The 1886 is "Twice the Gun" of a 1895

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:18 pm

In another topic about the quality of Marlin rifles I mentioned my apprehension about buying a new Marlin 1895SBL. I got a lot of good response. However, I got a couple responses that simply advised that I buy a Winchester 1886 because it was twice the gun as the Marlin. So I've got a couple questions regarding that response.

These are questions - not challenges.

What can the 1886 do that the 1895 can't?

Just what makes the 1886 "twice the gun" of the 1895?

I've asked similar questions to friends that have both an 1886 and an 1895, and most of them said that for practical purposes the two guns were equal. Some mentioned that 1886 was stronger, but that a scope could be mounted on the 1895. I found both of these reasons somewhat irrelevant since the 45/70 Govt., even in +P, could easily be handled by both guns, and a 45/70 hardly needs for a scope.

So anyway, if you would, please explain why the 1886 is superior to the 1895. I would like to know. Thanks.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:27 pm

IMNSHO, the Marlin cannot handle 45-70 Govt "+P" loadings. The modern made 1886 (Miroku) can.

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:38 pm

Some reading for you

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... erguns.htm

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:04 pm

Griff wrote:IMNSHO, the Marlin cannot handle 45-70 Govt "+P" loadings. The modern made 1886 (Miroku) can.

And your "not so humble opinion" is based on what?

According to Sundles of Buffalo Bore, their 45/70 Magnum ammo will work in the Marlin 1895. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=150

Is this not true? Have you seen Marlin 1895s fail when using 45/70 Govt +P (more than SAAMI pressure limits - which is very low for the 45/70) ammo that was responsibly loaded? Please, give more than the one line statement, convince us.

If the question was "is the modern 1886 stronger than the Marlin 1895," I think the answer would be yes. But for practical purposes, for responsible real life hunters, is the strength issue a real one? Please let me know if it is. Thanks.

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:11 pm

Warhawk wrote:Some reading for you

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... erguns.htm

Read it. I guess if one is going to shoot loads approaching a 458 Winchester, then the Model 1886 strength is a plus in its corner. But I wouldn't use either rifle for some of the loads suggested by PACO - I'd get a suitable bolt action chambered in 458 Winchester. And to be quite honest, there are some loads that PACO uses, in many different chamberings, that I wouldn't let near any of my guns.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:17 pm

Admittedly I am biased toward the '86 Winchester. When strength and mechanics are taken into consideration it is, without any doubt, a far superior rifle to the Marlin. The Marlin 336, which the 1895 is by the way, has only a single locking lug beneath the bolt, similar to the 1894 Winchester. The 1886, on the other hand has twin locking lugs hold the bolt securely on either side of the massive receiver, making the gun virtually "bulletproof". My original Winchesters have digested loads that would fret a Marlin 1895(nee 336). The Marlin is fine for moderately heavy loads as Paco's article suggests, but not recommended for the stoutest ones. Leave those to the 1886 Winchester, Ruger No 1 and Siamese Mauser bolt action. Do not use them in the imported British SMLE .45-70 conversions that are being currently sold.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:36 pm

Idiot,

I like the 86 (I have a Browning SRC) in preference to the Marlin 1895 (as mfg since 1972) just because. I have Marlins. I like them. I shoot them. I hunt with them. I don't see anything wrong with them. However, I still prefer the 1886 to the Marlin 1895, just because, and so much so that I've passed by the 1895s of 1972 vintage even though at the time they were first released I lusted after them and got the 1886 Browning. Just because. "Just because" is an excellent reason to get what you want in the realm of firearms. It is a hobby and you should enjoy your hobby. So, for me, the "just because" factor makes the Browning 1886 twice the gun compared to the post-1972 Marlin 1895. Might be different for you, only you will know.

If intent on buying a post-1972 Marlin 1895 I would not buy a NEW gun. I'd look for one made back in the 1972 era with the straight stock and 3/4 length magazine. I personally think that that stock fits me best, that that conformation is the most attractive and that quality 1972-1982 is about as good as Marlin got. Why? Just because...

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:06 pm

Buy what you want !

Personally I like the original Marlin 1895's more so then the original Winchester 1886's .

I also like the post 1972 Marlin 1895/336 better then the recent manufacture 1886's .

Now with that being said I no longer wish to have a Marlin 1895/336 that was made after 1979 . And prefer the ones from 1972 matter of fact the only Marlin 1895 I own at present was manufactured in 1972 imagine that !

