Metering really fine powders and/or small charges

[AJMD429]

I hadn't used AA 1680 before, and man are the little spheres TINY...!

I may get out my RCBS powder measure for it; the Dillon and Lee both seem to let a few grains escape even when tightened down, and that gives me the creeps. I'll have to see if the RCBS I have goes down to the 0.5cc range accurately, though.

Anyway, came across this neat idea while looking at stuff - wish I'd invented it; seems like the best-of-both-worlds powder-trickler with gearing so you can go FAST or SLOW:


http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Quick-Trickle

[TedH]

My RCBS powder measure works fine with that powder and other similar powdes like AA #2 in charges small as 3 grains. Very little if any escapes the drum.

[earlmck]

Both my Redding and my ancient Herters meter those type powders just fine. I once tried a Lee measure but it disliked the fine powders so much it would lock the drum up from the "leakage". Got rid of that one.

I'll bet your RCBS handles the powder without a problem, other than the large diameter measure surface will probably make throwing a consistent light load a bit tricky.

[AJMD429]

I'll bet your RCBS handles the powder without a problem, other than the large diameter measure surface will probably make throwing a consistent light load a bit tricky.

I think I have a 'small' cylinder for it, and supposedly they throw down to half a grain, so hopefully up in the 9-10 grain range it will be reasonable.

I like the Lee but have been using it with 2400 and with IMR 'stick' powders, vs. these little microscopic AA-1680 ones.

[Old Savage]

On the other hand if you just level a dipper it should be very consistent. Use the counting blade on one of those MD pill knives that Case and others make.

[AJMD429]

On the other hand if you just level a dipper it should be very consistent. Use the counting blade on one of those MD pill knives that Case and others make.

I do like the Lee Dippers, actually, but the volume of the Blackout charges using AA-1680 are so small (0.5 to 0.7cc) and I want to load up ten different increments. Once I determine the 'best' load however, I could take a slightly-bigger Lee dipper, and just file down the top until it throws that exact amount. That's what I did years ago with a much-larger volume of powder for 44 Magnum.

[Tycer]

I screwed an 8-32 knurled screw into the bottom of one of my dippers to make it adjustable.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have three measures. 2 Redding #3`s and an RCBS Uni-flow (I think that is what they call it)
I have never had any powder escape the drums on any of them. I have read much on the Lee measures and their issues. No thanks!

[wolfdog]

My Lyman does fine with AA1680,Win 680, and Lil Gun.

[Don McDowell]

I am quite smitten by the Lyman dps1200, put whatever powder you choose in the hopper, tell it how many grains you want and that's what you get in the scale pan.. Put it on auto mode and the thing will work you to death if you let it rush you.

[AJMD429]

Now THIS would be a precision measure...

• http://harrellsprec.com/index.php?crn=4 ... how_detail

[mikld]

I got a C-H 502 powder measure for Christmas and it meters True Blue and WC820 quite well without spillage (both pretty fine ball/spherical powders). FWIW...

[AJMD429]

I got a C-H 502 powder measure for Christmas and it meters True Blue and WC820 quite well without spillage (both pretty fine ball/spherical powders). FWIW...

I'm interested in throwing charges in the 5 to 10 grain range with decent precision. My RCBS Uniflow just doesn't seem to do that well at all, even with the small 'pistol' cylinder, even though the company rep said it should. Charges vary by several tenths of a grain from throw to throw no matter how 'uniformly' I try to operate it, and I'm not talking about whether the hopper is full or nearly empty - one throw will be 8.3 grains and the very next one 8.7 (using AA-1680).

I either plan to thread an insert into the 'pistol' hole of the measure, and make my own threaded plunger, or buy a more accurate measure; haven't decided whether the high price tag of a measure that can throw very accurate charges is worth the labor and time involved in 'making my own' using the RCBS.

[J35]

I got a C-H 502 powder measure for Christmas and it meters True Blue and WC820 quite well without spillage (both pretty fine ball/spherical powders). FWIW...

