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... General Robert E. Lee! And tomorrow is General Stonewall Jackson's birthday!!!
I was called to jury duty late last year (an honor, I believe). I wasn't chosen, but was happy to do my civic duty. I had never been to the county courthouse before, having only moved to South Carolina a couple years ago. The county is York, and the courthouse had two pictures hanging, one on either side of the judge. On one side was General Lee, and on the other was General Jackson.
Lee was an interesting and admirable person. I have often thought he would have made a good president.
I have always been a student of the mid 1800's. Being from Ohio born and raised, and being a supporter for states rights as opposed to federal government control, I have pondered for years what my decision would have been when the call to arms was made. The scope of the war changed so much from start to end. I understand that always haunted Lee.
Gobbler
Lee's birthday was last week. Same as MLK's... funny ain't it. "He that sits in the heavens shall laugh."
I have a biography about Robert E. Lee. In it he is quoted at one point about 12 years after the end of the war when he said if he had known just how bad the Federals would have treated the South after the war he would have never surrendered. He didn't want to continue in a protracted guerrilla war as he thought it was dishonorable.
Rusty <><
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
RIHMFIRE wrote:If Lee had only listened to Longstreet at Gettysberg,
What would things be like now? mmmm.
Yep things would have been different. But The Confederacy didnt have the men or the resorces to win. If Lee had swung around to the right it would have drawn the war out longer but I think the ending would have been the same.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy Semper Fidelis
There were honorable men on both sides of that horrible conflagration. But, in reference to this: (And this is not a personal flame)
I have a biography about Robert E. Lee. In it he is quoted at one point about 12 years after the end of the war when he said if he had known just how bad the Federals would have treated the South after the war he would have never surrendered. He didn't want to continue in a protracted guerrilla war as he thought it was dishonorable.
I personally don't think God was on the side that would have continued slavery. Maybe the losing got a little taste of being ground down with a foot on the back of your necks so as to never, ever try to repeat such a dismal chapter, such as slavery, ever again.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
BlaineG wrote:There were honorable men on both sides of that horrible conflagration. But, in reference to this: (And this is not a personal flame)
I have a biography about Robert E. Lee. In it he is quoted at one point about 12 years after the end of the war when he said if he had known just how bad the Federals would have treated the South after the war he would have never surrendered. He didn't want to continue in a protracted guerrilla war as he thought it was dishonorable.
I personally don't think God was on the side that would have continued slavery. Maybe the losing got a little taste of being ground down with a foot on the back of your necks so as to never, ever try to repeat such a dismal chapter, such as slavery, ever again.
Slavery in the south was already on the slow road out when the war started. Most of the men that fought for the southern cause didnt fight for slavery, They fought against a strong federal government that they saw was undermining their states rights. General Lee was well know for freeing his slaves Stonewall Jackson never even owned slaves. Slave owners were the exception not the rule in the south roughly 80% of the white population didnt own slaves.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy Semper Fidelis
My God....look at the strife that has been caused just in this country by slavery. I know many, many southerners who still morne their family "property" being taken away and the financial ruin it caused. Please. It is also my personal opinion that the United States and the Confederate States would not have survived the last century apart.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
My ancestors fought on both sides - a literal brother against brother situation. None ever owned a slave. Looking back through the 20/20 hindsight of history, the Confederates were 110% correct on the states rights issue. 110% wrong on slavery, but as Jeremy noted, it was already on it's way out with technological innovations as well as changing attitudes. I think reconstruction actually set back race relations by several decades - if not generations. I have lived in the south now for a quarter of my life - all as an adult - and can say that I see very little racism. I have seen more up north than here.
Just my opinion - everyone's entitled to their own!
"Bout a month off, there. Both the Lee and Jackson birthdays are in January--not February. Lee's is the 19th and Jackson's the 21st. I always thought it was nice that my late mother's birthday fell between theirs, on the 20th. And they all get my highest respect.
Thanks for your post! As a transplanted "Northerner" brought to the south as a career military man, I feel the "War between the States" to be a dark chapter in an otherwise wonderful history of a truly free society. Maybe it was just what this country needed "at that time" to show us the need for "cooperation and consideration". In my opinion, after living for a time in the far east as a buffer(literally) between Muslims and Israel, any type of prejudice or racism is simply wrong. Just my 2 cents, likely worth even less.
We are responsible for leaving the same legacy of freedom and rights given to us for our children and grandchildren.
I live in Detroit. I saw a few, and I mean only a few, battle flags displayed on Lee's birthday.
If we know the right date up here with our homogeneous population, how do people in other parts of the country mistake the date by a month? Isn't it stil a holiday in some states?
