.357 Buffalo Bore vs. Leverevolution

X Wolf · Post by **X Wolf** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:56 pm

Hi,

I'm new here and I have some ammo questions. I have an 1894C which I'm very happy with and I'm thinking of adding an 1894CB, I like the octagonal 20" bbl. I want to put away some more ammo for them and I am interested in knowing which would be my best bet for general purpose ammo eg; paper punching and SD. I'm interested in as flat shooting a round as possible and hope to be able to achieve decent accuracy and energy at 150 yds (if that's possible).

These are the 3 loads I am considering:

Hornady .357 Leverevolution
Buffalo Bore 158 gr. Speer Unicore
Buffalo Bore 125 gr. Speer Unicore

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

George

P.S. I have been shooting for about 50 years now.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:01 pm

LeverEvolution is thus far an unproven round... and its terminal ballistics don't impress me. It might reach out to 150yds, but I'm not keen on its effect out there.

I don't have much experience with the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. Speer Unicore
Buffalo Bore 125 gr. Speer Unicore , but I DO have experience with the 180gr BB and the equivelent load I make up myself.

The 180gr hard cast WFN at 1800+fps WILL crater a deer at 110 yds. I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting it beyond that, but it is absolutely deadly there.

Really, IMO if you intend on shooting larger game out to 150yds you need a different gun...

This is coming from a guy whose "go-to" gun is his .357 rossi...

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:16 pm

If you want 150 yd performance I definitely agree with OI that you need to go with 180gr bullets with performance ammo or good reloads.

X Wolf · Post by **X Wolf** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:23 pm

Thank you kindly for your input. I should probably clarify that I don't hunt anymore and I'm not interested in reloading. The main use would be for paper punching and Self Defense.

George

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:34 pm

Then you don't want LeverEvolution... unless you have a massive bank account.

And really, the same goes for any of the Buffalo Bore ammo. It's all lovely, but PRICY.

If all you want to do is punch Paper and Predators, then plain-jane 158gr SJSP will be plenty good... and you woun't have to spend more than a dollar a pop to do it.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:36 pm

I have both rifles - haven't tried any of those but if you aren't hunting you can likely do best with whatever your rifle shoots the best with mine it is various 158s and one seems to do the best with PMC and the other, the C, seems the best with Winchester.

Batmann · Post by **Batmann** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:11 pm

You might want to consider Double Tap ammo. They make a very good .357 loading, but the 158 gr is more of a hunting round and the 125 gr is more of a SD round.

crs · Post by **crs** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:42 pm

As previously stated, shop around for standard ammo and find out which one your rifle likes best.
From my experience with .357 in a rifle and pistol. the 110 and 125 grain hollow points are devastating on four legged varmints and should work well on two legged ones also, unless you have to shoot through heavy clothing and coats and then a jacketed flat point may be best. Either should have a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps or greater from a rifle and shoot pretty flat till they run out of steam.

Coldfingers · Post by **Coldfingers** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:11 pm

My 1894C sure likes the AE 158 JSP's. Enough so that I have laid up a thousand of em over time "just in case"

I took a nice black bear last fall with the BB 180's. They are SPENDY but worth it when hunting critters a tad bigger than recomended

The Federal Cast Core 180's shoot well also. Mine will not chamber the Cor-Bon 200grainers but I believe a little fine tuning will fix that problem

For plinkin & Paper, find the cheapest off the shelf ammo that you can get to shoot well. Any intruder hit with same will probably stop, drop, and roll.

I am still playing with light weight charges and cheap cast bullets looking for the perfect small game loading for the rifle.

Having a durn good time too!

Enjoy,

Scotty

crs · Post by **crs** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:20 pm

Coldfingers;
One of my old loading manuals recommended using FMJ 9mm for small game and turkeys. I have never tried it, but it makes sense.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:43 pm

crs wrote:Coldfingers;
One of my old loading manuals recommended using FMJ 9mm for small game and turkeys. I have never tried it, but it makes sense.

Accuracy will suffer greatly.

9mm bullets are .355-.356 barrel grooves usually .354-.355

.357's are .357-.358 barrel grooves usually .358- .360

They will work close range, but what will the group look like at 50 yards

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:35 pm

Did anyone mention that self-defense at 150 yards is called combat?

The problem is that the ammo that's useful for anything at 150 yards is going to overpenetrate like crazy out of a carbine in a real SD scenario, say a home invasion.

