Metal Roof Update-----Going Extreme Duty Commercial Grade

[madman4570]

Well-----Did "my own investigation" (I called yesterday my contractor---said you didn't order that metal yet ??)-----Nope/about too.

I said(I want Commercial Grade Union PBR 24gauge stuff.

That stuff is for extreme hazardous weather(holds 360lbs and close to 200 mph winds)
It can go on a pitch of low as 1/12(actually it said with seamed tape .5"/12)between the 3ft sections.
Rated to span 5ft between purlings----of course we are sticking with 2ft. I like overkill stuff.

That roof is HEAVY DUTY man!

Was told it will cost an extra $1000--------I just laughed and said--------------------Everything considered that's a nit!

It's for Life! (guaranteed paint/corrosion)----------------------for life! Will start very soon!
Heck that will even hold my big 122lb doggie! Makes me all tingly (like getting a gun)

JMHO

[Grizz]

sounds very good. I wonder how that 'lifetime' would rate in southeast alaska.

any product pictures, or is it just like other metal roofing?

Grizz

[AJMD429]

When it comes to a secure dwelling, 'overkill' isn't a bad thing.

[madman4570]

sounds very good. I wonder how that 'lifetime' would rate in southeast alaska.

any product pictures, or is it just like other metal roofing?

Grizz

Actually look wise nothing spectacular---------------------Its the PBR(24ga) Click on top left green metal panel shown then scroll down.
http://www.unioncorrugating.com/commerc ... trial.html

Here is the spec sheet---------Since mine is the 24ga(not 26ga as referenced in table)scroll to bottom for specs.
it should be "over" 400 ftlb load and over 300mph wind Load force.(ftlb)
Notice on the first link(you can get 24ga)that is what I be getting.

http://www.unioncorrugating.com/documen ... lation.pdf

Should look like this below-----------
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... w&dur=1027


GUYS GET THIS----------------------WHEN ALL SAID AND DONE----------------SAME PRICE AS SHINGLES only after 13-15 years will still look/function as new not needing new shingles! That gauge/type-------100 years plus

[stew71]

Looks nice. I was thinking of going to a metal roof on my old house that was in a high fire danger zone. That would have really brought down my insurance rates but we ended up selling the place so we never went through with it.

Good luck.

[Pete44ru]

.

I'd still add hurricane/wind strapping, to hold/tie the roof sheathing supports into the wall posts/studs, and the wall posts/studs to the sill plates.


.

[M. M. Wright]

We built a new house 15 years ago and put a steel roof on it. It was struck by lightning twice within the first three years. We are in NE OK so tornado frequent area which means lots of hail. I wanted it because even beat up it doesn't leak. But when hit by lightning, (fires both times) it just started leaking around the screw holes. Inspection showed the screws were backing out so we tightened them. They backed out again. Ended up tearing the whole thing off, including the purlins and decked it with plywood and installed a standard composition roof. I've installed lightning rods via a flag pole and one on the chimney cap that runs a 5-0 copper to a ground grid. No more lightning in 12 years. I also have a shop building with steel roof and it has been great. The only thing I'd recommend is putting up lightning rods.

[madman4570]

We built a new house 15 years ago and put a steel roof on it. It was struck by lightning twice within the first three years. We are in NE OK so tornado frequent area which means lots of hail. I wanted it because even beat up it doesn't leak. But when hit by lightning, (fires both times) it just started leaking around the screw holes. Inspection showed the screws were backing out so we tightened them. They backed out again. Ended up tearing the whole thing off, including the purlins and decked it with plywood and installed a standard composition roof. I've installed lightning rods via a flag pole and one on the chimney cap that runs a 5-0 copper to a ground grid. No more lightning in 12 years. I also have a shop building with steel roof and it has been great. The only thing I'd recommend is putting up lightning rods.

Something to think about(the lightning rods??)
One thing, our house sits in a gorge surrounded by 100ft tall hemlocks(and many very close)are another 100ft above that(up banks)
The backing out of screws---do you remember if they were double washer screws and did you use 2"x4" purlings???

They are telling me the new screws(do not back out ??)


Pete----will see about the hurricane straps??????

[Grizz]

Thanks, I bookmarked that for my daughter to check out. It looks really really good. Do you have snow and ice in winter? And big wind?

It blows around 80 here in WA sometimes, on one building she put on an asphalt roof that so far is holding up well. Now she needs to roof the shop.

In alaska some of the locals are switching to the form of metal roof that has no exposed screw heads. The ones I've seen look really good, but I don't know what kind of wind load they can take. The snow and ice loosen screws by working them and the wind can get under panels and work themselves free. A terrifying thing when it's blowing over a hundred.

Grizz

[madman4570]

Thanks, I bookmarked that for my daughter to check out. It looks really really good. Do you have snow and ice in winter? And big wind?

It blows around 80 here in WA sometimes, on one building she put on an asphalt roof that so far is holding up well. Now she needs to roof the shop.

