Homemade slugs and rifled bores.

[TedH]

Got out to the range with tonight with my H&R Tracker II 12 ga and tried some of my home made slug loads. Shooting from my cylinder bore smoothie, my best loads are minute-of-pop can at 25 yards. Ok for my defense gun, but I want considerably better than that from this new 12 ga "rifle". I'd like to get that same kind of accuracy at least 50 yards with my slugs. My results tonight were no where near that.

I've got the Lee 1 oz mold, and the Lyman 525 mold that looks like a giant air rifle pellet. Would love to hear what combination of slug/wad/powder/hull works good for you. There is such a huge number of possible combinations I'd like to narrow it down some. I think the wad is going to be the main player here. The Lyman slug in a Winchester wad is easily pushed in the bore with the slightest resistance. I don't see how that's going to be gripping the rifling, and apparantly it wasn't as some of the holes in the target showed partly sideways hits.

[Mescalero]

TedH,
I am not making light of you and your endeavor, but according to Grizz ( and some others ) 200 yard hits on 18 " plates are doable all day long.
Although someday I will paint an 18 " square of cardboard black, and take a picture of it at 200 laser measured yards and see what it looks; I suspect it will look a lot different than that video.
If you are serious, I suggest you contact pete44ru, he recently had a rifled .12 guage H&R for sale in the classifieds, see what kind of experiences he had with it.

[TedH]

That is the same gun I now own. Pete said he only tried a small variety of sabot slugs and reported very good accuracy. I don't doubt that at all, but my home made slugs are a whole different ball game.

[Mescalero]

Can you buy sabots for use in this guage?
IE for you to hanload?

[Rusty]

Ted, I've never tried loading slugs, but would love to try if I ever get the time. You might try looking on shotgunworld.com as they have a separate slug forum.

[TedH]

Can you buy sabots for use in this guage?
IE for you to hanload?

Not interested in going that route. Would like to find an inexpensive way to produce my own reasonably accurate slugs.

[Blaine]

I've often wondered (stupidly?) if a RB in a lubed patch would work in a rifled shotgun barrel.....

[Grizz]

Ted

I think it was you who told me that .69 round ball fits in a shot cup. That's my slug for smoothbore.

It sounds like you are describing undersize projectiles in your rifled barrel. The same principles of cast in rifles should apply, a hard-ish slug that's a thou or two over groove diameter. Do you know what that dia is?

I think that, because of the wad structure of the shot shell undersize projectiles won't "bump up" the way that dead soft bullets will in 45/70, say.

It is noteable that slugs made for rifled bores are marked that way and differentiated from smoothbore slug loads, maybe a trial with commercial rifled bore slugs will help dial your load in.

Grizz

[TedH]

You are correct Grizz. There will be no bumping up to fit the bore since both the slugs I can make are made to fit inside a shot cup. The Lee mold does state that it's intended to be use in a rifled barrel. The "drive key" in the base of the slug is designed to make the slug grip the base of the shot cup and the wad is supposed to grip the rifling. I don't think my current combination of wad and slug is doing a very good job of imparting the spin on the slug. It could very well be that I'm trying to push them too hard and the plastic wads just aren't able to get the spin going in the shallow rifling. I'm going to pick out the tightest fitting combination of wad and slug and slow them down/reduce pressure, and try a faster powder for the next time out. These were shot with a heavy dose of Blue Dot which is the powder that will get the highest velocity in magnum loads. Might try some Unique, AA#5, and some HS6.

I would love to have a mold that didnt' require a shot cup. Like a full bore diameter cast bullet, like the Dixie Slugs. That might be the only way to get the accuracy I'm wanting, but I'll play with the ones I have for now.

[hfcable]

would be neat to know the actual bore diameter. i have an NEI mold that casts , IIRC, a 0.735 conical slug, that i have used in my pedersoli side by side 12 bore muzzle loading rifle.
if your bore diameter is the same , they might work for you without a shotcup. i have never tried them in any thing else.

i can dig some out of storage and send them your way if you want to try them.

it would likely kill quite well......on both ends of the gun.

[Grizz]

What is the twist rate and barrel length?

Although, since it is bullet length that determines the twisting needed, it may be less of a factor with those low bc slugs.

I am interested to hear how that works out for you.

[TedH]

It's a 24" barrel, but I do not know the twist rate. I haven't slugged it yet, but just measuring with a digital caliper on the inside of the muzzle it measures .732". hfcable, those sound like just the ticket. I'd be happy to buy a few from you to try out.

[hfcable]

It's a 24" barrel, but I do not know the twist rate. I haven't slugged it yet, but just measuring with a digital caliper on the inside of the muzzle it measures .732". hfcable, those sound like just the ticket. I'd be happy to buy a few from you to try out.

you dont need to buy them, i just need to figure out where they are, and i will start looking for them this weekend- i think i know.

just let me know where to send them !

[TedH]

NEI also makes this mold. If I end up buying a full caliber mold this could be the one.

734-570.jpg

That bullet loaded in some brass 12 ga. hulls would be a pretty neat thumper.