I sometimes ask myself, "Why refight the Civil War, when nobody is gonna change their mind anyway?" I now try to take the different approach of honoring those who fought honorably on both sides(Lee for sure), and as an individual, learn from errors that both sides made. I admire Lee very much. I would highly recommend visiting the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond which has Lee's stuff as well as others in High Command(Stuart, Jackson...etc) Very neat!:
C. Cash wrote:Why refight the Civil War in the 21st century, when nobody is gonna change their mind anyway? I think a good approach is to honor those who fought honorably on both sides(Lee for sure), and as an individual learn from errors that both sides made. I admire Lee very much. I would highly recommend visiting the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond which has Lee's stuff as well as others in High Command(Stuart, Jackson...etc) Very neat!:
Excuse me please....but as a man who spent a LOT of his life as a military man, I'd NEVER say that anyone who lost their life in defense of their country or way of life, need apologize for anything! I promise you that I have spent more hours in more military cemetaries(all over this world) thinking about war and it's toll than anyone you have ever known, PERIOD! This is a very serious subject to me...not a simple...opinion. I said and meant NO disrespect for any soldier Pvt or General.
We are responsible for leaving the same legacy of freedom and rights given to us for our children and grandchildren.
Ed, I wasn't talking to you at all. I was talking to myself really. It would have been better if I started with "I ask myself why we refight the Civil War over again......" No judgement implied on anyone here. Just stating what I've learned from endless talking to others about it. It turns into one guy saying it's black and another guy saying it white and neither of them budge. But, even with that, it is still neat to talk about though! PS: and I think you misunderstood about me asking for someone to apologize. I meant no such implecation. There's scoundrels in every bunch, but these folks acted honorably on their convictions. So, I'm saying the opposite.
Edit: I have made changes to my original post so that I am more clear.
Last edited by C. Cash on Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Mr Cash,
Our thoughta are more alike than I had thought and I apologize. Thank you for correcting my, possibly, overzealous attitude. It was not meant in any way to be conflictive, or righteous, I promise!
We are responsible for leaving the same legacy of freedom and rights given to us for our children and grandchildren.
Funny how foks still believe the Civil War was about slavery...
It was really between an egrarian society and an industrial society, and began between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton wanted factories as in England, and Jefferson wanted farms.
The money... look to where the money was going to be made and you'll see why there was a civil war. Poor southerners and poor yankees fighting it out so that some industrialist can go ahead and secure a fortune for himself in GA rather than NY.
The whole issue of slavery, (which was falling out of favor anyway at the time,) was whispered in ears around the Ladies Auxillary tea tables and the Universities as a smear against the South.
People up north still think it's a race riot down here, when in reality it's far worse up north.
Been to Boston? There's black sections, hispanic sections, and everything in between sections. Then there are the white sections: towns like Marble head, Groton, Lexington, Concord... priced so far out of range, they keep any and all "undesirables" out of town. That is unless they have lots of money.
I went to a Red Sox game last may and after a few innings realized something was amiss.
Couldn't put my finger on it until the 7th inning or so.
I realized I hadn't seen a black person inside of Fenway for the whole game, and then made it a point to LOOK for any.
Walking out, I saw one black dude with a white girl, and drunken Bostonites were glaring at him as they went. I even heard someone make the remark, "Someone is in the WRONG neigborhood...".
The Civil War had less to do with racial equality than it did for state's rights and industrialization. Welcome to the future.
Though an obvious Yankee , I think James McPherson did a really good and fair job of describing the root causes, and both viewpoints of the Civil War in his "Battle Cry of Freedom". It is a great book that opened my eyes as to the many complexities/causes that led to the conflict. He is not so objective in some of his earlier writings and one in particular that takes a hard line on Lee. So, this book shocked me in how complete and largely objective it was.
My ggGrandDad Cash fought in the Confederate 5th Tenn. Cavalry(McKenzie's) under Fightin Joe Wheeler throughout the War. They were at Perryville, Chickamauga, Chattanooga/Missionary Ridge, All the many battles against Sherman toward and for Atlanta, fought Sherman's march to the Sea and at the final battle of Bentonville.....hundreds of other smaller battles and engagements. It always amazed me that these men would stay the course when they were nearly naked, no shelter, almost always half-starved, and their families starved and harrassed at home. The committment and honor of these fellas on both sides is inspiring to me. They felt DEEPLY and were ready to act. I hope to have that much courage when the time comes.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
trapper45 wrote:"Bout a month off, there. Both the Lee and Jackson birthdays are in January--not February. Lee's is the 19th and Jackson's the 21st. I always thought it was nice that my late mother's birthday fell between theirs, on the 20th. And they all get my highest respect.
trapper45 -
Not sure how I got those messed up on my calendar - but as you correctly pointed out, I sure did! Robert E. Lee was born January 19, 1807. Stonewall Jackson was born January 21, 1824.
I'm going to correct both now!!! (I had them saved, incorrectly, on my Outlook calendar!)
, I think James McPherson did a really good and fair job of describing the root causes, and both viewpoints of the Civil War in his "Battle Cry of Freedom". It is a great book that opened my eyes as to the many complexities/causes that led to the conflict. He is not so objective in some of his earlier writings and one in particular that takes a hard line on Lee. So, this book shocked me in how complete and largely objective it was. 
It still stirs great passions in many of us for sure. Thank you Sir!