OT--Holographic and Aimpoint type sights

[getitdone1]

What's some of your opinions regarding various Red Dot sights?

Holographic vs. tubular version?

Trijicon vs. Aimpoint and other brands?

Which would you prefer on a bolt-action 375 H&H magnum for use primarily under 100 yards? Would it require removal of front sight? Would it provide a large amount of eye relief?

Don

[jeepnik]

This is a C-More. Iron sights are getting pretty hard for my old eyes to see. I'm okay at short distances, 50 yards or less, but for more, I need help. The holographic sights are much smaller than tradtional red dots, and the newer ones not much larger than a good adjustable rear sight. If the C-More holds up to heavy 45-70 loads, it should handle the .375.



One word of warning, check you local regs if you hunt with one. Some locales still restirct sights with "batteries".

[kimwcook]

I have an Aimpoint CompM2 on my AR and I love it. I've had it for about 8 years and I've never had a problem with it. When I got it the holographic sights were pretty flimsy and I just couldn't see them holding up to the abuse of LE. Fast and consistent hits out to 100 yds is no big deal. I don't have any experience with substantially recoiling rifles and the Aimpoint, but I wouldn't think it would be a problem.

[Slick]

The best way I could sum it up is “you get what you pay for”. Yeah, I know – that applies to pretty much anything but what I’m trying to say is that ESPECIALLY applies to red dot / holo sights.

I own an Aimpoint Comp ML/3 and an EO Tech 557 on the upper end – a Vortex “Strikefire” (in the middle), and various BSA, NC Star brand sights on the low end. Few of us can afford the finest sight on every gun we own and I’m no exception.

If you plan on using the sight in an application where it won’t see much recoil (.223 or less) and if once the sight is “sighted-in” further adjustments won’t be made, then lower cost red dots are OK. Getting something from a reputable (for customer service) company with a “lifetime warrantee” is the way to go. At worst, if you blow it up – when they replace it you can sell the new one or demote it to a less abusive environment.

Lastly, the high-end red dots will have a smaller dot size – which is usually advertised in “MOA” and produce no forward-projected light signature to give away the position of the shooter..

[piller]

We have 2 Tasco red dot sights of the tube type. One is on a Marlin 336 and the other on a Remington 700 in .243. Both have worked for 10 years and are just fine. I would bet that the better brands would hold up to the recoil of a large caliber.

[Slick]

Which would you prefer on a bolt-action 375 H&H magnum for use primarily under 100 yards?

I finally remembered where I had seen a red dot tested with 1000 rounds of .375 H&H mag. It’s the Vortex “Strikefire” and I have one mounted on my Marlin 1895 SBL. I used a LaRue Tactical Q/D mount. I can’t really comment on life as I only have 150 rounds with the sight and they were standard .45-70 loads and not any fire-breathers as it was the first time out with the gun.

Here’s a link to the sight->

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vor ... -30mm-ring

They can be had for ~$150 or so. I really like mine. The day I first tested it was a very bright sunny CA day and it was bright enough for me to see the dot against a light background color (dead grass). I like that it came WITH a 2x magnifier and I didn't have to buy one separately like I did with the Aimpoint and EO Tech..

[AJMD429]

You might find some of these comparisons interesting - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=28788.

They're from my saga of building what I called my 'Night Scout' rifle; I started with a EOTech, and it was just too bulky for my needs, so I tried various others. Wound up with a Burris Fastfire-II, which I've seen others using on 1911's and .44 Mag handguns, and .444 Marlin and .45-70 leverguns, so I'm thinking they're pretty recoil-proof. No problems seeing the dot in bright sunlight OR even flashlight-at-night illumination; the auto-adjust behaved perfectly for both extremes. Since you can (it is easier to) shoot with both eyes open using these sights, there's no 'blind-spot' like with many aperture sights. The small sight and thin 'rim' around the dot help as well, vs. some of the bulkier 'red-dot' type tube-sights.

Made a pretty compact setup, even with an added LaserMax in front of it; if I'd not already mounted the XS-Scout Rail so as to accomodate the EO-Tech, I'd just have used a regular Weaver base on the receiver, but the forward placement is handy since I do use the laser sometimes and it puts the LaserMax's switch in 'thumb' position for the forend hand.



The quick-detach mount (for a '92 clone) is bigger than the Fastfire-II plus LaserMax...