In alaska some of the locals are switching to the form of metal roof that has no exposed screw heads. The ones I've seen look really good, but I don't know what kind of wind load they can take. The snow and ice loosen screws by working them and the wind can get under panels and work themselves free. A terrifying thing when it's blowing over a hundred.

Grizz

Snow and Ice------absolutely, in fact because of our house sitting in this big gorge some winters there is still snow on ground in May.
It's shaded so the snow does not melt easily. Now on my 40x10 enclosed patio I have basically that metal roof. Have had it on for over a decade(no problems and it looks new) Now only issue I did have last winter(with snow)is where that roof met my house siding(the part where the 2"x10" goes against the houses side wall(looking at it from inside the patio,when we had snow load and it got warm I would sometime get a small drip between the house siding and the 2"x10" where it attaches to the vinyl. In heavy driving hard rain not a drip. My roofer looked at it and said that is a $40 gasket they use.(easily new one stuck in, or even using a bead of Silicone along that seam(would do it)basically preventive maintenance. Otherwise the actual panels/roof(perfect)

The guys are coming up at 9.30am today(contract ??)and they except starting work on the 16th????
Right now my issue is to tell them---(I myself priced the difference between that cheaper 29ga stuff and the HD Commercial PBR stuff.(it's about $900)
If I had my absolute wish-----------------yes I would go with the Standing seam(no screws/take everything off/check deck/install wrap underlayment/and snap away----but the will run around $10K more ??????
I am also wanting verification from them today that in this humid environment (heated,not an unheated enclosed patio)I will not have moisture issues effecting home??? If you look at one of my banks running right up to the patio(it is a thick blanket of pretty green moss,like a carpet. (no mowing needed there)
I will ask them again about the screws(snow/ice)????? They keep telling me they have done theses metal roofs for 20 years(no problems)and that is with the 29ga (Union MasterRib stuff)????
My daughters boyfriend have hired this guy(the main guy)for years doing big buildings for their business and they really like him.
He did tell(the roof guy)if you have issues call me------and if I have to I will rip it off and put new shingle roof on. Said---I can't have my name ruined by this dinky job.(and being you are tied to some people I do (big jobs for)don't want you/them pi##ed off and ruin my future big business.????????

Who know after this morning------might end up(with 30year architectural shingles ???)Hope not though!

[Tycer]

Sounds like you'll do fine with that roof. It will outlast you. I've done work on that type roof that is 20 years old and the neoprene gaskets were still pliable. On one roof like that I was contracted to snug all the screws because the purlins had shrunk because they were too wet when installed. They were fresh cut just a few weeks before the roof was laid. It was easy but I did leave a couple of marks where my toes were not on the purlins.

[madman4570]

Sounds like you'll do fine with that roof. It will outlast you. I've done work on that type roof that is 20 years old and the neoprene gaskets were still pliable. On one roof like that I was contracted to snug all the screws because the purlins had shrunk because they were too wet when installed. They were fresh cut just a few weeks before the roof was laid. It was easy but I did leave a couple of marks where my toes were not on the purlins.

Does that sound right to you---------------------Install synthetic barrier wrap over exisiting shingles,then install 2"x4" purlings 2foot on center horizontal to roof running opposite of roof rafters, then install 24ga PBR??? We get the prevailing wind(though we are pretty protected from the west so I will ensure that the overlap seams (that overlapping sheet section)are facing opposite that direction as described in online installation manual.????

I asked head man(roofer)---you do have the Internet right ???(nicely kidding way)---- all I ask is please read that online Manufactures Installation Instructions???????

Anything I am missing ???????????

[M. M. Wright]

madman,
The purlins were 1" oak which holds screws very firmly in most applications. These were the hex head with a steel washer and a rubber washer under it to seal the hole. Have held very well on my shop building which has 1/2" plywood decking.
When I examined the old purlins the screw holes appeared to be charred. Maybe from the lightning?
After each lightning strike the insurance company that was current dropped me. I guess they know that lightning does strike twice in the same spot.
My garage floor was cracked by the last strike and one small piece of concrete was stuck in the ceiling.

[madman4570]

madman,
The purlins were 1" oak which holds screws very firmly in most applications. These were the hex head with a steel washer and a rubber washer under it to seal the hole. Have held very well on my shop building which has 1/2" plywood decking.
When I examined the old purlins the screw holes appeared to be charred. Maybe from the lightning?
After each lightning strike the insurance company that was current dropped me. I guess they know that lightning does strike twice in the same spot.
My garage floor was cracked by the last strike and one small piece of concrete was stuck in the ceiling.

M.M.------------
Would you think standard 2"x4" are acceptable ????
Here is the problem----because of myself reading stuff (and learning)also from you guys------------------I think this time when he stops in with other guy(roofer wanted him to see it)they are beginning to think---------is this guy for real
He wants this/thinks maybe that/must be done so/even though we have been doing it for over 25years(they probably are going)if this yahoo didn't have contacts to some big bizz-----------------later for him!

