Puma 92 feeding problems - load cast bullets deeper?

[pomofo]

I've been having problems getting my Puma 92 454 Casull carbine to feed full-length 454 hardcast lead rounds because of the wide meplat, even after returning it for warranty repair. After a bit of experimentation with different lengths, I found that the cartridges would cycle at an OAL of 1.705", which will require trimming of the brass and deeper seating of the bullets by .065" from the recommended OAL. After measuring the available powder space I'll be losing approximately 9-11% of the normal case capacity, depending on the size of the bullet.

The available powder space ends up being around the same as a 45 Colt case, and if I reduce the Casull load data by ~10% it's about the same as the 45 Colt data, powder is H110. Right now I'm trying to shoot the 335 and 395 grain Cast Performance bullets, but I have some 405 & 355 grain bullets from Beartooth on the way soon.

Is this a viable option to get these cast bullets to feed? I've loaded JSPs and XTPs up to 300 grains in the 1.75"-1.77" range and they'll feed pretty well, but I really want to be able to shoot the heavy lead loads.

The other option might be to file on the left cartridge guide a little, since the case rim catches there, although I don't want to do anything that would then cause it to fail to feed 45 Colt or jacketed Casull loads.

I know Steve's Gunz is reputed to do good work, but I had a shipping snafu when this gun was being returned to me for warranty repair, and I've recently had three guns lost or delayed in shipping, so I'm a little hesitant to mail this one out right now. M&M Gunsmithing in Alexandria is 10 minutes from me, if this is a problem that I can't fix I could take it to them if they're still in business. Do they have a reputation for doing good work?

[Old Ironsights]

Load deeper.

Read Junior's article on it here: http://castbullet.com/shooting/rossi-s3.htm

Yes, it'a a .357, but the same situations apply.

[pomofo]

Interesting read. Since I'll also be above the crimp groove, is the Lee FCD necessary, or would the roll crimp with my RCBS dies crimp enough to keep the bullets from setting back under recoil?

[Tycer]

I lengthened the guide opening and ramped the chamber a tad on my 357. Don't know if it affects 38s or not.

[Old Ironsights]

Interesting read. Since I'll also be above the crimp groove, is the Lee FCD necessary, or would the roll crimp with my RCBS dies crimp enough to keep the bullets from setting back under recoil?

I'm a firm believer in the FCD. ESPECIALLY with the heavy loads.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I've been having problems getting my Puma 92 454 Casull carbine to feed full-length 454 hardcast lead rounds because of the wide meplat, even after returning it for warranty repair. After a bit of experimentation with different lengths, I found that the cartridges would cycle at an OAL of 1.705", which will require trimming of the brass and deeper seating of the bullets by .065" from the recommended OAL. After measuring the available powder space I'll be losing approximately 9-11% of the normal case capacity, depending on the size of the bullet.

The available powder space ends up being around the same as a 45 Colt case, and if I reduce the Casull load data by ~10% it's about the same as the 45 Colt data, powder is H110. Right now I'm trying to shoot the 335 and 395 grain Cast Performance bullets, but I have some 405 & 355 grain bullets from Beartooth on the way soon.

Is this a viable option to get these cast bullets to feed? I've loaded JSPs and XTPs up to 300 grains in the 1.75"-1.77" range and they'll feed pretty well, but I really want to be able to shoot the heavy lead loads.

The other option might be to file on the left cartridge guide a little, since the case rim catches there, although I don't want to do anything that would then cause it to fail to feed 45 Colt or jacketed Casull loads.
..........................................

First, if the brass when loaded at an OAL of 1.705" is still on the side of the bullet and not over the bullet ogive you can crimp right into the side of the lead no trimming required. A roll crimp works better for this but the Lee FCD will work too. It just requires more pressure on the loader handle. You will still need to compensate for the reduced case cap.


The other option, filing on the guide, don't. The problem you are having will only get worse. It sounds like the wider meplate is contacting the top inside of the chamber before the round makes the turn into the chamber. If you remove metal from the guide there at the rim slot it will only increase the angle.

[Buckeye]

Try "Lil-Gun" powder

[John Y Cannuck]

My original '92 in 44-40 feeds best with a bullet profile similar to the original 44-40 RN. Every attempt I've made to use a FN of significant meplat has resulted in jam after jam. The RN however works flawlessly.
NATE has the reason why, if you watch it load, you can see it happen.

Even a truncated cone design hangs on the chamber with mine. Different reason of course.

