Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
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Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Lucked into this gun at a pawn shop, although I certainly didn't steal it. He didn't know much about 86s, but he sure made a good guess on his price, IMHO. Has blue left in protected areas and CCH left in non-exposed areas (under the wood, etc). Though the metal doesn't have much finish left, it is in nice shape - no big pits or anything like that. Bore is about as close to new as one sees on a 86, particularly a first year gun. All matching numbers, all correct. Mechanically excellent. The gun actually looks nicer in hand than in the pictures. The lighting when I took the pics makes the metal look worse than it is.
I was thinking of shooting it and CAREFULLY taking a deer with it this year. A dealer I know is extremely interested in it, though, which has me curious what it is actually worth. When I bought it, I figured it would bring somewhere between $2500 and $3500 (big range, but a correct 3-digit gun might bring some additional money out of the woodwork even with little finish left. Of additional interest, the name "P. Istas" is stamped under the buttplate. Istas, from what I can gather, is a Cheyenne name and most of the Istases I've found were from Kansas to Colorado. Seems fitting for an 86 to have a previous owner so-named.
The only real bugaboos are a non-factory hole in the upper tang for a tang sight (no biggie) and a non-factory hole in the lower tang for some unknown reason. The dealer I know thinks some knucklehead put it there to be able to oil the insides without disassembling the gun. The tang sight hole in the upper tang doesn't go all the way through the upper tang, so we know the lower hole has nothing to do with it. Thankfully, the lower tang hole is small and under the lever.
Anywho, curious on people's opinions of the gun, who P. Istas might have been, and the value. I'm currently trying to decide what to do with it and group think sometimes helps.
I was thinking of shooting it and CAREFULLY taking a deer with it this year. A dealer I know is extremely interested in it, though, which has me curious what it is actually worth. When I bought it, I figured it would bring somewhere between $2500 and $3500 (big range, but a correct 3-digit gun might bring some additional money out of the woodwork even with little finish left. Of additional interest, the name "P. Istas" is stamped under the buttplate. Istas, from what I can gather, is a Cheyenne name and most of the Istases I've found were from Kansas to Colorado. Seems fitting for an 86 to have a previous owner so-named.
The only real bugaboos are a non-factory hole in the upper tang for a tang sight (no biggie) and a non-factory hole in the lower tang for some unknown reason. The dealer I know thinks some knucklehead put it there to be able to oil the insides without disassembling the gun. The tang sight hole in the upper tang doesn't go all the way through the upper tang, so we know the lower hole has nothing to do with it. Thankfully, the lower tang hole is small and under the lever.
Anywho, curious on people's opinions of the gun, who P. Istas might have been, and the value. I'm currently trying to decide what to do with it and group think sometimes helps.
.........THE TWINS..........
- J Miller
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
To be honest that is the kind of experienced rifle I like. Were it mine it would become a permanent member of my lever gun community and I'd be shooting it as much as I could.
Joe
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Joe,
Your experienced comment reminded me - the left side of the buttplate has 7 notches filed in it. I am guessing they represent game animals. Sure would like to know the story there.
Your experienced comment reminded me - the left side of the buttplate has 7 notches filed in it. I am guessing they represent game animals. Sure would like to know the story there.
.........THE TWINS..........
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Looks pretty good to me however the telling tail to me would be how much I had to lay out to drag it home !
It looks like a good one for Ranch Dog 460-350GC bullets and a goodly amount of XMP5744 .
It looks like a good one for Ranch Dog 460-350GC bullets and a goodly amount of XMP5744 .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
OR....it could be 7 bad guys, or 7 Indians, or ....... whoever we were fighting back thencubrock wrote:Joe,
Your experienced comment reminded me - the left side of the buttplate has 7 notches filed in it. I am guessing they represent game animals. Sure would like to know the story there.
Whatever, real nice piece of history there!
