Kentucky Windage

[earlmck]

Had another levergun show up here a few days ago. Savage 1899 in 303 Savage with a fine old Marbel's tang sight.

303Savonbags.jpg

So I loaded up a few rounds using some of that PRVI Partisan brass I bought a few months ago when I first thought I should get ready to load 303 Savage...

303Savammo.jpg

Yesterday was a little less than beautiful with 35 degree temp and 20 knot breeze, but cabin fever was bad enough I went to the range anyway. Set up a target at 25 yards to see if we were going to be ballpark sighted in. Nope, pretty close for elevation but a good 3" left at just 25 yards. So that would be a foot off to the left at 100 yards, and this rifle was made in 1914. Do you suppose it has shot way left for almost 100 years?

202Savaims.jpg

And I have to say this is not that surprising: when I shoot one of these new acquisitions it is not at all unusual for the iron sights to be quite a bit off. Scopes are a different story, and if it is a scope that was put on the gun by a previous owner for his use it is generally pretty dang close to on, with any differences easily attributed to differences in ammo.

And looking back on my early days, we did a fair amount of shooting and never touched iron sights other than the little elevation slider. If a gun shot a bit left or right we just held off a bit to compensate. I didn't realize you could drift those sights over to make them look where the gun was shooting until I was embarrassingly old. I have a feeling my dad didn't know about moving the sights: his old '94 shot about 4" left at 100 yards and we just held off a bit (if we remembered!).

So what do you think: did the old-timers know they could drift their sights over a bit if needed? I'll tell you now that I have no knowledge that my dad or any of my uncles knew they could adjust an iron sight for windage. But they all seemed to hit whatever needed hitting. I suspect most of the old guns left the factory fairly close to "on" and that was all that saved them.

[20cows]

The J C Higgins 22 I used when a young lad shot to the left with non adjustable sights. I killed lots of rabbits with it.

[spaceman spiff]

Cool gun..... the 99 is next on my list..... But which chambering




spaceman

[Pitchy]

I think they as we do now liked the looks of their guns so much that the idea of having a sight off center was not exceptable.
I know i hate having fixed sights off center and will compensate my hold rather than move the sight.

[Gobblerforge]

A little shim under the side of the tang sight will help move it's apperature slightly left or right. Hope it helps.
Gobbler

[Pisgah]

That peep does look a bit canted to the left. Shim it -- problem solved.

[bdhold]

A little shim under the side of the tang sight will help move it's apperature slightly left or right. Hope it helps.
Gobbler

this is a great solution, maybe combined with a final tweak on the front sight position next time at the range?
Will it slide in its dovetail?

[Griff]

A little shim under the side of the tang sight will help move it's apperature slightly left or right. Hope it helps.
Gobbler

this is a great solution, maybe combined with a final tweak on the front sight position next time at the range?
Will it slide in its dovetail?

That peep does look a bit canted to the left. Shim it -- problem solved.

Yep, problem solved.

And, yes, I think those old timers knew about moving sights as well as we do. Did they do it? I've gotten guns with the sights all over the place, so I think, yes... they did. Sometimes... but Pitchy is also probably right as much as some of us, even today, don't care for the look of an unbalanced gun.

[kimwcook]

I agree with Griff. I think some moved'em and some didn't. I personally don't like remembering which gun shoots where so mine get moved. I don't like the looks of sights being lopsided, but the alternative is I miss a shot or place one where I don't want. So they get moved. I think in times past most people didn't have the money to have more than one or two rifles so remembering where their particular rifle shot wasn't a problem. I can't hardly remember what I had for yesterday's lunch.

[rjohns94]

As always, the experts have already chimed in. So I will just have to say + 1 to griff,kimwcook, and pitchy. Pitchy, I agree whole heartedly with your unbalanced comment. Before understanding about barrel turning and other tricks, I would get rid of a rifle or pistol that I could not get to shoot to poa without being unbalanced. Just couldn't trust myself to believe that the gun was made crooked. With the help of expErts, I have discovered that it was me that was a little crooked in my thinking.

[kimwcook]

Whoa there, Mike. I'm no expert. I'm closely approaching a has been, but I don't leak underpressure.

[horsesoldier03]

I took my daughter out shooting the other day. Her scope wasnt quite working out, it kept hitting the IRONS and wasnt focused. I didnt take any tools with me so I ended up just taking it off at the mounts. Anyways, we adjusted the iron sights and got them so the elevation was on, but the gun was still shooting about 1/2" to the right at 25 yrds. My answer to her is always remember it shoots a bit to the right and aim just left of your target. We loaded up a few more times and she was hitting the 1" square target almost dead center. So I suspect most just kind of learn the gun and aim accordingly.

[earlmck]

Cool gun..... the 99 is next on my list..... But which chambering

Yeah, every levernut should have a 99 or several... they're not making them any more! And this is in the 303 Savage. If you look at the picture showing the cartridges you'll see they look an awful lot like 30wcf. If I don't have them side-by-side I have to look at the headstamp the tell apart. Pretty much use 30wcf load data, but my brass shows just a scosh less powder capacity in the 303 so I'll use 30wcf data with moderation...

And thanks for the thoughts, levergunners. I hadn't thought of the aesthetic question, and I doubt it would have been much of a trouble to my dad, etc. I agree that they used so few guns that they just "Kentucky windaged" it and that was that. I'm also betting that if a gun shot far enough off to be a problem they just traded it off.

Yes, I'll do a little shimming to the sight arrangement before I go back out with it. I could handle a couple inches off per hundred yards but a foot is way more than I am going to tolerate. And this particular model of 1899 has a blade pinned in a slot rather than the dovetail we usually see, so all adjustment has to come from the rear.

[ollogger]

Earl nice looking old 99, did ya find it in Maine?
Had one back in the 70s paid $100,00 for it
my rear sight has to be off to the left on all my irons, not sure if
its my big shoulders or my fat head ?

[earlmck]

Earl nice looking old 99, did ya find it in Maine?
Had one back in the 70s paid $100,00 for it
my rear sight has to be off to the left on all my irons, not sure if
its my big shoulders or my fat head ?

Yeah, my fat head probably accounts for a couple inches left per 100 yards, so anything over that I try to correct

And this rifle got "liberated" out of Florida. You and madman4570 steered me to that nice one in Maine and I looked at it purty hard. Then this one showed up for approx. the same $ amount but had the tang sight included which gave it the value edge in my mind.

[1894c]

Nice gun and cartridge earlmck -- a good buddy back east uses the same gun and cartridge deer hunting. He got it from his grandfather when we were in our 20's, been using it ever since. I think it's the only deer rifle he has... :)

[Griff]

Whoa there, Mike. I'm no expert. I'm closely approaching a has been, but I don't leak underpressure.

+1