[MrMurphy]

Take this as you will. I've been both a consumer, seller, and military user.


Aimpoints run. 99% of the time Aimpoints will survive even if the gun does not (i know of at least two that survived a helicopter crash and an IED explosion where the rifle did not). They run for years, without issues.

On a .375 I would use a H-1. Small and light you basically forget it's there. I've used and abused Aimpoint M2's (the original issue M68) for 3 years in all weather conditions ranging from European winter (-20) to Middle Eastern summer (130F) in snow, rain, mud, hail, ice, and sandstorms. Stuff that would kill another optic generally doesn't even annoy an Aimpoint, they build them to last.


Eotechs have a good picture window. I currently own one, because free=free. I'm accumulating cash to swap it for an Aimpoint because I've seen far too many of them fail (both professionally and as a guy who sold optics to the military/LE market). Eotechs tend to either work or not, and you can't tell which you've got. Some die randomly all the time, a few (limited few) tend to run like Aimpoints and nothing stops them. In large-volume numbers, they fail. A lot. As in, 80 got issued to a unit and within six months 75 were replaced or overhauled in one specific case I know of.

I sold an Aimpoint to a cop who had his Eo die 3 hot callouts in a row. And the older models are very recoil intolerant because of how the battery box is set up.


C-more, Strikefire, and all the rest, well, you get what you pay for. It's YOUR life.

You shouldn't have to remove the front sight, but if there's a way to mount some Picatinny rail on the rifle, or even a Weaver, an H-1 in the factory low mount should work well.

[AJMD429]

Eotechs tend to either work or not, and you can't tell which you've got. Some die randomly all the time, a few (limited few) tend to run like Aimpoints and nothing stops them. In large-volume numbers, they fail. A lot. As in, 80 got issued to a unit and within six months 75 were replaced or overhauled in one specific case I know of.

I sold an Aimpoint to a cop who had his Eo die 3 hot callouts in a row.

= That's BAD, and I'd be MAD...! Glad my EoTech is currently residing on a 10/22 used for rat patrol. Mine was originally an archery model used for compound bows...

C-more, Strikefire, and all the rest, well, you get what you pay for. It's YOUR life.

If I were in combat, a cop, or hunting dangerous game, I'd go with the Aimpoint, too, from what I've read, but my use may be like many others here now - mostly for small game or plinking or farmyard pests, and in mild-recoiling calibers, and seldom even in very 'challenging' weather. For those less life-and-death uses, where maximum recreation is my goal, it's more practical for me to have three 'cheap' sights on three guns, vs. one really good one on one gun.

Of course since he's using a .375 H&H, that's more serious recoil, and getitdone1 may not be using his for Indiana whitetail...

[3leggedturtle]

Take this as you will. I've been both a consumer, seller, and military user.


Aimpoints run. 99% of the time Aimpoints will survive even if the gun does not (i know of at least two that survived a helicopter crash and an IED explosion where the rifle did not). They run for years, without issues.

On a .375 I would use a H-1. Small and light you basically forget it's there. I've used and abused Aimpoint M2's (the original issue M68) for 3 years in all weather conditions ranging from European winter (-20) to Middle Eastern summer (130F) in snow, rain, mud, hail, ice, and sandstorms. Stuff that would kill another optic generally doesn't even annoy an Aimpoint, they build them to last.


Eotechs have a good picture window. I currently own one, because free=free. I'm accumulating cash to swap it for an Aimpoint because I've seen far too many of them fail (both professionally and as a guy who sold optics to the military/LE market). Eotechs tend to either work or not, and you can't tell which you've got. Some die randomly all the time, a few (limited few) tend to run like Aimpoints and nothing stops them. In large-volume numbers, they fail. A lot. As in, 80 got issued to a unit and within six months 75 were replaced or overhauled in one specific case I know of.

I sold an Aimpoint to a cop who had his Eo die 3 hot callouts in a row. And the older models are very recoil intolerant because of how the battery box is set up.


C-more, Strikefire, and all the rest, well, you get what you pay for. It's YOUR life.

You shouldn't have to remove the front sight, but if there's a way to mount some Picatinny rail on the rifle, or even a Weaver, an H-1 in the factory low mount should work well.