I can't help it----------I want this best job for the dollar--------now I know the roofing cost----------for 2000 sq ft (667 lin ft)it is $2500
I know there is a bunch of other stuff--------but if they try to push me into the cheap stuff-----might be showing them the door and apologize to daughters boyfriend later.
Fair is fair--------and if I have to---I will call supply place(give em my credit card/have it shipped/grab my brother and put it up myself(per mfg directions at least)

Its going to be my way(what I want)-------our they can take a walk.
First they said(no barrier/I read and it said(should have)I am having-----then the purlings(they wanted firing strips(nope its going to be 2"X4"/I want the best mfg recommended double washer screws(not screws laying around in tool box)I want the screws installed the mfg torque specs(not maybe it feels good/I want the mfg recommended boot/screws that goes over sewer pvc vent pipe(and required built up wood boxing in etc.
They said once they start----when people bug them---it pi##es them kinda off-----but if I see stuff done(not right)we are having a go.

Bottom line will pay them right--------------------want job done right!

[Grizz]

do they have any roofing jobs going on that you can take a look at? where are they working now? might be worth a drive to see what they do and talk to owners who have been through some winters with the same roofing..

not to spread dread, but the public school in a southeast alaska village has had the professionally installed top of the line high dollar roof replaced two or three times because the 'system' just isn't working in that environment, and the promises made by the pros are worthless. in alaska that is. we have some of the old roofing around our place.

it was a different system with inches of foam block insulation, that the roofers swore up and down would not fail. It is the combination of high snow loads, turning to ice, then more snow, then rain and HIGH WINDS that makes the roofing fail where I lived...

don't want to be a wet towel here, but bad stuff can happen.

I like your 2x4 idea, but they sure do need to be attached to the rafters in a way they cannot move...

I like the heavy gauge metal too, that seems to be a good and worthwhile investment.

Grizz

PS if I could afford it I would weld up a solid eighth inch marine aluminum roof and strap it down so the entire building would have to fly to move it. but I can't.

[Tycer]

Sounds like you'll do fine with that roof. It will outlast you. I've done work on that type roof that is 20 years old and the neoprene gaskets were still pliable. On one roof like that I was contracted to snug all the screws because the purlins had shrunk because they were too wet when installed. They were fresh cut just a few weeks before the roof was laid. It was easy but I did leave a couple of marks where my toes were not on the purlins.

Does that sound right to you---------------------Install synthetic barrier wrap over exisiting shingles,then install 2"x4" purlings 2foot on center horizontal to roof running opposite of roof rafters, then install 24ga PBR??? We get the prevailing wind(though we are pretty protected from the west so I will ensure that the overlap seams (that overlapping sheet section)are facing opposite that direction as described in online installation manual.????

I asked head man(roofer)---you do have the Internet right ???(nicely kidding way)---- all I ask is please read that online Manufactures Installation Instructions???????

Anything I am missing ???????????

Sounds like he's doing thing by roofing standards for your area. Go for and don't worry any more. All this fretting and the roof wil definitely outlast you

[Tycer]

I like your 2x4 idea, but they sure do need to be attached to the rafters in a way they cannot move...

Grizz

This

[madman4570]

They just left---------------
My roofer(nice guy)brought the Union Metal Rep/Distributer/Architect/and he drew up a drawing and will give me(the price)the roofer wanted second opinion with this guy(guy seemed really sharp???

They said(they will not be putting foam insert in each end of panel(which prevents bugs/birds/rain but also prevents venting?--they will be using some type of mesh/screening system to enhance ventilation/also they are doing something on the cap which will aid in this.
For this roof he recommends not Repel but Heavy Gauge (Stick Em ???)underlayment????

Also on my flat addition(which has a one piece Lifetime Rubber roof(10years old)I am having them match roof line(2"x8" 16"OC)with the rest of roof so complete roof will be (Pitched)this is about a 15X35 ft area.

First thing when they got out of truck------------shook Reps hand and said-------------Hi, I am Larry,don't want to waste anyones time but I want 24 GAUGE PBR (he laughed and said----I like this guy already----He ain't cheap

Watched every move they made on roof and glad I did------roofer was talking over the flat rubber roof----(this is where we are going to stop here with the metal-----I was standing on moss bank-----said,nope that area is getting rafters/matching pitch of other roof so whole roof will be one nice one slope(pretty steep)metal roof.
Rep said----------------Not a bad idea my friend. I told them to leave the rubber roof as is under but still over that install synthetic barrier. Found out they are both---------------BIG TIME HUNTERS/SHOOTERS told about this place(Leverguns)and also Joe(86er)
They are going to go on here-----and have a peek??????????

So----will price change-----well the roofer did already give me 4 prices already prior (last week etc.)and one included even that repitched/area over rubber roof so with the exception of 24ga PBR upgrade/the capping/and edge screening/and couple tubes of special Silicone to fix that patio drip(when snow is on/melts)Rep said he has stuff better than (my always choice)Silicone #1(that stuff that has the vinegar smell(forget what his is)----will have update price by the am.

he said not many people get the 24ga PBR(so that will be special order right from factory)should be able to have it within a week???