[pomofo]

I've been having problems getting my Puma 92 454 Casull carbine to feed full-length 454 hardcast lead rounds because of the wide meplat, even after returning it for warranty repair. After a bit of experimentation with different lengths, I found that the cartridges would cycle at an OAL of 1.705", which will require trimming of the brass and deeper seating of the bullets by .065" from the recommended OAL. After measuring the available powder space I'll be losing approximately 9-11% of the normal case capacity, depending on the size of the bullet.

The available powder space ends up being around the same as a 45 Colt case, and if I reduce the Casull load data by ~10% it's about the same as the 45 Colt data, powder is H110. Right now I'm trying to shoot the 335 and 395 grain Cast Performance bullets, but I have some 405 & 355 grain bullets from Beartooth on the way soon.

Is this a viable option to get these cast bullets to feed? I've loaded JSPs and XTPs up to 300 grains in the 1.75"-1.77" range and they'll feed pretty well, but I really want to be able to shoot the heavy lead loads.

The other option might be to file on the left cartridge guide a little, since the case rim catches there, although I don't want to do anything that would then cause it to fail to feed 45 Colt or jacketed Casull loads.
..........................................

First, if the brass when loaded at an OAL of 1.705" is still on the side of the bullet and not over the bullet ogive you can crimp right into the side of the lead no trimming required. A roll crimp works better for this but the Lee FCD will work too. It just requires more pressure on the loader handle. You will still need to compensate for the reduced case cap.


The other option, filing on the guide, don't. The problem you are having will only get worse. It sounds like the wider meplate is contacting the top inside of the chamber before the round makes the turn into the chamber. If you remove metal from the guide there at the rim slot it will only increase the angle.

With the bullet seated deeper, it measures around .448 where it would be crimped, as opposed to .452, so I suppose that's still doable. It just seems odd that the amount that I have to seat it deeper just happens to be about the same as the thickness of the case rim. Because of the offset cartridge guide slots, the right side of the rim clears easily, but because the left side slot is farther forward the left side catches and leaves a definite mark on the rim. I had thought that if I could file that left guide back just a little bit it would allow the longer rounds a little extra space to clear and pop up above the guide, thus putting them at a slightly shallower angle, but there would still be enough offset to keep rounds from flying out the top.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I've been having problems getting my Puma 92 454 Casull carbine to feed full-length 454 hardcast lead rounds because of the wide meplat, even after returning it for warranty repair. After a bit of experimentation with different lengths, I found that the cartridges would cycle at an OAL of 1.705", which will require trimming of the brass and deeper seating of the bullets by .065" from the recommended OAL. After measuring the available powder space I'll be losing approximately 9-11% of the normal case capacity, depending on the size of the bullet.

The available powder space ends up being around the same as a 45 Colt case, and if I reduce the Casull load data by ~10% it's about the same as the 45 Colt data, powder is H110. Right now I'm trying to shoot the 335 and 395 grain Cast Performance bullets, but I have some 405 & 355 grain bullets from Beartooth on the way soon.

Is this a viable option to get these cast bullets to feed? I've loaded JSPs and XTPs up to 300 grains in the 1.75"-1.77" range and they'll feed pretty well, but I really want to be able to shoot the heavy lead loads.

The other option might be to file on the left cartridge guide a little, since the case rim catches there, although I don't want to do anything that would then cause it to fail to feed 45 Colt or jacketed Casull loads.
..........................................

First, if the brass when loaded at an OAL of 1.705" is still on the side of the bullet and not over the bullet ogive you can crimp right into the side of the lead no trimming required. A roll crimp works better for this but the Lee FCD will work too. It just requires more pressure on the loader handle. You will still need to compensate for the reduced case cap.


The other option, filing on the guide, don't. The problem you are having will only get worse. It sounds like the wider meplate is contacting the top inside of the chamber before the round makes the turn into the chamber. If you remove metal from the guide there at the rim slot it will only increase the angle.

With the bullet seated deeper, it measures around .448 where it would be crimped, as opposed to .452, so I suppose that's still doable. It just seems odd that the amount that I have to seat it deeper just happens to be about the same as the thickness of the case rim. Because of the offset cartridge guide slots, the right side of the rim clears easily, but because the left side slot is farther forward the left side catches and leaves a definite mark on the rim. I had thought that if I could file that left guide back just a little bit it would allow the longer rounds a little extra space to clear and pop up above the guide, thus putting them at a slightly shallower angle, but there would still be enough offset to keep rounds from flying out the top.

I gotcha now. You will be filing on the rearward part of the rim slot. The better solution would be to raise the lead in area just slightly. This is the area of the guide behind the rim slot and underneath.