I'm interested in throwing charges in the 5 to 10 grain range with decent precision. My RCBS Uniflow just doesn't seem to do that well at all, even with the small 'pistol' cylinder, even though the company rep said it should. Charges vary by several tenths of a grain from throw to throw no matter how 'uniformly' I try to operate it, and I'm not talking about whether the hopper is full or nearly empty - one throw will be 8.3 grains and the very next one 8.7 (using AA-1680).

I either plan to thread an insert into the 'pistol' hole of the measure, and make my own threaded plunger, or buy a more accurate measure; haven't decided whether the high price tag of a measure that can throw very accurate charges is worth the labor and time involved in 'making my own' using the RCBS.

I got the micrometer screw for my uniflow a few years ago and it seems to work quite well in the pistol drum.

I was loading some Hornet's last night with 7.5 of 820 and 9.5 of 680 and they stayed right on the money according to my Pact scale.

I use a lot of the fast pistol powder's in the SW Long from 1.6 gr up to 3 grains and it throws them very consistently.

I don't know if the Uniflows have changed in quality over the years or not but mine was bought new in 75.

---J

[AJMD429]

I got the micrometer screw for my uniflow a few years ago and it seems to work quite well in the pistol drum.

I was loading some Hornet's last night with 7.5 of 820 and 9.5 of 680 and they stayed right on the money according to my Pact scale.

I use a lot of the fast pistol powder's in the SW Long from 1.6 gr up to 3 grains and it throws them very consistently.

I don't know if the Uniflows have changed in quality over the years or not but mine was bought new in 75.

This is all of much interest to me even though a bit confusing; maybe there was some static or something, but the throws from my 1970's-vintage UniFlow were WAY off in the 9 to 10 grain region with AA-1680. I got far better results with the Lee Auto-Disk-Pro (plus it was way faster to adjust and repeatable from session to session).

In the past, I'd either used the Lee 'Dippers' or the Auto-Disk-Pro for just about everything, but everyone said how bad the Auto-Disk-Pro was so I figured I'd try it against the RCBS, and was expecting the RCBS to kick its butt, but found out the Lee was better than I expected.

I'll definitely have to do some more testing.

Looking at the diameter of the UniFlow's metering cylinder, I'd think more accuracy would be attained with a smaller diameter one.

[J35]

I got the micrometer screw for my uniflow a few years ago and it seems to work quite well in the pistol drum.

I was loading some Hornet's last night with 7.5 of 820 and 9.5 of 680 and they stayed right on the money according to my Pact scale.

I use a lot of the fast pistol powder's in the SW Long from 1.6 gr up to 3 grains and it throws them very consistently.

I don't know if the Uniflows have changed in quality over the years or not but mine was bought new in 75.

This is all of much interest to me even though a bit confusing; maybe there was some static or something, but the throws from my 1970's-vintage UniFlow were WAY off in the 9 to 10 grain region with AA-1680. I got far better results with the Lee Auto-Disk-Pro (plus it was way faster to adjust and repeatable from session to session).

In the past, I'd either used the Lee 'Dippers' or the Auto-Disk-Pro for just about everything, but everyone said how bad the Auto-Disk-Pro was so I figured I'd try it against the RCBS, and was expecting the RCBS to kick its butt, but found out the Lee was better than I expected.

I'll definitely have to do some more testing.

Looking at the diameter of the UniFlow's metering cylinder, I'd think more accuracy would be attained with a smaller diameter one.

This is what I do, not saying it is the best way or the only way, just the way I do it.

I use a baffle in my measure and the measure is mounted rock solid, I settle the powder in the measure by tapping the casting lightly for 5 to 10 seconds before I throw the first charge, then I tap the handle lightly at the top twice when filling the drum and once at the bottom when dropping the charge.

---J

[olyinaz]

The Redding Competition Pistol model is rated at small increments:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-e ... 39910.aspx

[AJMD429]

The Redding Competition Pistol model is rated at small increments...

I have one on my wish list, but it may be 'replaced' by the Harrell's 'Shuetzen' one - "Each click is .03 grains, that's 1/3 of 1/10 grain per click"...


http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-e ... 38248.aspx

It is interesting in that the measuring compartment adjusts laterally relative to the fill/throw direction.