Don't mind paying little more for doing things right-----but also I ain't no fool. I verified every step they took on current roof so nothing was damaged and then I am in (a desperate situation) wife says on phone(You are paranoid)

ps----the chimney and the vent pipe---told em want the Union best stuff there too.
Last week the top of chimney cap(the concrete piece was getting bad)had some stones coming down on rubber roof------he said wow you did that cap??? (Now it is HD re-concreted/painted black/stainless cap(I made)and the whole thing is wrapped in HD fence wire.
so nothing getting in!

Told them I had some stainless sheeting(cut it,made a cap)had the HD galvanized fence(wire)and bought a 80lb bag of mortar Mix at Lowes for $3.95

Am I getting too anal(oooooops,can I say that word here/s/b able too in that reference! If not Mods remove it and (my bad)

2nd ps----------------Rep said---I bet you made that cap for sewer pipe too ------sure did last week.
Wife says those caps are annoying (when coming up driveway first thing catching your eye is these sun bright shiny black/silver things.
Said-----at about 6pm last night they were reflecting off the trees??????????

Told the guys------if they do good work-------coffee/doughnuts at their wish and ice cold IPA beer afterwards each day!
Also they are bringing their guns and we be heading out back to the range!(before beer)

Thanks guys for all info!
I asked about the screws backing out(cold/ice/snow/wind etc.)they said with the nails(used to)here this region with the high quality screws/bushings---------------not an issue????
Could I be making a mistake(maybe big mistake???) But from what I have been seeing in the last couple years----shingles ain't gonna last. How do I know this------well this place was first built in 1976(back of house has original, then rated 25 year shingles(getting to needing replacing 37 years old--- but roofer says they are better than his 30 year rated shingles he put on 13 years ago.
The other section of the front of house(2nd addition)has 19 year old 30 year Owens Corning Architecturals (they are about beat)and actually that side is protected even more than backside.
So----knowing how they have degraded from 25year rated shingles in 1976 to now verses the 30 year rated shingles in 1994 to now I can not imagine what they are now???? Roofer said-----just pick up a bundle and feel for yourself--------------not even a fraction of what they once were.???? Nothing compares to the high quality high amount of oil they then used in an important part of the makeup of the shingle.

[1894]

Sounds good ! Are they also doing new metal fascia and drip edges ?

[madman4570]

Sounds good ! Are they also doing new metal fascia and drip edges ?

Yep!

Also matching green(they call it Evergreen)gutters and actually looking into running heat elements into gutter system for ice build-up in winter.
That part is just a maybe though? If there was any way possible that I could make do I would have the new 2" drip edge overhangs and no gutters at all.---------------------------Just don't want ice build up damaging edge of new metal roof.

Everything will be------------------- matching green

[stretch]

Stop fussin'.

It sounds like the roofer has it together.

24 gauge will outlast you, and the screws these days
are quite good. You'll have no trouble. And boy, you'll sure
appreciate not having to shovel the roof in February!

-Stretch

[madman4570]

Stop fussin'.

It sounds like the roofer has it together.

24 gauge will outlast you, and the screws these days
are quite good. You'll have no trouble. And boy, you'll sure
appreciate not having to shovel the roof in February!

-Stretch

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[BAGTIC]

Not just the gauge but also the external finish will affect durability.

If worried about screws leaking use a screw less design which does not have any exposed screws.

Also have a continuous ridge vent with external baffles.

[madman4570]

Ok-----here is where we are at---------------------Remember I said the roofer and the Rep guy came up Friday ?????
I told them 24ga or bust?

They were going to rewrite up the cost------------------and said it should be latter that day or by the next day they would be letting me know.
Got a call Sat. morning from roofer he is still putting all costs together will call me Monday.(didn't think in my simple mind it would not have have much of a task since they already had previous measurements (just add difference for 24ga and add in synthetic underlayment and if they were using cheaper screws adjust for the top of the line double washer screws made for that metal etc.

Remember now-----I have also the quotes for shingles already.

Guys-----You have to understand-----I am the type of guy that (tries to understand everything I can before making a decision)
I started not knowing(nothing about metal roofs)-----still don't know beans but I have being doing as much research as I can to be absolutely sure I am not going to have a problem(with metal in this climate/humidity/type of roofing venting I have.