This is really nice to know. I just spent the last 10 months thinking about which one to buy. I settled on an Aimpoint 9000L, with 2MOA dot. Even came with rings. Bought it cuz Cabela's had it and was $30 cheaper than Midway, and to top oit off, they have parking spots for Semi's. 3leg

[MrMurphy]

The 9000L isn't a model i've personally used, but it's effectively a 'stretched' Comp C3, the 'civilian' (not diveable) model of the M3. You shouldn't have any issues with it. If for some really odd reason you do, PM me, i have the direct contact number for Aimpoint's warranty head guy.


C-more's have great visibility and they were made for competition. If it's not stressful use they do fine. The Vortex and Primary Arms clones, for the money, do well for .22's and range use, just remember that's all they are intended for and they tell you that up front. I'm strapped for cash a lot too, but I also have had to live or die by my equipment for duty use, and I buy what works. For varmints, plinking, etc......nothing wrong with a cheaper optic as long as you understand it's limitations, but for serious purposes, there's only two brands i'll buy. Aimpoint (dot scopes) and Trijicon (magnified combat scopes) unless it's for distance work, then Leupold, Nightforce, etc come into play.

For a .375 the H-1 will certainly survive the recoil, they've put them on machine guns and shotguns.

[getitdone1]

MrMurphy,

I watched an Aimpoint commercial last night and one thing that really impressed me was he said your eye does not have to be lined-up squarely behind the red dot to make an exact hit on the target. But, this model was not the one your recommending to me. Does the H-1 have this feature too?

What are the H-1 limitations compared to some of the other Aimpoint models? I don't want magnification. I also prefer a 2 min dot rather than a 4 or larger. For 100 yds and closer am I wrong with this 2 min dot size? Will the dot of the H-1 be as bright as the dots in the tubular models? That is, will it work well in bright light conditions?

Thanks,

Don

[kimwcook]

Don, I can't answer your H1 questions, but I can address the MOA size of the dot. I have the CompM2 w/4 MOA dot and it does just fine until I get to about the 100 yd. line. Then it get's a little bit for small targets. Man sized, no problem, but anything smaller and the dot obscures the target. 2 MOA would be a better choice, for me at least, but it wasn't available at the time I purchased mine and I'm not buying another one just for the smaller dot.

[MrMurphy]

I've got more personal time on the 4 size, but the 2 and 4 most people can't tell the difference between (just looking at them) when you line the two up. I prefer the 2 moa.

The H-1/T-1 series is actually about a 3.2 MOA, and until you're shooting teeny targets at a few hundred+ you can't tell the difference.

Brightness level and everything else on the Micro series is identical to the larger models, it has an 80,000 hour run time (Five years constant on). Friend forgot his T-1 was left on and deployed to Afghanistan. Fifteen months later comes back, still turned on in the gunsafe. Most guys generally replace them every year or so and never turn them off, but they can run five years on the 'medium' (7 or setting without any issues. The dot should be just bright enough to see. Some idiots crank it up to max all the time (drains battery fast) and it's also harder to hit that way.


Any Aimpoint doesn't need perfect eye alignment to make a hit. On the older M2 series, inside 25m you did need to be aligned correctly, but past that, no, if you can see the target and see the dot anywhere in the tube, stick dot on target and you'll hit.

I've tested it out to 50/100m and it does work. Whenever possible, get a good cheekweld of course, but it's not absolutely necessary. I've shot in some pretty funky positions with a gas mask on so it does in fact, work.

The Micro series (T-1/H-1/R-1) are basically the powered optic everyone else in the world is trying to beat. With reason. They've used them on everything from pistols (i've shot one on a Ruger Mk III with suppressor) to machine guns and grenade launchers. They just work.

The H-1 is what i'm swapping my free Eothingie with as soon as the funds are available, because i have and do trust Aimpoints with my life.

[86er]

I put a Bushnell tube type red dot/green dot optic 1X32 on my AR, for now. It co-witnesses with my open sights. The dot is fine enough and bright enough to shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yard and to center a 2" circle. This is the one that is called Trophy 730132P. For Bushnell, it is a higher-end optic at $247.95 retail. I like it and it serves it's purpose, especially on the AR rifle.

[oic0]

You ever try a red dot? my eyes don't like them. I have lots of floaters and bad sight in general. In daylight when I look through a red dot it takes me precious seconds just to find the dot because my brain is so used to trying to ignore the spots in my vision lol. I do much better with a T or dot in circle shaped holo sight.