[AJMD429]

Wow... tonsofmeasure

I splurged (actually, sold some stuff I didn't need) and got the Harrell's measure.

Just metered out some AA-1680 to test it:

First I just set it at "1000" on the micrometer-style scale, and it threw 13.3 grains, so I tried "750" to get about 3/4ths that amount, or 10.0 grains (the range I'm wanting to use for 300 AAC Blackout).

I quickly found out that at "748" it will give me 10.0 grains, and never in ten consecutive readings did I get a 10.1 or 9.9...!

The lowest amount I can really measure is 1.3 grains, and ten consecutive throws of that charge got me one 1.4 and two 1.2's.

Going up to 2.5 grains ("189" on the micrometer) I got another ten readings that never were off even by 0.1 grains.

Dialing to "190" - I got 9 readings of 2.5 grains and one of 2.6 grains
Dialing to "191" - I got 7 x 2.5 and 3 x 2.6
Dialing to "192" - I got 7 x 2.5 and 3 x 2.6
Dialing to "193" - I got 5 x 2.5 and 5 x 2.6
Dialing to "194" - I got 4 x 2.5 and 6 x 2.6
Dialing to "195" - I got 2 x 2.5 and 8 x 2.6
Dialing to "196" - I got ten readings of 2.6 grains
Dialing to "197" - I got 9 x 2.6 and 1 x 2.7
Dialing to "198" - I got 8 x 2.6 and 2 x 2.7
Dialing to "199" - I got 6 x 2.6 and 4 x 2.7
Dialing to "200" - I got 6 x 2.6 and 4 x 2.7

The way I read the Redding scale is to move the slider (small weight) until the pointer is closest to the line and I jostle it a couple times to verify whether the weight should be at the next position instead. The above measurements were not sequential either. What I also did was weigh one "193" charge several times and indeed it 'checked' at 2.5 grains 7 times and 2.6 grains 3 times (lifting charged scale-pan off hanger then replacing it each time) so I think the 'variation' in readings is more from me than the measure.

I will have to try checking it against my triple-beam balance tomorrow - the Redding scale I'm using really can't go past 0.1 grain.

The thing is incredible. WAY nicer for small charges than my RCBS or Lee.

Cons: tiny hopper (but only throws tiny charges so probably still holds enough for hundreds of reloads), and you have to dismount the measure and invert it to empty the hopper (same as my RCBS Uniflow, though). Looks like the hopper is a standard Nalgene bottle they cut a circular hole in the bottom of and supply a plug for. Actually, I think the hopper is a 240 or 250cc bottle, so with the size charges I'm throwing, that would be anywhere from 300 to 800 loads from a full bottle (plus you can add powder mid-session through the top cutout - just can't empty the thing without inverting the measure).


http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-e ... 38248.aspx

I ordered it directly from Harrell's and saved $47.99...!

• Harrell's - http://harrellsprec.com/index.php?crn=4 ... how_detail

P.S. I updated the thread title, because part of the issue was really accuracy with small charges.

[olyinaz]

Pretty dang nice looking tool. Enjoy!

[M. M. Wright]

Just have to tell earlmck that I too have an ancient Herter's powder measure that will measure anything with uncanny accuracy.
I did make a new screw adjustable measure to replace the one which had a cam to adjust it but the drum is the one it came with. About every 5 to 10 years I tear it down (when it gets sticky) clean it thoroughly and lube it with extra fine graphite. I do the same with both the Dillon measures too, my Pacific 12 gauge loader and the Lyman that I sometimes use for Black Powder. I even use the graphite for inside the neck lube. Have one of those multi-brush rigs and use the graphite instead of Motor Mica. (The white stuff.)
If you use a bullet feeder of any kind, it helps to tumble your already lubed bullets and shake a little Motor Mica on them. I use an old pepper shaker from a barbeque set. If you buy cast bullets they probably already have the white powder on them.