An 1886 of the newer variety is of no use to me personally . I cannot mount a scope on it as it came from the factory which I can readily do with the circa 1972 Marlin . Now I realize some folks don't want a scope and thats on them . However for ME personally thats a big consideration .

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:23 pm

I've had both, and was very pleased with both. The '86 is a stronger action, but if you are using normal loads, this won't really be a factor. My Marlin 1895 was made in the mid 80's. The fit and finish was excellent as well as the function. Some advantages of the 1895:

1. easier/quicker levering. The strength and design of the '86 comes at a cost when it comes to levering in another round.
2. Side eject
3. You can easily mount a scope on a Marlin and it also looks good with a scope.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:43 pm

I don't have either but I would like to have an '86 while the '95 holds no fascination for me whatsoever. When I cycle the action on an '86 it just sounds sweet.

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:01 pm

I understand the "vanilla verses chocolate" or the " just because" argrument. All of us have personal preferences. However, when one says the 1886 is twice as good as the 1895, I want to know why. I want to know what I'm missing.

I happen to like the 1895SBL. I think it is a well thought out and excuted tool. I like the laminates stock, the stainless steel construction, the oversized lever, the sight set-up, full length magazine, and short un-ported barrel. These are my preferences. However, I do not think it is practically any better than the other 1895 Models, it is simply what I prefer. I could own any of the other 1895 models and they'd do the job just as well or could be modified to do it.

The 1886 is stronger than the 1895, that is without question. But unless I want to load very high pressure ammo, nipping at the heels of a 458 Winchester, that extra strength is meaningless - to me. If I wanted to nip at the 458's heels or simply wanted an extra margin of strength, that extra strength would be very meaningful. Short of a scope, both guns can be set-up with equally good sights, although the Marlin's receiver does allow for other sights, like the Fast Fire II, to more easily mounted. I don't like safeties on either modern rifle, but I can put up with Marlin's but cannot put up with the rebounding hammer of the newer 1886. The rebounding hammer affects trigger pull and is redundant to point of reminding me of Al Gore (answering questions that were never asked). To avoid Modern 1886 set-up I have to go back in time to either find an older Browning or Winchester without a safety. And in the case of the Winchester, I'm now loosing some of that strength factor, and the cost now begins to sky rocket. So, I'm now left with paying twice as much than I'd pay for the Marlin, and in my worthless opinion, not getting twice as much gun.

Now an 1895SBL sells for around $800. A modern Japanese 1886, with safety and rebounding hammer, sells for around $1,300. And an older Winchester 1886 sells from $2,000 up. So in my world, with all things considered, the Marlin is at least close to equalling the 1886, and is certainly not half the rifle - practically speaking.

Now, if someone on this board were to lay a pre-safety 1886 Winchester or Browning on a table, along with a 1895SBL, and a Modern 1886 Winchester, and say take which ever one you want, I'd take the pre-safety 1886 Winchester, but prefer it were Browning, and leave the others. If I showed up late and Hobie had already take the pre-safety 1886, I'd take the 1895SBL unless I knew I could sell the Modern 1886 quick so I could buy the Marlin and pocket the profit. These choices would, however, all be made based on personal preference, or "just because," because for all practical purposes all the guns on the table are suitable for any hunting the 45/70 Government cartridge is suited for.

There have been some good responses, and strength seems to be the one superior aspect of the 1886. Please let us know where the others are, because we've not yet reached "twice the gun."

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:11 pm

KirkD wrote:I've had both, and was very pleased with both. The '86 is a stronger action, but if you are using normal loads, this won't really be a factor. My Marlin 1895 was made in the mid 80's. The fit and finish was excellent as well as the function. Some advantages of the 1895:

1. easier/quicker levering. The strength and design of the '86 comes at a cost when it comes to levering in another round.
2. Side eject
3. You can easily mount a scope on a Marlin and it also looks good with a scope.

KirkD, I don't have both, but I've owned an 1895 and have an M71, and agree that the first factor (easier/quicker levering) is easily recognizable. You must really work the lever on a 1886/M71 (I've handled my friends and others 1886s) to cycle the action. The Marlin is much shorter, with less stages, and quicker. I also think the solid top is more forgiving when it comes to imperfect carrier issues than that of the 1886. I am more and more beginning to apprecieate the easier ability to mount a scope or other sight set-ups on the Marlin as I get older and my sight becomes less than perfect.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Idiot,

Sigh .... I do wish you'd do something about that forum name. You are not an idiot.

OK, I follow your train of thought about the 1886 vs 1895 completely. Each has it positives and each as it's negatives.

