses) only to have the charge dismissed. The Texas Legislature then (the next year) revised the statue to provide protection from even being charged and then we (city of Houston) threw out Rosenthal. Now a non-criminal may have a concealed gun in the car; no permit required. Happy Ending.

OK, thanks for the clarification! I thought it was more recent than that and I had never heard Austin put their collective foot down.

Good job on tossing the bum out too!

[Duff L Bagg]

Too another post: should the law change here, I'm sure it will garner enough press to where local LEO's will hear about it.

Unless the DA decides he doesn't want to play along like the Houston DA (and other cities that escape me right now) who didn't like the change in rules for carrying in a vehicle. According to the news reports the LEOs were told to detain the weapon and person even if they were in the right by state law simply because the DAs didn't like the change.

Another one was Ronnie Earle Travis County D/A.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I wonder how long it will be before Marion Hammer takes this up in Florida? Maybe she and her crew will wait and see how it goes in Texas.

[RKrodle]

15915

[Hagler]

Unfortunately it takes more than a law, itself.

Louisiana is an open-carry state, but while I lived there I never dared do so in downtown New Orleans because law enforcement there is largely ignorant of the law. I probably would have been ventilated in short order by an LEO on Canal St.

In fact, as some may recall, on the old board in a similar thread I queried one of our "Shootists" who was/is also a captain in my local sheriff's department there in LA. I asked him to what degree his junior deputies were made aware of the open-carry status of Louisiana. He never gave a direct answer, but the impression I got was...none. It is beyond incomprehensible that LEOs on the street are kept in the dark on the law of the land they are entrusted to enforce. As a result, open carry is at your own peril.

So, apparently, unless law enforcement thinks it is a "good idea," you really don't have a right, in practical terms.

Scott

Scott,

I have not forgotten that discussion. It is very saddening to know that following the law will make me "suspicious", and cause me to be repeatedly harrassed doing absolutely nothing illegal. Remember, we have been told by N.O.P.D., and by our esteemed, afore-mentioned coleague, that the sight of a gun on non-LEO equals "criminal". Remember, also, that LEOs need to be careful, because they do NOT know who they can trust. Of course, they cannot trust anyone they see with a gun, right? ...I mean, in this day & age, and all, you know?...

When I did business with American Arms, in Chalmette, I often saw some of their employess wearing sidearms around the store. I enquired about this, and was told they could do so only inside of the store, because wearing that gun outdoors would get them arrested.

I DO NOT plan to test this perfectly legal activity anytime soon.

Shawn

[Hagler]

More Louisiana antics, from a blog, 2006:

http://libertyzone.blogspot.com/2006/02 ... court.html

Shawn

[Texican]

Update: 20088 Total Signatures as of 9:44 a.m. Texas Time on 7/11/08

Let's keep this going.

[O.S.O.K.]

20148 7/11 8:00PM Lookin good!