[earlmck]

Just have to tell earlmck that I too have an ancient Herter's powder measure that will measure anything with uncanny accuracy.

A "Model Perfect" no doubt, M.M. Still can't believe such a neat outfit went out of business. Cabela's is OK but there just is no replacing an institution like Herter's. Friend of mine has old George Leonard Herter's book "How to Live with a Bitch" and I am (and for you youngsters, he wasn't talking about dogs).

Couple of years ago I was passing through Burns OR and the wife just had to check out a quilt store. I found a pawn shop to browse and dang if he didn't have a Herter's pistol measure in new-but-dusty condition that just needed your clean + graphite to restore smooth operation. Think I gave $17.50 for it which was probably double the price when new, but great finds like that keep a fellow visiting the pawn shops. Doesn't have the fine adjustment capability of Doc's new Harrell's measure, but it throws the fine powders about that close, though I've just been using it to dispense the dab of granulated shot buffer I use as "filler" in a few of my cast loads...

I did make a new screw adjustable measure to replace the one which had a cam to adjust it

Oh man, that would make it "Perfect"! Wish I was capable of doing that: my cam adjustment on the old original is worn enough it takes two pair of pliers to get her cinched down.

[rogn]

The RCBS Little Dandy is good w/ fine ball powders, butof course the cyl/ drum volume is fixed, unless you use some imagination. I use a filler plug of plastic shim stock or old tupperware to "make adjustments". I rarely get any variance in charges, but you must develop a consistent technique. I use this on 6 different cartridges, loads from ~4 grains up to 26 grains. Cost is moderate, but the drums are starting to get pricey, hence the "tuning". Also very rapid to use compared to most measures.

[AJMD429]

Here's the results from checking ten throws (powder measure set on "748") on a milligram scale:

650 milligrams
651
649
649
651
648
650
650
651
648

. . . that translates to 'grains' as:

10.03 grains
10.05
10.02
10.02
10.05
10.00
10.03
10.03
10.05
10.00

Definitely a keeper...

[earlmck]

10.03 grains
10.05
10.02
10.02
10.05
10.00
10.03
10.03
10.05
10.00

Definitely a keeper...

Wow! Even my Herter's pistol measure can't compete with that!

[AJMD429]

I'm guessing part of the reason is that not only is the mechanism precise, but the shape of the cavity is very different than any other measure I've seen; the adjustment ram comes in from the side and the side of the whole cavity is exposed to the powder supply - like a channel cut down the side of a metal cylinder. The other thing is that AA-1680 is probably the best powder to measure a small amount of, since it is tiny little rolly-poly things. I think the combination of that shape cavity and that powder are perfect for one another.

Can't wait to make some more 300 Blackout loads, and see what seating them out to the rifling (for the Encore barrel) does for accuracy.

[milton]

I found this older post and just had to ask if the Harrell measure works well with flake powders like Unique?Is it better than a Redding measure? And I just have to ask,will it meter 800-x well?

[3leggedturtle]

I screwed an 8-32 knurled screw into the bottom of one of my dippers to make it adjustable.

WOW tip of the century wished i had thought/knew about that sooner. How much does/will it vary the dippers? Any specifics you can list?

[cshold]

Ya just need a good old school scale

[AJMD429]

I found this older post and just had to ask if the Harrell measure works well with flake powders like Unique?Is it better than a Redding measure? And I just have to ask,will it meter 800-x well?

I haven't done the 'study' where like I did with the 1680, but it does seem to throw sub-ten-grain charges of Unique repeatably within the sensitivity of my beam-balance. Don't have 800-x.

Don't have a Redding measure, but prowling in the benchrest shooters forums led me to believe there was not a better measure than the Harrell. It is not for large charges though, like a 7mm Mag full of 4831, or 45-70 full of Trail Boss, but perfect for the 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 300 Blackout, 32-20, 9mm, and so on. Hope to try it on a 17 Hornet soon.

[milton]

It sounds like a winner with the flake powders and handgun loads,which is what I would use the measure for!Thank you! Now if it would throw 800-x loads uniformly that would be just perfect!