What it comes down to is what you want, and what you want to do with it. The modern version, Browning and Mirokuchester and to a lesser extent the later smokeless original Winchesters, can be loaded with hotter loads than the Marlin 1895. Why anyone would want to is a good question. There isn't a critter on the North American Continent that cant be and hasn't been cleanly taken with the standard old 45-70 loads.

Personally, and I am a Winchester fan, I prefer the Marlin 1895, because ... it's lighter and handier than the 1886. To me the 1886 is an over weight, awkward club. No offense meant to those who prefer them.
I feel the same thing in reverse about the Winchester 94 compared to the Marlin 336. Go figure.

Now the better, stronger, extra margin of safety argument has been used for years by the lovers of the Ruger BH to diss the Colts and Colt copies. It has no bearing in reality if the shooter only shoots standard or a bit over sane loads.
That argument is used by those who load ammo that is really unreasonable and believe that it is the only way to do it. This is the same argument used in the 1886 vs 1895 discussion.

The only 1895s I've ever seen KABOOM'd were victims of improper hand loads. The 1886 is not immune to that either.

Perhaps that is why nobody has been able to offer convincing evidence that the 1886 is anything but .... umm, twice as expensive, and twice as heavy than the 1895.

Joe

crs · Post by **crs** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:44 pm

Idiot, (really hate to start a message with that word, but,,,)

Do what I did and shoot both the Winchester and the Marlin .45-70 and pick the one that you prefer; short barrel, long barrel, round or octagon, etc.

I did that when shopping for a full octagon barrelled .45-70 or .45-90 a few years ago.
My requirements included high power loads with heavy bullets for dangerous game, so I picked a Miroku Winchester 1886 in .45-90 and have never regretted the decision. The rifle also shoots .45-70 ammo very well and for some lighter game, I use premium factory .45-70 ammo.
That being said, at 9.5 pounds, it is not as handy as a shorter , lighter rifle, but knowing from experience what it will do to game gives this hunter great confidence that it will take down anything that I run across anywhere.

WRT, the smoothness of the new 1886 action, I had an action and trigger job done just after my early range sessions and both are now very slick and effortless. When hunting, they are so smooth that the rifle seems to reload and fire itself when shooting game. My "new" 1886 is now as smooth as my 100+ year old M1892 and I did not have pass on and let my son and grandson shoot it several thousand times to create a well broken in action.

Have fun researching the options and then have even more fun shooting your choice.
Regards.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:17 pm

If you're near Tacoma, I can let you shoot a 1895 CB, a 1895GS with ports and a USRAC 1886EL.......I like the Marlins a little better. They just fit better and thereby don't kick as much and are more accurate for me..YMMV.....(the CB currently shoots about a foot high because some clown trimmed down the front sight a bit too much

) I keep the 1886EL for now because I'd like to send it in for a do-over with non-rebounding, etc, bbl cut to about 20" and P Pad put in, and scout scope installation.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:50 pm

I like the Marlin 22" for the obvious reasons - it fits me, is very accurate and can take a scope or not. It is certainly sufficiently strong for any reasonable 45-70 load up to say 1900/2000 fps with a 350/400. And, I just like it. the 1886s are too shiny and no scope and I don't at all like crescent butt plates on heavy recoiling guns. I like the light ones with the shotgun stocks but I doubt you will like shooting loads that take advantage of the extra strength difference in those. And while guys get them and ( may have missed something here ) I don't recall anyone actually using one for hunting. The 1886s are elegant but heavy in the rifle configuration and the Marlin is more of a working gun to me. My heaviest load is a 350 Hornady at 1900 at the muzzle. I have put five of those in 1 1/2" at 100 yds. I think that was the only five shot group I shot with that load. Figure out from Paco's article how far that is good for. Want more? Now if you like the 1886 more, more power to you - I am sure you will be able to use it to about 200 with good shooting and heavy loads - worked on the steel we tried.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:11 pm

My perspective ----- i am not upset if i jam the muzzle of my $500 Guide Gun into a creek bank and then have to clean it out with said creek water while out hunting (this has happened)

- My gun wears a variable scope that would look entirely out of sorts on the 1886, but i love it for the low light hunting i get myself into at times

I haven't had the need to shoot loads in the Guide Gun any heavier than Hornady's factory FTX loading --- i fell into a small stockpile of these at a good price, my rifle likes them, my scope is zeroed for them, so i have had no reason to switch for the game i hunt

------ So for me, no - the 1886 is not twice the gun the 1895 is for my use. For my use , i'd say the 1895 is better even -- But i'd sure like to have one anyway

I just don't think it will take the place of my Guide Gun. But i have been wanting to plan a special buff hunt for a couple of years now, and i would like to use a special, "period piece" rifle for that ---

From a quality standpoint - i'd take a Winoku or Browning hands down over a MArlin most times if that were the only consideration --- but the MArlin is -at its heart- a $500 rifle, so comparing it to a $1300 rifle is an apples to oranges comparison in that regard

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:14 pm

Idiot wrote:

What can the 1886 do that the 1895 can't?