Upon further studying/and your guys helpful knowledge a couple things(was not told by roofer)worries me.
When you have a steep pitch(like a 12/12)----I don't-------- places with heavy snow(which we have )the snow tends to fall(slide )off before accumulating(and sitting there/icing up)with pitches less than 2/12 the snow sits and does not slide off(just melts)which I will not have especially after they do the build up of the one part flat rubber roof addition. My roof sections will be aprox. 6/12, 4/12, 5/12

According to some of the Metal Roofing Companies they actually call out in their Tech Manuals (Caution)when installing metal roofing on pitches greater than 2/12 but less than a very steep pitch (ie. 12/12 etc.)those that live in heavy snow load areas have a risk of snow/ice AVALANCHING. This load builds up and forms an ice bottom section(because of condensing metal)and all at once huge sheets(very large sheets, possibly a complete section)can all at once----AVALANCHE. Causing extreme damage to vents/eves/chimneys/decks/anything below that can be hit with tons of snow/ice sheets(in a blink)

Yes you can install (snow/ice breaks)but many times they fail,because of the heavy load and iced bottom bending/breaking them(also now you have more leakeage potential.The potential from firstly putting these things all over roof(more holes)and if they do bend/even though not break the washers will fail.(leakage)

I have a huge treated deck that will be in that potential(meaning will be hit if it does AVALANCHE.The deck is still 8ft high(have concrete patio under that so that EXSPENSIVE deck would be wiped out and God Forbid anyone standing under it if (there she blows)or for that matter standing even on deck.
Also right next to it is my chimney-----that will go too.
Also halfway up my one part of roof----is my PVC sewer vent.(she will go too)
With sewer vents(and metal roofs)the vent pipe should "always be at top next to ridge)mine is halfway(middle of roof currently)

Or how bout----the other part(22ft up)wife comes out of ground floor(actually basement door,which is what we normally use)walkout basement. Slams door-------a ice/snow sheet all of a sudden goes(say a 16'x 32')section (1000's of lbs)slides and falls in a fraction of a second droping from 22ft up on my cute little 105 lb wife????

Bottom line--------guys I feel that roofer/rep should have at least discussed that with me.(I really don't want extra dodads drilled all over my would be already screwed through roof. Plus I still have some concerns with moisture because two roofs sections have no attic(correct venting for conditions)

So--------with that in mind------They might be mad(so be it)I think I will switch BACK to the best HD shingles I can get.Have them strip roof, inspect deck,apply underlayment,apply snow & Ice(2 layers)6ft worth from eves up.and install lifetime shingles.

Got thinking this shaded/humid environment though maybe bad for metal(condensation)is GOOD for rubber/and asphalt shingles.
That is why mine on back are 37 years old and still pretty good,that is why my 66 Bronco when I gave it away (it sat for decades)the tires were still good and still had air.


Yep------------think I am going to tell them(changed my mind)--------if they don't like it(plenty of roofers wanting work)
Bottom line------they should have warned me of that--------shouldn't have to research that too. Actually should have looked into my ventilation issues better too. (Cause in my line of work,my Profession prior to retirement if all research/investigations were not done and accurate-------------------you would be gone--------------------and probably saying in next career position "you want fries with that"

Here read Tech notes and you tell me--????
http://www.fabral.com/wp-content/upload ... uards1.pdf

and-----
http://www.fabral.com/wp-content/upload ... ation1.pdf

[madman4570]

OK--------------------------Boys and Girls

Madman's roof saga continues.-----Oh boy!

Talked to roofer-----(he got me new prices)the price for the heavy 24ga($5000 more)it is because when you use that PBR you have to use it on everything else that goes with roof(flashing/caps/all finish metal/etc, and that stuff is expensive.

Both Hi quality Local Lumber Stores here---------------carry the one gauge for roofing(29ga)and both said the MasterRib has been a main stay for over a couple decades and has held up extremely well.
Talked to the roofer with my concerns--------he said the very back of my house(has a 8/12 pitch)said the snow will shed off that quickly and will fall about 4ft out from house(a no issue) he said(from his experience with all the metal roofs he has done(99% with Union MasterRib)he is aware of (none)that have had avalanches that have caused injury or major damage. Thinks my pitch(which on front thinks it will be more of a 4/12 pitch---------------no big deal ???????

He said-----he will guarantee his work(1 full year)on moisture issues as well as the 40year mfg warranty on metal.But even if after a year---call him and we can work something out

I did go over to my wife's Aunt/Uncles place tonight and looked at their roof-----a raised ranch that he put on 29ga MasterRib himself 10 years ago(he bought the 29ga,installed 1"x3" purlings directly over shingles(no underlayment)and used 2" screws to rafters and the normal rubber bushing screws to install metal to purlings.(no leaks still)
He did recommend a vented ridge cap and screening under that.
Said,yes he does get some snow that slides off roof(no damage)and he has a PVC vent pipe halfway up on his roof and it still is fine.

So----with that in mind-------------------and with my roofers (feeling of without a doubt if this was his home)he would go the metal route. One thing is if you ever have to fix something,those panels can be unscrewed and removed and then reinstalled etc.

Said that roof should last (at least 50years)and promises me if I go with the high end shingles(even up here)in 15 years he will be back or someone else will.