[AJMD429]

I do much better with a T or dot in circle shaped holo sight.

Several of the sights either have a switchable setting for that, or are available in separate models with other 'dot' shapes. My EoTech is two concentric circles and they 'center' in one another if you're in perfect alignment, since it was actually intended for use on a compound bow.

[getitdone1]

I got some good advice and thanks. Thought one more round might reap a little more detail and other good choices.

For my Browning BLR I'm thinking Burris Fastfire-II, as suggested, 2 min dot (does eye have to be lined-up perfect with this one?)

For my Browning 375 H&H I'm thinking Aimpoint H-1, as suggested and was told this one DOES NOT require eye alignment on dot and is about as durable as they come.

I really like the fact that the Burris works well in bright light and even self-adjust for lighting conditions and also it's small, light and does not obstruct view. Since it's a holograph I wonder how long it's batteries last? Hear they go through batteries pretty fast.

Anyone have more suggestions or more detail related to above?

Don

[AJMD429]

Since it's a holograph I wonder how long it's batteries last? Hear they go through batteries pretty fast.

Dunno, but my older-technology EoTech lasts for years on N-cells, and the Burris Fastfire-II I've used on dozens and dozens of outings, and still not replaced the battery (one of the flat nickel-sized ones if I recall).

[MrMurphy]

The N-Cell Eotechs had a bad enough rep for being battery hogs they discontinued them. Most ate batteries in one or two uses (five-to-ten hours run time) that I experienced myself.


The Fastfire II's should be good for about a hundred run-time hours. Keep it off unless you really need it on and you should be okay, they see a lot of use in competition shooting.

[FWiedner]

How are the Aimpoints at dawn/dusk and in the dark?

The single best thing I like about Eotech (mine seem to be reliable) is that the sight window doesn't seem to have any weird lens coatings that diminish the ability to pass light when it starts getting dark.

I stopped using a Bushnell tube I have after the first time I took it out in the evening, because when it started getting dark it was just useless.

[AJMD429]

The N-Cell Eotechs had a bad enough rep for being battery hogs they discontinued them. Most ate batteries in one or two uses (five-to-ten hours run time) that I experienced myself.

That's wild - I've only put new batteries in mine twice in 15 years, but OTOH I don't use it all that often, either, and when I do, I only turn it on when actually shooting.

[getitdone1]

MrMurphy,

It's very apparent you really know a lot about these types of sights. I, and I'm sure many here, appreciate your comments. Don't want you to think my giving this thread a second try is showing disrespect for your previous, generous input.

Like a lot of guys I'm not crazy about paying the big price for an Aimpoint. I might, but if I can get by with paying less for something that's still very good I'll probably do that. Another pricey sight is the Trijicon and I do admire their products. Have one of their products on my Glock 19 and it's outstanding. They glow in the dark--both front and back and no batteries needed.

The Burris Fastfire-II looks pretty darned good. Your thoughts? www.opticsplanet.com has them for 199.00 It's very light in weight.

Seen another holographic sight at that site: Mueller Optics Quickshot for 94.95. It has auto brightness or manual and also a choice of 4 dot sizes, one being 1 MOA. The price of this one plus some, not all, reviews has me wondering if this one can take recoil. I have a Mueller 2-7X variable power scope with adjustable dot brightness and like it very much. I question it handling lots of recoil and have it on my Browning 22 mag rimfire A-Bolt. Lovely, light little gun.

All of these sights have unlimited eye relief so I'm wondering about using what I think Browning calls their "Scout Mount" out on the barrel of my BLR. By doing so I could still grasp the receiver for a good one-hand carry--which I do a lot. Is mounting these types of sights that far forward a good idea or not?

Thanks,
Don

[MrMurphy]

The Fastfire II, and the even-better Trijicon RMR are pretty much the best of the 'mini' dots.

There's no real range limit on the dot, though with the smaller window, the further away it is sometimes you can 'lose' the dot if your eye isn't in a good cheekweld position.

I've run an Aimpoint (big tube) halfway up the fore-end of an M16, but most people on an AR go for 'front end of the receiver' as about optimal for most red dots.

The FFII has a decent battery life and the little hood-thing helps keep it off until you need it, just remember new battery=rezero and you're fine.