Look darn sweet...IMO
Terry

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:17 pm

TMair wrote:
Idiot wrote:

What can the 1886 do that the 1895 can't?

Look darn sweet...IMO
Terry

Once again everyone has there "opinion" whether in agreement or not .

An "original" Marlin 1895 looks far better to me then an original 1886 .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:18 pm

TMair wrote:
Idiot wrote:

What can the 1886 do that the 1895 can't?

Look darn sweet...IMO
Terry

Once again everyone has there "opinion" whether in agreement or not .

An "original" Marlin 1895 looks far better to me then an original 1886 .

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:33 pm

The original design is the only way I would have an 86.We all know how good it really is.But Maybe I should get a japchester 86EL...1k or less it sure sounds good.My holy grail of Levers.cant afford an original. And if by chance it turns out to be like my last rebounder/tang saftey. I can take My Marlin 1895 and shoot it into swiss cheese when it goes "click".we could all enjoy the pictures.

.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:36 pm

OK now, here is the world's best 45-70. I don't want to shoot anything in a 45-70 (other that a Ruger #1) that this won't shoot. If I want more it would not be in any configuration of an 1886 - I have shot them. This will do things that the 1886 won't and the 1886 won't do anything other than try to be more macho (poorly) than an 1895. Practicality! I appreciate nostalgia but it really is not in this discussion. Great old gun but ....

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:40 pm

"The 1886 is "Twice the Gun" of a 1895"

Agreed, so tell me, Where do I find a good used 86 for around $400.00? I see Marlin 1895`s in that range.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:01 pm

Bought my Browning 86 new in 86 and still have it and have shot a few deer with it and carried it for more than one mile. I`ve always liked Winchesters but since i got this 02 1895 Cowboy i`m really liking it. I bought a Marlin GBL first and it`s now a nice gun but seems as heavy as the 86. The Cowboy weighs about 7 lbs and balances real nice. As far as which is stronger unless your going to shoot some awful heavy loads i don`t think it matters which one you choose.
Having both is nice but for carrying and hunting this Cowboy is hard to beat and hopefully it will take a deer the next few days.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:17 pm

Yes BUT - you can!!!

Let's have some reports. With pics.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:59 pm

(I started this post several hours ago, and find quite a few posts have been posted in the interim. I ain't read 'em all, so I repeat anything someone else sez... forgive me).

"+P" is not a very concise description. For purposes of my comment, "+P" was used to describe loads in excesss of those listed under the general heading in reloading manuals for "lever-action rifles"... And even then, I'd be a little leery (see note * below). However, as the following hopes to explain, much less so with the 1886 vs. the 1895 Marlin.

Weight.

A modern Marlin 1895 (a 336 sized action) with a 22" barrel weighs 7lb 6oz. The 1886 in an EL (extra light) configuration weighs in at 7lb 4oz, and the 24" "Short Rifle" tips the scales at 8lb 6oz. My e26" rifle weighs 9lb 6oz. The Winchester's weight diiferential is in the barrel taper. The EL has a much lighter barrel than does the 1895. Wood density is a variable I can't account for. But, my eyeballin' both actions tells me the 1886 has more metal in the actual forging. Yep, I know, real scientific... but, hey, you work with what ya got!

Dimensions.

The Marlin's locking surface is approximately 3/8"x9/16", or ½ the height of the bolt. The Winchester's locking surface is approximately ¼" x 1". But, look at the distance between the centerlines of the magazine and bore on the two guns. The greaater distance on the 1886 equates to more metal in this area. (The point of failure in most 1895 Marlins). There've been several discussions on this forum on that issue. I currently have no access to dimensional data or either rifle to give an exact measurements. Visually, that's how I recall seeing them. I've been wrong before, maybe someone with access would provide the dimensions. Shouldn't be difficult to measure if you have a dial caliper.

Pressure.