So------he will stop tomorrow/we will review contract and then its a go for metal.-------(no guts/no glory)

[Grizz]

biggest problem I have with mine is dormers in the steepest pitchs and they dump on a shallow pitch entry on one side and shallower pitch over the woodshed on the other. this backs up tons of snow and I sometimes have to shovel. it's a "feature" of my roof, which I did not build or design.

it is true that ice builds up and dams the snow. the snow does sometimes slide off in slabs, but I would not describe this as an avalanche, exactly, and it does make some significant amount of noise and you can hear it coming. on my place the snow falls directly onto the beach and not onto any decks or boardwalks, so trespassers, beware.

biggest problem with holding snow is that the snow can get rained on and then frozen in one day, that makes everything on top a block of ice, and then new snow sticks to that. it makes a substantial snow load and in the right, or wrong conditions it sinks boats in the harbor.

not saying any of this applies to your site, but it's something to think about. I don't think a shingle roof would have survived half as long as the metal, and I think every house in my village uses metal roofing.

we are right on tidewater so we get a lot of salt water mixed in with the horizontal rains. challenging conditions. to whatever degree your typical weather is less agressive, your roof will survive that much longer. I think you will like it a lot.

I wonder if you could install a heat tape under the lower end and get the ice to melt out? that should encourage the snow to dump. just a thot... , never tried it.

good roofing to ya

Grizz

[madman4570]

Good idea Grizz!


I signed the contract about two hours ago! (doing the metal roof)Union MasterRib
Will start next Monday!

It's going to be quite a job-----has three levels/aprox. 2200sqft/and one section(15x34)they will be building center support wall,running 22ft of 2"x10" @16"OC supported halfway and then (plywood decking, synthetic barrier,vents,then the metal.(this will be what will be over presently a pretty much flat pitch lifetime one piece rubber roof) the rest of the 1700sqft will be 2"x4" purlings (2 ft OC)over existing shingles/synthetic wrap/metal roof w/ridge venting.

This will all tie in to make one simple transition and a two tier nice well pitched roofline throughout.

Expected life of roof------------------(50years +) ????? Paint fade is guaranteed 40 years from Mfg.

They don't do gutters(they contract that part out afterwards)they will be Alcoa HD large gutters(hung lower)and downspouts and will be Hunter Green to match Evergreen color of the metal roof!

[AJMD429]

What did you decide as far as the 'avalanche' factor...? We have them routinely off our standing-seam barn roof that is only about a 4 foot rise over a 16 foot span.

We used adhesive-applied snow-jacks, but they fell off after 15 years and I got tired of re-applying them. I've thrown up a couple loops of rope over the barn roof just over the door where I really care, and that helps nicely.

[madman4570]

What did you decide as far as the 'avalanche' factor...? We have them routinely off our standing-seam barn roof that is only about a 4 foot rise over a 16 foot span.

We used adhesive-applied snow-jacks, but they fell off after 15 years and I got tired of re-applying them. I've thrown up a couple loops of rope over the barn roof just over the door where I really care, and that helps nicely.

I am saying screw it!
Talked to wifes uncle----he put on a metal roof(a decade ago)has about a 6/12 pitch. Used the regular roof metal sold at most stores like Home depot/Lowes etc.(29ga stuff)He only installed firing strips directly over old roof and he did not even use underlayment.
This is a screw through roof like what mine will be. he has not had one lick of trouble. He says---sure sometimes you hear it----and a bunch comes off roof(he said----that is a good thing) He also has a PVC sewer pipe halfway up his roof also. Said the snow/ice just breaks away around it. He did not even put up any snow/ice guards. Last year where he lives(about 8 miles from me)they got hit with huge hail----ruined all the surrounding neighbors roofs(shingled ones)he even had dents in his car. He looked other his roof----a few dimples and that was it. When the Insurance guy came to his home(he said, don't bother me, not making any claim/nothing hurt)
His thinking was that by actually using the thinner gauge it flexed and bounced back (instead of denting)????

Said only issue on a small metal overhang above his front door (when it avalanches)he gets a bunch stuck on that----he takes his sweep broom that he put an extended 4ft piece if 1.25" dia PVC pipe on to extend its length and sweeps it off.

So--------we are going it-----------(raw)
If we get swept away-----------------------------you guys will hear.

If I notice issues too bad----next year will see about what changes we can make.(got a one year warranty no matter what weather etc from roofer)
One thing I do have is two 10ft sections of PVC pipe(one fits inside the other)and secure whatever length with Grizzly duct tape(can be changed lengthwise easily. I call it "The wand" I used it once to paint a two story house(with roller)while standing on ground. Will use it to sweep off snow from roof right after it snows etc at least quite a ways up from eves. Hey, Our old neighbor fellow came out----and said wow(that really works,told him it's my wand)
Course being it was hot and because I was painting(had no shirt on and skimpy cutoff shorts (the one time I had one these holey skimpy jean shorts on?????? (daisy duke type )
So this neighbor has a guy friend who comes over later(this friend of his was of the feminine nature)don't ya know came walking by while I was using that extender painting my MIL upper level place. Walks up,put his hand on my shoulder rubs it(he had on a nice pink shirt)and says--------Larry, I just love the length of your wand and smiled/winked at me??????

