OT- Jericho

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:49 am

I assume some of you watched the final episode last night. The theme at the end appears to be a second Civil War between Texas-Ohio and Cheyenne. I have a history question for you Texans. I remember reading something about Texas coming into the Union in a different manner than the other territories. Is it true they can form several states within their borders? Also, did the U.S. make any consessions as to their laws and rights as opposed to the other states? Could Texas, in fact, form their own country? What else is different about their admittance than the other states?

crs · Post by **crs** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:12 am

The answers are YES.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:17 am

Montana and California have the same right. It wasn't because they came into the union in a different way. It was because they were all very large states with small populations and it was realized that as they grew in population it might be more practical to sub-divide them for administrative efficiency.

Montana has not yet reached that size but the populace of the other two could actually benefit by dividing. For example if Texas and California divided into three states they would each have three times as many US Senators and would probably gain an extra Representative or two.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:48 pm

Texas charter for annexation provided authority for the Texas territories to be divided into 4 states.

Texas became a state in 1845 and lands of the Republic of Texas were relinquished to form portions of Kansas in 1861, Colorado in 1876, Oklahoma in 1907, and New Mexico in 1912.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:30 pm

I'll miss that show. And Sarah Connor, and Firefly. Bout the only things worth watching in decades. Almost a 'renaissance' for a while there.

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:03 pm

I had heard that Texas, alone, reserved the right to secede from the US, but that seems to be in error, as described here:

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp

There was also some talk there about the ability to divide into multiple states, maybe with some benefits for Texas (like more Senators). But, does that still apply, or is that what they did when they contributed land to NM, OK, etc.?

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:15 pm

alnitak wrote:There was also some talk there about the ability to divide into multiple states, maybe with some benefits for Texas (like more Senators). But, does that still apply, or is that what they did when they contributed land to NM, OK, etc.?

I am led to believe that the lands of the Republic become State of Texas ceded to the other several states are the divisions referred to in the Annexation documents, as such, it would follow that the state no longer has this administrative option available.

But you might ask ScottT or Charles...

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:27 pm

BAGTIC wrote:Montana and California have the same right. It wasn't because they came into the union in a different way. It was because they were all very large states with small populations and it was realized that as they grew in population it might be more practical to sub-divide them for administrative efficiency.

Montana has not yet reached that size but the populace of the other two could actually benefit by dividing. For example if Texas and California divided into three states they would each have three times as many US Senators and would probably gain an extra Representative or two.

Actually, Texas and California were the only "Independent Republics" to join the Union. In theory, they can suceed. Probably one hell of a (court) fight, as Texas already tried to do it militarily and lost. Heck, here in California, a small city decided to join Los Angels and the incorporation deal included the right to suceed. Guess what. Courts say it doesn't count. Hell, the courts can rule any way they want, and you're stuck with it.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:52 pm

Is Sarah Connor Terminator show not coming back?

Is Jericho officially done for too?

I liked both of those.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:17 pm

First off Texas joined the Confederacy, not with the majority of its citizens but with the majority of it's legislators. Not even the Governor was for sucession and remember the ruling class of Texas at the time was all upper crust land barrons, and since they could only vote they didn't care much for the wishes of the majority. That being said, remember what actually started the hostilities...South Carolina firing on Ft. Sumter, a federal (i.e. US Government facility, therefore owned by ALL states). That was an act of war and the federal government had every right to defend itself, the other states that declared war on the US Government as allies to South Carolina became enemies of the rest of the country by association. If I am not mistaken, Texas was the last state to declare it's support for the Confederacy and only under heavy duress.

As far as today goes, Texas could not expect it's current economic status as a independent nation. Even though they have enough natural resources in the form of oil, most other manufacturing is given to them from inustrial leaders based elsewhere...eventually, probably a couple of generations hence, Texas would end up looking very similar economic wise to Mexico. California is probably the only state that could stand alone as a primary world power, very akin to the status and the equal to Canada, but with a larger population. California actually has more oil than Texas, produces more food products than any other area in the world, still has natural resources like iron, bauxite, etc......but we could cripple it by shutting off the one thing they need more than anything...water.