This is a bit more nebulas as I don't have access to a pressure barrel. But we can look at some munbers. But, since we've already established I'm in possession of really non-scientic mind, looking at other calibers in the same design seems to be my only reliable frame of reference.

Marlin 1895 (or 336) with maximum pressure listed for any powder/bullet combination & case diameter:
a - .375 Win - 50,000 CUP (which I think is absolutely STUPID in this action, my own max loads in this cartridge do not exceed 42,100 CUP) - .4198
b - .444 - 42,600 CUP - .4296
c - .308 MX - 47,000 PSI - ?
d - 338MX - 46,000 PSI - ?
e - .30-30 - 38,100 CUP - .421
f - .35 Remington - 35,000 CUP - .460

Winchester 1886 (or mdl 71)
a - .348 Winchester - 40,000 CUP, .553
b - .45-90 - 26,800 CUP - .506

Now, for comparison, the topic of discussion is the .45-70 Gov't, the base of the case measures .504" and max listed pressure is 27,700 CUP in my new 49th Ed. Lyman Reloading Handbook. * Interestingly, the Hodgdon reloading guide online lists a maximum pressure of 40,000 CUP for a couple of loads.

Note, the receiver for the mdl 71 and 1886 are virtually identical in all outside dimensions. Ergo, the didstance between the centerline of the bore and magazine tube are identical and loading manuals list a number of loads that exceed the average maximum loading pressures for "levergun" loading in a case that is the largest diameter of any cartridge chambered in these guns. From that, I would surmise that the Winchester 1886 is fully capable of handling 40,000 CUP loads, which in fact, is above those recommended maximums listed for the .45-70 in the single shots such as the Ruger #1 or 3. Whether that's desirable is one's own decision. BUT... although that 40,000 CUP loads are listed under the "lever-action" listing, and no distinction is given whether that's for an 1886 or the 1895... I would be remiss if I didn't say that in a cartridge of the diameter of the .45-70 I wouldn't come close to using those in an 1895. Nor would I desire to be on a range with someone that did.

Those are my honest feeling's on the subject. You're free to discount them as you wish.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:25 pm

One other aspect relates to the weight... and since I haven't actually handled the 1895CB I can't offer a comparison. My '86 Browning has the 26" otagon barrel, and at 9.5lbs is quite heavy, (actually the same as my 1943 Garand), which in a gun that'll be used hunting has both postivie and negative aspects. The weight is mostly out there in the barrel, it HELPS me stabilze for off-hand shooting, and in still-hunting, that's a HUGE PLUS for me. Same applies to target shooting of the type I typically do with my '86. Hunting, it's a negative to carry all that weight around all day. But, like recoil, during the hunt, I've never noticed it. Off a bench, that crescent buttstock pounds the stuffing out of my shoulder. Off-hand, it takes 20 plus rounds before I'm feelin' uncomfortable.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:38 pm

I have a 1st year BO marlin 1895, a cowboy version in both 26 inch and 18 inch. I also have a winchester 1886 takedown deluxe in 45/70. The reason I agree the winchester is twice the gun has nothing to do with any short comming of the marlin. The fit, finish and figure of the wood on the winchester are much much better. It also cycles smoother and hangs better for me in shooting offhand. I do favor the marlin for scope use.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:41 pm

Well I had the earliest version of the 1895 and I liked it very much.

I have a Browning 1886 SRC and I've never had a gun I liked better--if as much. THE LINES! Oh wow. A beautiful gun. The receiver is so outstanding, so smooth, so nice to hold for one hand carry. I've heard that many do not like the open sights that come on this gun. I love'em and they line-up fast when shouldering the gun. Would like to insert a fiber optic 'rod' in the front sight but leave it's shape and size the same.

Little off-topic but I'm not sure if I like the 1886 SRC any better than my Browning 71 carbine. Really great to have both. As I've said before, the smoothness of the 71's feeding and extracting is hard to beat. It's certainly more comfortable to shoot than the SRC with hot loads. Bullet weight sure makes a big difference.

I may 're-visit' a Marlin 1895 one of these days and also a 336 Texan.

Don

Cruise · Post by **Cruise** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:50 am

I have lusted after a Marlin 1895 LTD III. Last one on GB was around $900. 18" bbl if I recall correctly.

Mossyoak1957 · Post by **Mossyoak1957** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:44 am

TMair wrote:
Idiot wrote:

What can the 1886 do that the 1895 can't?

