.25-35 Acting goofy

[Slick13]

I've got a 2005 Model 94 carbine in .25-35. It's always behaved a bit odd when it comes to powders. With the 117 gr. Hornady bullet, the slower the powder, the flatter the gun shoots. At 50 yards with Win 760 it's right on, a little high with RL15 and BLC2 and waaaay high with AA4260 and H4895.

I bought some Remington 87 grain bullets to use on groundhogs this summer, and last night I finally got around to loading some up to try out. Used 31 grains of BLC-2 in Win brass with Fed Match LR primers. Left the peep sight where I had it set for 117 grain bullets and expected the 87 grainers to shoot lower. To my suprise, these loads shot nearly a foot higher than my 117 grain loads. First two shots were touching though! I didn't try as hard on the next two since I was so discouraged with how high the first two were.

I know the cartridge OAL length is a hair long and chambering was tight. Could this have anything to do with how high it shot? Or should I start I forget BLC-2 with that bullet, and go to something slower?

Thanks,

~Michael

[Don McDowell]

Its the difference in velocity and trajectories that causes the different point of impact.
That's the beauty of adjustable sights, change em up to fit the bullet impact.

[Slick13]

Its the difference in velocity and trajectories that causes the different point of impact.
That's the beauty of adjustable sights, change em up to fit the bullet impact.

I've got a Marbles tang peep sight on the gun, and it's cranked all the way down to get the gun to shoot an inch high at 50 yards off the bench with the 117 grain bullet. I can't go any lower to bring the 87 grain bullet down, and I'm not putting on a scope. I'll try a slower powder (unless anyone has any other suggestions), and if that doesn't work, I guess I'll have some Remington .25-20 bullets to sell.

~Michael

[Don McDowell]

Put on a taller front sight to bring the poi down. Also try moving out to further distance than 50 yds, the poi's maybe more compatible.
Changing powder burn rate will do absolutely nothing towards correcting your problem.
It's the difference in velocity, that 87 gr bullet is doing about 600 fps more out of the muzzle than the 117 if you're loading to max.

[BenT]

I was looking at one of the 25-35 carbines . I was wondering if it shoots consistant tight groups?

Also I keep a bunch of front sights on hand for when I set up a gun for a certain load and bullet wieght . About only half of my guns have original front sights

You could also go to a side mounted peep and adjust elevation for when you change between the two bullet wieghts. Or use the factory rear sight for the 86 grain and the tang for the heavier stuff. They usually flipped the tang sight up for stuff that was farther out and thats one reason why it won't go low enough. The slow bullets needed to be lobbed in . So fast bullets weren't really in the picture with tang sights.

[Hobie]

My .25-35 does the same thing with bullet weights that differ that much. 75 gr. BTs at 2800 fps are lots higher than 117 gr. at 2300 fps with the same sight setting at the same range. In fact, to bring the POI down, I had to shim the scope (a Contender carbine barrel) to use the 75 gr. bullets. I've gone back to the 117s.

[Nath]

I fear friend that you do need a taller front site. The answer most definately not in changing powders or changing powder speeds and powder speeds have no bearing on the vel of the bullet in the amounts required to obtain your zero. Powder speeds only mean how quick they develope their pressure measured in mili seconds.
Go on the lyman site, they have a page to help folk work out how tall a front they need. My trapper did'nt have enough adjustment so as it's post is thick set I crushed it in a vise and cleaned it up and reblacked it. It gave me just enough hieght to get by on and a finer blade too
Nath.

[Old Savage]

I have this one (on top). It is the one you see in Jeff Quinn's Gunblast article. It shoots as you see in the article with 117 gr bullets - I used Win factory ammo. It is quite accurate. Those factory rds shot about as well as his 2460 handloads.

[Slick13]

My .25-35 does the same thing with bullet weights that differ that much. 75 gr. BTs at 2800 fps are lots higher than 117 gr. at 2300 fps with the same sight setting at the same range.

Does that make any sense to you? I thought a lighter bullet going faster would shoot flatter. I was suprised to see my gun shooting so much higher.

~Michael

[Slick13]

I fear friend that you do need a taller front site. The answer most definately not in changing powders or changing powder speeds and powder speeds have no bearing on the vel of the bullet in the amounts required to obtain your zero. Powder speeds only mean how quick they develope their pressure measured in mili seconds.

As I mentioned in my initial post, my experience with this gun and 117 grain bullets is that the slower the burn speed of the powder the flatter the gun seems to shoot. BLC-2 being the exception for some reason. But at similiar bullet speeds I see a noticable different in POI between reloads with RL15 vs. AA2460.

~Michael

[Hobie]

My .25-35 does the same thing with bullet weights that differ that much. 75 gr. BTs at 2800 fps are lots higher than 117 gr. at 2300 fps with the same sight setting at the same range.

Does that make any sense to you? I thought a lighter bullet going faster would shoot flatter. I was suprised to see my gun shooting so much higher.

~Michael

It does shoot flatter... but apparently the combination of 42 gr. lighter bullet and 600 fps higher velocity is radically different from the 117 gr. bullet loads. I've never seen such a difference with any other cartridge I've loaded/shot.

You could change the front sight but you'd have to change the front sight BACK to use the 117 gr. standard load. As I said, I shimmed my scope mount to use the light bullet load but the scope didn't have the necessary range of adjustment to use both bullet weights with the same mounting set up. I just didn't find the right combination of shim stock to be able to do that.

So, what I do now, when I use the fast load is to use the upper leg of the duplex reticule where it tapers to thin as a sort of inverted post and this puts me right on with the light loads. Does pretty well. That can't be done with a receiver or open sight.

I should also make clear that it isn't the powder that makes the difference, it is the velocity and bullet weight.

[Pisgah]

You're confusing a load "shooting flatter" with how the load impacts in relationship to the sights. Highspeed photography reveals that rifle barrels vibrate with every shot -- some just a little, but some virtually crack like a whip -- and bullet weight and velocity will cause a change in the frequency and amplitude of that vibration. In other words, with one load the bullet may exit when the muzzle is at its high point, while another may exit with the muzzle at its low point.

When you adjust your sights for a particular load, you are, among other things, taking this vibration into account -- in effect, cancelling out the vibration to make the bullet hit where you want. Sometimes, that's going to mean you need a higher or lower front sight, as there may not be enough rear sight adjustment to compensate. That load that shoots higher may, indeed, shoot flatter than another load -- but "flatter" only in comparison of the overall trajectories of those two loads. not of where the two may hit in relation to a particular sight setting.