Walt
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
To be honest if I had been you I most likely would have bought it as well . With the intention of playing with it a bit and eventually trying to roll it over and make a couple bucks .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- kimwcook
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
I can't help with any information other than I wouldn't let it go and I'd shoot it. The only thing I could see that'd make it better is an octagon barrel and that's wholly a personal choice.
Old Law Dawg
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Sika,
Sorry for the confusion. I own it (I did buy it from the pawn shop, but wasn't able to "steal" it), but was considering moving it out as I simplify my life. Haven't shot it, but have been mighty tempted to do so and hunt with it this season before making up my mind whether to keep it. Anywho, that is why I was seeking comments and opinions. I'm currently sitting the fence on it.
I'm particularly curious what you guys think it is worth in a real world, money changing hands deal. The dealer who wants it is looking at it as a $2500 gun, which means he is willing to put $2 grand in it, give or take a few dollars with dickering. I was thinking it might go into the threes for the right buyer. However, I have never paid that much attention to the 86 market because I've rarely been in a position to buy one. When I bought this one, I just happened to have enough extra cash from moving some assets around.
Sorry for the confusion. I own it (I did buy it from the pawn shop, but wasn't able to "steal" it), but was considering moving it out as I simplify my life. Haven't shot it, but have been mighty tempted to do so and hunt with it this season before making up my mind whether to keep it. Anywho, that is why I was seeking comments and opinions. I'm currently sitting the fence on it.
I'm particularly curious what you guys think it is worth in a real world, money changing hands deal. The dealer who wants it is looking at it as a $2500 gun, which means he is willing to put $2 grand in it, give or take a few dollars with dickering. I was thinking it might go into the threes for the right buyer. However, I have never paid that much attention to the 86 market because I've rarely been in a position to buy one. When I bought this one, I just happened to have enough extra cash from moving some assets around.
.........THE TWINS..........
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
I'd put it at $2000 (for the right buyer) based on the overall condition and some tampering (the holes, notches, etc.). I am a very good candidate to buy a working 86 with some histoy in decent condition, but I personally would not be willing to pay that for the one you propose. Again, for personal reasons I'd be serious about it for 1/2 of that. However, for the right buyer, and to determine a realistic asking price, looking at some of the larger antique firearms dealers, Cabelas Gun Room and recent (this years) auctions, there are 4 digit guns with no tampering that went for $1500-$1900, some with no serial # listed but in similar condition that went for $1200-$2250 and several that are first 6 year guns with more color and overall better original condition that went for $1800-2600. In comparison to "fine" condition, there are three that I found that respectively were described as 75% all original, retains 80% blue and 70% wood with bright bores and excellent cosmetic condition shows little use and great care along with no mechanical issues or non-factory additions. These sold for $2200, $2800 and $3200. One observation is that the geographical area, overall size of dealer and reputation clearly inflate or deflate the actual price settled upon. For example, Cabelas is known for higher pricing but they have an outstanding reputation as a company, Wildwood does not advertise much and has low overhead and is geographically known in the N.E., Little John's Auctions brought less than the predicted window in their CA and NV auctions that had 1886's. I also feel a rifle like yours is hard to get a premium out of on the internet sale sites because the potential buyer really needs to see and handle the gun first person to realize what it actually is and overcome any hesitations. Good Luck!
Professional Hunter
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http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"
Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
- Sixgun
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Cubrock,
3 digit guns of any classic firearm will bring a good premium. Like a good 30%. Any 1886 that is original with no finish is a 1500 gun. Your has a shotgun butt which is another 20%. The wood is clean and the screws are unbuggered which shows that it ain't been ****** with.
Put it on the internet and you won't have no problem getting 3 g's or a bit more.
Extra holes are bad but collectors look at the age of the gun. You really think someone is gonna turn his nose up at a Henry because it has a bad bore or a extra hole in an unobtrusive place?