Look darn sweet...IMO
Terry

You got that right.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:40 am

I would buy an original 1895 Marlin in a heartbeat, especially in .40-82. IIRC, they all wear "Special Smokeless Steel" barrels, regardless of caliber. Although just as heavy as an '86, they are a graceful rifle; probably the best looking Marlin ever made.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:13 am

Idiot wrote:Now an 1895SBL sells for around $800. A modern Japanese 1886, with safety and rebounding hammer, sells for around $1,300. And an older Winchester 1886 sells from $2,000 up. So in my world, with all things considered, the Marlin is at least close to equalling the 1886, and is certainly not half the rifle - practically speaking.

You have, sadly, hit directly upon it there. The 1886 is the more lustworthy rifle in my view (MY view - simply that), but they're so doggone expensive, even the Oriental or Roman fakes

, that I don't know if I'll ever own one. It's just hard for me to come up with that kind of scratch and I'd wager many are in the same boat.

Perhaps. Perhaps! But more than likely the first .45-70 I'll add to my collection will be a Marlin simply because that's what a working man with a family can make happen more easily.

Best,
Oly

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:22 am

Marlin envy, pure and simple - that's what it is.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:14 am

Guys, it seems to me that this argument is like trying to explain why I ride a Harley and no longer have a BMW just like I shoot a Winchester 1886 in 45-90 when I have owned several Marlin 45-70s. They were great guns to which I added receiver sights and Redfield Sourdough fronts. They did everything I asked of them just like the BMW did during the 10 or 15 years I rode it, (R90/6). Some if it is nostalgia and the fact that a 100+ year old design is still a viable game getter. And the only reason it's a 45-90 is that's what I happened to find at a very good price.

It comes down to what do you like? Shoot what trips your trigger.

Is the 86 twice the gun of the 95 Marlin? Probably not but I would trade two 95 Marlins for one good 86 Winchester and never look back.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:22 am

M. M. Wright wrote:Guys, it seems to me that this argument is like trying to explain why I ride a Harley and no longer have a BMW just like I shoot a Winchester 1886 in 45-90 when I have owned several Marlin 45-70s. They were great guns to which I added receiver sights and Redfield Sourdough fronts. They did everything I asked of them just like the BMW did during the 10 or 15 years I rode it, (R90/6). Some if it is nostalgia and the fact that a 100+ year old design is still a viable game getter. And the only reason it's a 45-90 is that's what I happened to find at a very good price.

It comes down to what do you like? Shoot what trips your trigger.

Is the 86 twice the gun of the 95 Marlin? Probably not but I would trade two 95 Marlins for one good 86 Winchester and never look back.

I agree.

Old Shatterhand · Post by **Old Shatterhand** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:23 am

And what would your opinions be, if your compared the 1886 with the Winchester mod 95?

Pete

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:33 am

I'm supposing that an 1886 is twice the gun in several categories.

It locks up twice as strong, is double the weight, and costs twice as much.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:12 pm

FWiedner wrote:I'm supposing that an 1886 is twice the gun in several categories.

It locks up twice as strong, is double the weight, and costs twice as much.

Finally, a cogent answer!

(I've owned both and agree 95%... the other 5% goes to the fact that the 1886 is more easily had as a TD than the 95... which requires a Custom Mod...)

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:06 pm

More than half of shooting is seeing and I see 4x better with my fine Marlin 1895 SS. And that was pretty important on that 3 point at about 30 yds.

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:11 pm

Thanks gentlemen for your great responses. I think most of us would like to own both rifles - they are good ones.

Griff, I certainly want to pick you brain a bit on the 375 Winchester chambered in the Marlin. I just acquired one and also think that 50K CUP pressure is treading a little closer to the M336 edge than I want to go. So, I'd be interested in some of your max loads for this cartridge. Well, I guess that's for another topic.

Again, thanks guys.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:37 pm

I believe Paco has an article on that you will enjoy reading. But there has been a pretty consistent load with the 220 printed here at times.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:01 pm

Idiot wrote:375 Winchester chambered in the Marlin. I just acquired one and also think that 50K CUP pressure is treading a little closer to the M336 edge than I want to go. So, I'd be interested in some of your max loads for this cartridge.

I had a pair of the factory chambered Marlin 's in 375 WIN .

One was expressly for cast and the other for jacketed . The jacketed bullet gun got pushed a bit harder but it handled anything in the loading manual for a 375 WIN in the rifle section .
FWIW I also had a pair of Marlin 336ER's which was the model designation for the rifle in 356 WIN . And again it was one for casdt and the other for jacketed . And once again the jacketed bullet gun handled anything the loading manuals recommended .