I'll PM you my mailing address hfcable. Thank you very much!

[hfcable]

NEI also makes this mold. If I end up buying a full caliber mold this could be the one.

734-570.jpg

That bullet loaded in some brass 12 ga. hulls would be a pretty neat thumper.

I'll PM you my mailing address hfcable. Thank you very much!

man, that slug would hammer any soft skinned creature !

[Nath]

My concern is with the powder Sir, Herco for me

N.

[Pete44ru]

.

Ted, I used only saboted slugs in the rifled-bore Tracker II, and got good accuracy out to 50yds.

Where I hunt deer with shotguns (shotgun-only area) , I can't see any further than 50yds, so never tested it @ a longer yardage.

In my experience, "normal", unprotected Foster-type slugs (which are great in a smoothbore) are not very accurate in a rifled bore.
My WAG is that the slugs simply strip out of the rifling.

IMO, I think if homemade/cast slugs are to be on the menu, then the gun would need to be treated like the .72 cal rifle it really is (or, treated like shooting any other lead boolits in any rifle), and use lubed slugs (aka: slugs with grease groove/s) @ moderate velocities.



.

[Nath]

if it is a size issue how about wrapping with paper or plumbers tape! If it improves things source a thicker wad (petals) like a steel graded one maybe!

N.

[hfcable]

if it is a size issue how about wrapping with paper or plumbers tape! If it improves things source a thicker wad (petals) like a steel graded one maybe!

N.

i have heard folks having good results with the teflon plumbers tape, and of course with the paper wrapping, though i have yet to try it....it is on my list of things to try one day.

[TedH]

if it is a size issue how about wrapping with paper or plumbers tape! If it improves things source a thicker wad (petals) like a steel graded one maybe!

N.

That's an idea Nath, but I'm afraid that the plastic of these hulls just can't take the strain involved here. I found some fired ones downrange, and they just blew out in pieces, petals ripped off etc. I think it's going to take lighter loads, or a much stouter wad material. I am reminded of the old Remington Accellerator rounds. The sabot in those was a very hard plastic, but then I guess we're just getting back to the sabot slugs. I think Pete is right, that I'm going to eventually just go with full caliber soft slugs, and have a .73 caliber rifle.

[hfcable]

if it is a size issue how about wrapping with paper or plumbers tape! If it improves things source a thicker wad (petals) like a steel graded one maybe!

N.

That's an idea Nath, but I'm afraid that the plastic of these hulls just can't take the strain involved here. I found some fired ones downrange, and they just blew out in pieces, petals ripped off etc. I think it's going to take lighter loads, or a much stouter wad material. I am reminded of the old Remington Accellerator rounds. The sabot in those was a very hard plastic, but then I guess we're just getting back to the sabot slugs. I think Pete is right, that I'm going to eventually just go with full caliber soft slugs, and have a .73 caliber rifle.

would brass shells, like the magtech cases, work, esp with the large cast conical slugs like i am going to send you? wow, that would be an interesting looking cartridge.......like the old winchester offering for the model 1887 lever action shotgun.

[Larkbill]

Check with Ballistic Products: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

They sell sabot supplies but also full bore projectiles and I think some molds. I'm sure they also have a very useful loading manual for slugs, and they sell the sort of old fashion wads you need for non-sabot loads.

[TedH]

would brass shells, like the magtech cases, work, esp with the large cast conical slugs like i am going to send you? wow, that would be an interesting looking cartridge.......like the old winchester offering for the model 1887 lever action shotgun.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Midway has some in stock, about a buck a piece. Thought about running out there at lunch and picking up a box of 25.

Thanks for the link Larkbill, I had forgot all about them.

[Larkbill]

You must live in the CoMo area. I know Midway discourages walk-in business, have never tried to stop in, but buy online quite a bit from them. I'm in St Peters, have friends near Harrisburg I shoot with once in a while.

[TedH]

Actually they don't discourage it. They recently put in an area with computers so you can just go there and place your order, and just wait while they fill your order and hand it to you. They usually have my orders filled in less than 30 minutes, but rather than sit there and wait, I will order when I get to work and run out and pick it up at lunch, since they are only about 5 miles from me.

[Larkbill]

That's good to know, may do that idea of ordering ahead to pick up.

[Nath]

I don't recommend the brass hulls unless you can near eliminate the free bore! I could cause havoc with ignition with out a strong crimp!
The brass hulls may work very well with black powder though!

Another thing to consider trying with plastic hulls is a fibre wad under the plastic shot cup! It eliminates any yaw on leaving the muzzle in the many plastic wad designs.

N.

[TedH]

You're right Nath, I think the fiber wads would help. I've also thought of the brass hull and black powder for no other reason than the cool factor.

[Pete44ru]

Actually they don't discourage it. They recently put in an area with computers so you can just go there and place your order, and just wait while they fill your order and hand it to you. They usually have my orders filled in less than 30 minutes, but rather than sit there and wait, I will order when I get to work and run out and pick it up at lunch, since they are only about 5 miles from me.

Just like "call-ahead seating" @ a National chain steak house................ .



.