I call your gun a GFO gun. Which means "go find one" with a 3 digit number. There's still plenty of deep pockets here in the good ole US of A -----------Sixgun
3 digit guns of any classic firearm will bring a good premium. Like a good 30%. Any 1886 that is original with no finish is a 1500 gun. Your has a shotgun butt which is another 20%. The wood is clean and the screws are unbuggered which shows that it ain't been ****** with.
Put it on the internet and you won't have no problem getting 3 g's or a bit more.
Extra holes are bad but collectors look at the age of the gun. You really think someone is gonna turn his nose up at a Henry because it has a bad bore or a extra hole in an unobtrusive place?
I call your gun a GFO gun. Which means "go find one" with a 3 digit number. There's still plenty of deep pockets here in the good ole US of A -----------Sixgun
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
That's a very nice rifle considering all. I agree with Sixgun about the premium for the SB but would guess considerably more premium for the three-digit number,maybe 50%. The round barrel knocks it back down a little. The kill notches, IMO, do not diminish the value and if anything make it all the more interesting. Same with the name, although I'm guessing the name is not that of the original owner.
The third hole in the upper tang is correct. The early 86s had three. Your empty one is the tang sight mounting hole that is on all 86s and doesn't fully penetrate. The middle one is the carrier spring screw which on later guns doesn't come all the way through from the other side.
The bottom "oiler" is certainly a mystery.
With the bore in fine condition and the operations all in order, I'd keep it and shoot it for sure. But if you chose to sell, I'd guess high 2s to low 3s on Gunbroker.
Good luck whatever you decide!
The third hole in the upper tang is correct. The early 86s had three. Your empty one is the tang sight mounting hole that is on all 86s and doesn't fully penetrate. The middle one is the carrier spring screw which on later guns doesn't come all the way through from the other side.
The bottom "oiler" is certainly a mystery.
With the bore in fine condition and the operations all in order, I'd keep it and shoot it for sure. But if you chose to sell, I'd guess high 2s to low 3s on Gunbroker.
Good luck whatever you decide!
Chad
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
You now own something you'll never have a chance to own again.. I'd keep it and put it to some gentle use..enjoy it.. and keep in mind what an Obama Inflated Dollar is really worth.. even three thousand of 'em....just my humble opinion.. Les
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
+1J Miller wrote:To be honest that is the kind of experienced rifle I like. Were it mine it would become a permanent member of my lever gun community and I'd be shooting it as much as I could.
Joe
i am with you !! exactly the kind i like , wonderful honest old timer that you csn use and really enjoy.
cable
Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
I would use it with good weather conditions and enjoy. But I also have a friend who is in his seventies who's father left him some really fine rifles who say's his father told him if its to good to use, sell it to a collector!
- Rube Burrows
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
Good on you!!
I think the first thing I would do is try and find some history on it, see if you can get any paper work from Cody, if you knew who owned it first that might she a little light on the notches in the but plate.
Terry
I think the first thing I would do is try and find some history on it, see if you can get any paper work from Cody, if you knew who owned it first that might she a little light on the notches in the but plate.
Terry
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
post some pics on Winchester Collectors site....a lot of knowledgable collectors there...I'm guessing that it'd bring closer to 5K than 2K. Problem is that I'm still a novice at the old winchesters but Bert Hartman there is not. Nice find!
SASS 4146
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
longarm4146 wrote:post some pics on Winchester Collectors site....a lot of knowledgable collectors there...I'm guessing that it'd bring closer to 5K than 2K. Problem is that I'm still a novice at the old winchesters but Bert Hartman there is not. Nice find!
Longarm,
What part of NC are you in? I'm in the western Piedmont. If you are nearby, you can see it in person and maybe shoot it.
Thanks for the tip!
.........THE TWINS..........
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Re: Curious what you think of this 3-digit 1886 Winchester 45/70
sent ya a pm, but am located in north central piedmont, right on Va line. 40 miles north of greensboro.
SASS 4146
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