[M. M. Wright]

Madman,
Now that Doc brings it up I did have an ice build-up that slid off when it started to thaw that ripped a 3' hole in the metal as it took a vent pipe with it. Yeah, it broke a purlin too. I went to vents that stop in the attic and have check balls on them. Nothing penetrating the roof now. Not to code but works really well out here where no one says anything about what or how I build. I put in huge gable end vents too, mostly to let the heat out in summer. You know it routinely gets 115 F here and will go to -5 F some years. Why do we live here?

[madman4570]

Madman,
Now that Doc brings it up I did have an ice build-up that slid off when it started to thaw that ripped a 3' hole in the metal as it took a vent pipe with it. Yeah, it broke a purlin too. I went to vents that stop in the attic and have check balls on them. Nothing penetrating the roof now. Not to code but works really well out here where no one says anything about what or how I build. I put in huge gable end vents too, mostly to let the heat out in summer. You know it routinely gets 115 F here and will go to -5 F some years. Why do we live here?

Yea---I worry about that vent pipe and chimney some??
They showed up today with ladders and most their tools etc.The truck broke down last night carrying lumber/metal so it won't be until about 10:30am today it will arrive. The crew is doing a small day job couple miles away today(owner says he can't have crew waiting around hoping truck shows up later today.Will start tomorrow. (today clear nice/tomorrow chance of thunderstorms)My vent pipe is for the additions master bedroom/bath.There is no attic(so to speak)-------I mentioned my concern I bet(20 times??)same with chimney)the chimney will be about in middle section of house and will be in line (end wise)with end of metal where the water flows in that direction???(meaning the bottom end of roof eve going in direction of vertical run.Hope that constant running water/ice/freeze/thaw does not mess up the blocks???(cause issues?)

I will mention again(go the overkill route with that pipe-----But he did say--------once he starts-----he absolutely does not like busy bodys bugging his every move ---guess I gotta respect that(though I am paying him)

All I can do is mention it again------hey one thing I just finished about a half hour ago(both with cell phone and Nikon Coolpix-----I took photos of whole(outside of roof/patio)prior to work(it still looks darn good/and no leaks)
Then inside the complete house every room/halls/etc.took photos of all rooms and insured I have all ceilings including stairways/halls.
Everything nice/newly painted(last year)and dry--------as new!
Just in case! (dated and time stamped)

[madman4570]

M.M.

What roof pitch was your roof ??????(that had the slide)mine (there)is about a 4/12 at most, and at chimney it will be very flat cause it will be at eve area where it is cut into soffit at bottom end of a 4/12 pitch.

I am going to mention------even though I mentioned it(can they around that pipe and chimney also----maybe box in the distance between purlings(2x4's will be anchored/tied together flat ways encompassing a good sized full wood area for strength say aprox. 2 foot square in front of pipe and chimney install a few snow guards???? If it cost extra---------------so be it!

Also if I was doing it would like a steel pipe that fit tightly over that pvc pipe(and steel anchored to that built up wood section)if there was any gap between pipes would just take a can of Great Stuff Foam and fill that tiny gap between pipe section fully keeping moisture/water out.----He##-------------going to mention that too??????????

[harry]

Hav you looked at these:
http://www.metalroofsnowguards.com/Vent ... s_c_3.html
I have also seen V shaped roof vent guards that deflect the snow and ice away from vent pipes.

[AJMD429]

Madman,
Now that Doc brings it up I did have an ice build-up that slid off when it started to thaw that ripped a 3' hole in the metal as it took a vent pipe with it. Yeah, it broke a purlin too. I went to vents that stop in the attic and have check balls on them. Nothing penetrating the roof now. Not to code but works really well out here where no one says anything about what or how I build. I put in huge gable end vents too, mostly to let the heat out in summer. You know it routinely gets 115 F here and will go to -5 F some years. Why do we live here..?

I think you answered your own question...

[madman4570]

They brought more materials---

In front of the chimney--------he is going to build a (dormer/or whatever you call it)so the water goes off in both side directions and not just slam into blocks.
He asked we could do this--------------I said yep go ahead and tack it on! wife says-----boy you are constantly tacking stuff on???? Now if they can do that with that vent pipe!



OMG------------they brought more stuff-----when they pulled back up in driveway I was laying on a tarp on ground(on my side,with a magnifying glass counting number of 3' x 23' Union Metal Roofing sheets.

Had my notebook---taking count on all stuff

I got out of it though(and I was not lying cause wife did say-------there can't be that many sheets to do this whole place(I blamed it on her. Said I had to prove it(then covered up notebook)

So--------------------here is where we are at----without counting all the channel stuff/sofet stuff/molding/ridge vent stuff/various angle matching large angled metal (there is a bunch)

55----- sheets of 1/2" 4ply plywood
52------ 2"x10"x16'
70------ 2"x4"x 8'
40------ 2"x4"x16'
34-------2'x4'x12'
4 rolls of 4ftx250ft-----Grip Rite(synthetic underlayment

70(yes 70)-----sheets of 3'x23'(Union Metal Master Rib)metal sheathing
2----large boxes of 1000ct Phil Burger Head Posi-set Course Threaded Screws


Waiting on the green(Union)metal fastener screws(they drove 40miles tonight to get them)---how many ?????