I spent most of 3 years using Aimpoints in the dark. Either full dark sneaking around, or early dawn/late dusk. If you adjust the brightness setting correctly, non-issue. Go for the lowest-power dot you can see and generally (in my case) turn it up 1 more. Late at night on a standard Aimpoint that'd be about click 7 or 8 (the first four are night vision and invisible to the eye, or just not there). If it's very very bright (staring into a sunrise, heavy fog, etc) crank it up a bit more, but you generally don't get beyond 7-9 setting. Those 'weird finishes' are there to enhance light gathering and decrease reflections.

As to price, well, you get what you pay for. They'll survive massive abuse and run forever. In some cases, you need that. Combat, defense, dangerous game. Cost is no different than a Leupold VX III.

I'm on a budget so i know what it's like, but some things, well, they're worth it.

Never heard of the Mueller, odds are it's a Chinese made optic. Any optic with multiple dot-sizes has never held up in my experience. Too many things moving. An Aimpoint has a single emitter inside, an Eotech (the ones that do run correctly) have the holographic system, which is good (concept is fine, battery life is what kills them).

The 511-series (N cell) Eotechs are compact, but the batteries aren't cheap and those running them hard had them die a lot. The AA models (512/552) were the best of the bunch, the new sideways-battery-box XPS's were an improvement but still have issues. If you 'have' to go with an Eo, get an XPS. They still suck down power, but they're fairly reliable as Eo's go.

Out of any of the budget-build dot scopes, the Primary Arms ones do work well, within their limits. They'll tell you up front they're Chinese made, and not intended for hard use (combat, etc). You're basically paying for quality control as they test all the optics before they ship them.

I know half a dozen guys who run them on .22 ARs for training purposes, and I've seen one hammer out 120 rounds of 7.62X39mm rapid-fire on an AK, so they'll perform. Just be aware if you take a hard fall an Aimpoint would simply smile at, you're probably going to need a new optic in the PA's case. It's 1/4 the price, you pay for that in durability.

To test out the idea, shoot on a .22 or airgun and generally experiment with, the Primary Arms are just fine. I wouldn't put one on a heavy recoiling weapon, though i know a guy who's shot 12ga slugs using one without serious (so far) issues.

Disclaimer: I sold optics for a living after using them professionally. I obviously have my opinions, because i've seen what worked in the field and what didn't, and what came back for repair and didn't. I would sell someone an Eotech, but I personally never recommended them due to their known problems. A sample of 1 is one thing a sample of thousands is another.

[getitdone1]

MrMurphy,

Here are my concerns:

Would prefer a 2 MOA dot rather than 4 or larger. Many are 4 and some even 12-13. Who makes them with a 2 MOA size dot?

Some reviewers were saying the Burris Fastfire-II is too small for rapid target acquisition. Which are best for fast target acquisition?

Which makes for more rapid target acquisition? Mounted on receiver or on rail on barrel?

If you wear reading glasses will all of these dots appear blurry when not wearing your glasses?

Appears many of these sights are high when mounted and I prefer low mount.

You've told me the Aimpoint H-1 does not require perfect eye/dot alignment. What about the Fastfire and others?

Want to keep the overall weight down as much as possible with a light weight sight.

Thanks,

Don

[MrMurphy]

The Aimpoint ML3 and M4/M4S all have a 2 MOA dot or the option of one.

The C3 I believe has the 2 MOA dot.

The T/H/R-1 series has about a 3.2 MOA dot, and most can't tell the difference. I use an H-1 myself and at any realistic distance for a dot (inside about 200m) with a man size target, i can't tell the difference in accuracy. I can effectively (hits, not tiny groups) hit a 300m man target with a 4 MOA, it's just a bit harder.


Most of the micro-dots like the Fastfires actually have a bit larger of a dot, around 7 MOA on some models, because they're intended for pistols, you'd have to check each individual model. I know for general medium range work, the Fastfires see a lot of use as backup sights on rifles that have high-mag scopes on them, they're good for out to about 100m in a setup like that.

It's been a while since I shot anything with a Fastfire so I can't say about the perfect/imperfect sight alignment, but with the majority of dot scopes, if you can see the dot in the window and it's on target, you're okay. Without more triggertime on one i won't promise one way or the other, it's been about 2 years since i shot anything with a Fastfire.