I used to think that 38spcl+p was a good carbine SD round until I tried some and had a double feed from the mag and jammed action. Not good in a home invasion scenario. So I'm also looking for what I need. Right now it's gonna be the revolver round, 158g lead hp, but that's gonna be a problem unless I line 'em up just right.

My carbine loves white box winchester 110g jhp out to 100 yards, never shot it any farther than that, but it's accurate. That should be a good SD load, but it's hot coming out of the carbine and over-penetration might be a problem. Depends on the bullet.

X Wolf · Post by **X Wolf** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:54 am

Thank's for all the replies! My main use will definitely not be "combat" I just want to enjoy target shooting primarily and secondarily be able to use my rifles for self defense if that scenario ever occurs and I sure hope that never happens. I only mentioned 150 yds. because I am used to bolt actions with bottle neck cartridges and 150 yds. with those is not a great distance. I need to remember that I'm dealing with a lever action rifle that shoots a handgun round. I guess the ammo that I inquired about would be more suited to hunting at 100 yds. max. so...probably not a good choice for my needs.

Thank's again,

George

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:32 am

You really have to try several brands in your gun, and see what is most accurate out of it. My 1894 liked Magtech 158 gr very well, almost as good was the Remington 158 gr, and very good also was the Fiocci ball ammo. It didn't like Winchester, American Eagle, or PMC too well.

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:55 am

I was checking the Forum articles for one by Paco, and found this http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... rature.htm

Good, but not the one I was thinking of -- He talks about .357 Lever range, loads, and using 9mm bullets out past (?) 100 yards on small varmits. The article I'm remembering must be in his book on CD - available on the Forum's home page.

(I am sure I remember Remington selling a 9mm load that used the 125 gr scalloped SJHP .357 bullet.... I have a batch of handloads duplicating that round and they do fine in my 5906 & Hi Power.)

And on the other end, other posts have mentioned using jacketed bullets a couple thousandths smaller than the bore without problem for hunting/ defense accuracy.

So I dunno, I always wonder about the old saying that a jacketed bullet a couple thousandths smaller won't work for non bullseye accuracy...

Gryphon Black · Post by **Gryphon Black** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:29 am

A bit late on this, sorry. Haven't reviewed the list for a while...

The thing about a pistol round in a rifle is that it moves a lot faster out the muzzle because of "time on the burn". And since we two legged monkeys have shallow chest cavities and thin skin, a good defense round would need to stop fast, delivering all it's energy without shooting through. Easiest way to do that is with a light bullet with a hollow point. Those cost a lot more, but you use a lot less of them.
Plinking rounds only need to shoot flat for easy accuracy, then make a hole in the target. Two different needs, really.
The lever action .357 rifle is a very good choice for defense against bad guys, as the round is just about ballistically perefect for shutting down a human target without being overpowered. But most of the data is for pistols. I'd recommend Cor Bon Powerball 100gr for defense in a rifle, since they have a plastic ball in the hollow of the point to keep them from getting plugged by clothing on entry, and they have very light slugs. Feed reliability is important also, so full length .357 rounds are more adviseable than the shorter .38sp and for defense, you want the power anyway.
For targetry, give the 38s a try. They be cheap and easy to get, and they kick less too. I'd go with the heaviest bullet you can find that still shoots accurately, as the weight helps it carry out to the long ranges. If you don't really care about that, then just shoot every kind of ammo you can find till the gun tells you what it likes. Since they are all different, that's really all you can do.

Hope you have fun with it, and tell us what you find out!

Gryphon

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:01 am

I spent the first 2 years that I owned my 1894C finding sights I could use and deciding what ammo it liked...well, I liked, to shoot because I wanted one cartridge that I could use in both revolver and carbine.

The carbine shoots everything in the 125, 158, and 180 ranges very well, including the BB 158gr JHC. The BB stuff is a bit much for the revolver.

I haven't tried the LE, mainly because I haven't seen any, but it would have to be pretty good stuff for me to change over from what I know works. Additionally, I'm guessing that what I'm using propbably only costs about half as much as the LE is going to.

I finally selected the AE 158gr JSP as my go-to ammunition.

I've killed rabbits, coyotes, deer, hogs, and a bear with that bullet. I wouldn't be guessing by saying that it would handily put a man down.