Tomorrow------I will help them some with carrying stuff up on roof(no weightlifting will be required rest of week)

The boss---looks like a little bulldog------he had a Southern Tier Porter Beer with me tonight.
he said------well you certainly are one great big rugged looking fella-------we will see how you handle carrying (2 at a time)2'x10'x16' up that steep ladder tomorrow, then for your cardio-----those 55 sheets of 4ply plywood----he said(I got the metal)
Then looked at my dog-----and said(that is one rugged dog)

[Streetstar]

Sounds cool -- have enjoyed the write up so far. I cant have metal roofing because I am in hail country (well, I guess I could, but it would look like what you ran over with your trimmer in a few years --- a lot of insurance policies in the area on rural properties only cover "functional" hail damage on metal clad structures , to include a home with a metal roof , but will gladly pay to strip off the fiberglass shingles and re-do them every 5-10 years. (they don't want to re-skin everyone's outbuildings and barns after every hail storm I suppose)

I just use a heavy duty finerglass based shingle that is a reasonable facsimile of a slate roof if you squint (12/12 pitch on most of it, but with 6/12 wrap around porch kickouts all around , so I hope the shallower sections will slow down any potential avalanches --but not likely in Oklahoma anyway

[madman4570]

Sounds cool -- have enjoyed the write up so far. I cant have metal roofing because I am in hail country (well, I guess I could, but it would look like what you ran over with your trimmer in a few years --- a lot of insurance policies in the area on rural properties only cover "functional" hail damage on metal clad structures , to include a home with a metal roof , but will gladly pay to strip off the fiberglass shingles and re-do them every 5-10 years. (they don't want to re-skin everyone's outbuildings and barns after every hail storm I suppose)

I just use a heavy duty finerglass based shingle that is a reasonable facsimile of a slate roof if you squint (12/12 pitch on most of it, but with 6/12 wrap around porch kickouts all around , so I hope the shallower sections will slow down any potential avalanches --but not likely in Oklahoma anyway

Probably the best deal for ya Doug!

Hope this is not a screw up me going metal?
It's just three contractors I know well-----have told me(lately the shingles after about 13 years are going bad and its all different Mfg's
Mine told me---do not expect anywhere even remotely close to what you had!

Here is one thing that I did find----------about a decade ago on our enclosed patio(low roof pitch)I had Metal put on.
The Hunter green painted stuff(similar to what rest of place is getting)
I have one of my high barns(basically a tall big shed)right in this ravine(mouth of the gorge)it is damp/shaded etc.
Behind the shed stuck in a pile of old leaves/branches/dirt/mulch/etc. is a left over piece of old metal(a panel)Honest to God it still looks after wiping off dirt/wet leaves/mulch etc.-----absolutely new(both sides???)
My shingle roof on shed every 3 months I have to clean(moss)and it will need replacing soon(with metal )

I kinda figure by accident--------I did my own torture test?????
Thought if it can do that---------that stuff has got to last???
Even the paint(against fade)is warranted 40 years!
Guess time will tell------but contractor told me--------its a 50 years or bust for sure!

Well---came in for a blink to let dogs out/make coffee/grab some sugar cookies(for crew)-----back outside carrying stuff!
Though they said----------------don't have too!

[madman4570]

Crew still here doing front of place!
Will be about 3 weeks time they are done!
But will be one HD roof!

Bottom line what I end up with:

Original shingled roof(decent shape)
On top of that as follows---in order

Grip Rite Synthetic Underlayment
2" x 4" Purlings 2ft OC
1/2" 4 ply plywood sheathing
2nd layer of Grip Rite Underlayment
Their heaviest gauge Union Master Rib premium metal roofing (26ga)
premium SS screws with double neoprene washers.

On the large addition that had Lifetime Rubber Roof (which they framed/rafted/into new roof) as follow in order.

Rubber Roof
2" x 10" 16" OC (pitched rafters over rubber roof)
1/2" 4 ply plywood sheathing
Grip Rite Underlayment
Their heaviest gauge Union Master Rib premium metal roofing (26ga)
premium SS screws with double neoprene washers

All trim with be also Union heavy gauge Galvalume metal (26ga) w/ premium SS screws/double neoprene washers

Everything to match in color(Evergreen)including new Evergreen 6" Alcoa commercial Gutters/Spouts all around!

[Tycer]

Your great-grandchildren will thank you.

[Grizz]

sounds great. you know you are in violation of the photo rule, right? oh, you thought that only applies to firearms?

Nah, my understanding is that it applies to the topic at hand.

Can't wait to see it!

Grizz

[madman4570]

Thanks Guys!