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:52 pm

Maybe if we put the liberals on the west side of the San Andreas Fault and seperate it from there?Hmmmm

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:57 pm

505stevec wrote:Maybe if we put the liberals on the west side of the San Andreas Fault and seperate it from there?Hmmmm

I and a whole bunch of others like me are as "conservative" as anyone else. And we live a far west of that fault, like on the beach, as you can get. Once again, do not cast all Californians in the same light. It' sorta like saying all Texans where cowboy hats, or all Montana/Wyoming types are brokeback sorts. Hell, Reagan was the governor of California.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:59 pm

You guys have my curiosity piqued big time.

I usually only watch the History, Military, National geographic, and news channels. Things like that. Oh, and whatever movies my son has tivoed for
me off of HBO.

This Jericho sounds good, I'll have to look for it in the record store.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:25 am

"Actually, Texas and California were the only "Independent Republics" to join the Union. In theory, they can suceed. Probably one hell of a (court) fight, as Texas already tried to do it militarily and lost. Heck, here in California, a small city decided to join Los Angels and the incorporation deal included the right to suceed. Guess what. Courts say it doesn't count. Hell, the courts can rule any way they want, and you're stuck with it.[/quote]

Vermont was also an independent republic.

Actually all states have the right to secede. They just don't have the right to wage war against the USA.

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:05 pm

1) Jericho really surprised me with the last episode. It made a blatant pro 2nd Amendment statement. Something I thought I'd never hear from Hollywood, let alone CBS. No wonder the execs tried to kill it last season. The fact that Texas got to be the hero in the end was a happy bonus! Hopefully, the fan base will bring it back again like last year, maybe on cable. I'll be writing for its continuation;

2) Do y'all know the story of the Conch Republic's successful secession? Check it out: http://www.conchrepublic.com/

3) Firefly should have stayed.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:37 pm

Firefly and Jericho both had more than one episode promoting personal freedom and pro-gun messages. I'm sure a lot of you guys would really like Firefly if you haven't tried it. Lasted one season, the whole thing's in a set and then there's the movie Serenity.

Jericho lasted a season and a half, this last 7 episodes was a 'gift' to the noisy fans.

I have no idea what the official status of Sarah Connor is but I'd be shocked if they spring for a non-'reality' show to continue. Just doesn't pay to make 'real' shows when you can pay 2% of the cost and get better ratings with "Survivor" and "Dancing with the Stars" type shows.

For now, of course. In a generation somebody will 'invent' the drama.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:47 pm

BAGTIC wrote:"Actually, Texas and California were the only "Independent Republics" to join the Union. In theory, they can suceed. Probably one hell of a (court) fight, as Texas already tried to do it militarily and lost. Heck, here in California, a small city decided to join Los Angels and the incorporation deal included the right to suceed. Guess what. Courts say it doesn't count. Hell, the courts can rule any way they want, and you're stuck with it.

Vermont was also an independent republic.

Actually all states have the right to secede. They just don't have the right to wage war against the USA.[/quote]

Live and learn. Didn't know about Vermont. When was the "Republic" formed, and how long before it joined the Union. California and Texas really only became independent republics so they could join the US without involving the US directly in a major war with Mexico. Neither was "independent" very long.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:49 pm

Firefly is really just a "westen" in space. Heck, even the firstmate carries a lever gun ala "Wanted Dead Or Alive".

blackhawk44 · Post by **blackhawk44** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:51 pm

Jeepnik, while California was a "republic" for only a few days (less than 30), Texas was fully recognized as an independent nation for ten years with elected presidents and congress' and international relations.

Old Time Hunter said "California actually has more oil than Texas". According the figures publish by the US Government in December 2006, Texas has 23% of US oil reserves while California has 16%.