With dots. Whether the dot is fuzzy or crisp... the key point is, get it on target. I have 20/20 vision courtesy of Lasik and at times the edges of the dot will 'fuzz'. Don't stare at the dot. Stare at the target, lay the dot on it. Backwards of how you shoot irons. Focus on the target and present the weapon, when you see the dot on target, don't pause, fire when it's where it needs to be (for moving targets or if you yourself are moving). For prone/stationary work you can take more time, but you don't need to do the Steely-eyed-killer stare at the dot (it 'will' fuzz out then for most people). I try and zero bullet impact towards the top of the dot, at longer ranges, i use that as the 'tip of the front sight' it gives a bit more precision at those ranges.

The reason for the high mounts is primarily on AR-pattern rifles, you tend to need it higher up, also, you should be shooting both eyes open and head up (bring the rifle to your head not the other way around) when possible.

For something like a bolt gun, shotgun, etc it's possible to mount the dot right on the bore and use it effectively, there's nothing wrong with that and many mounts are specific to certain types of weapons.


As to rapid target acquisition. The Fastfire and RMR-size are made for pistols, so they can indeed be a bit small. If you mount the gun right, you won't have an issue. Sloppy positioning or mounting will cause issues regardless of the optic, none of them are huge (even Eotechs), you still need to see over the receiver.

Barrel-vs-receiver mounts would be specific to the weapon. I'd have to know which sight and which weapon you were discussing. When they initially released, I did have concerns on the Aimpoint Micro series because of the smaller-diameter tube. After many thousands of rounds, day, night, suppressed, night vision, with and without magnifiers, I was satisfied they were just as 'fast' as the larger M2/M3/M4 series tubes. If you're truly worried about it, the Aimpoint C3 makes a good compromise. It's rugged as hell, though don't go diving with it (only waterproof, not dive rated to more than 1 atmosphere) and usually Midway has them fairly inexpensively, i've seen sales for $300 before. A low mount on a receiver would work for a shotgun, levergun or bolt gun just fine. It's the civilian/competition model of the M3 series, with around 30-50,000 hours run time per battery.

Think of it as a stock Jeep compared to a tricked out model. Still works fine, just not as many extras.

[getitdone1]

MrMurphy,

You are being very helpful. Thanks!

I'd be mounting this sight on my Browning BLR, 308 Win. Later, maybe, my Browning A-Bolt 375 H&H.

The Browning BLR allows barrel mounting or receiver mounting and I'd prefer barrel ("scout") mounting BUT which would give me the fastest target acquisition?

I've got it narrowed down to the Burris Fastfire II and the Aimpoint C3. Burris at 190.00 and Aimpoint at 370.00. You're right the C3 can be had with a 2 MOA dot and I much prefer this over the 4 MOA. 4 MOA only with Burris.

Because of the 2 MOA dot and the 50,000 hr battery life I'm about ready to go for the Aimpoint C3. Mounted as low as possible. Another BIG THING is the durability of the Aimpoint.

What kind of weight am I adding to gun with C3 and base/mount?

You mentioned using the top of dot for a little more precision at long distance. I see where Trijicon has a triangular "dot" with some of their models and it occured to me the top of that triangle would really be nice for the longer shots. But, my main use for this kind of sight is 100 yds or a lot closer so long distance capabilities aren't very important.

Don

[MrMurphy]

I don't have my handy weights chart anymore since i'm not in the biz, but any of the M2/ML2, M3/ML3/C3 scopes are not particularly heavy. I'd say somewhere in the six to eight ounce range maybe a little more. No more or less than say an old Weaver K4, and a hell of a lot tougher.

I would generally recommend an M1913 Picatinny base with a LaRue LT152 for your use, but with the high odds of you using Weaver bases... i can't really recommend a mount (coming from a military background, i only dealt with Picatinny).

Whatever you do. Avoid ARMS (they fail regularly and are notorious for it). I can ask around some people i still know in the biz about reliable Weaver bases and rings for an Aimpoint, but it isn't something I know offhand.


If you're running a 2-MOA dot, a scout-mount on a BLR would certainly work if the mount is fairly low as the rear sight on one isn't that much further off the receiver anyways. It would only start to be an issue if it was halfway down the barrel.

With the 50,000 hour life, basically, turn it off if it's in the safe. Turn it on any other time and leave it on.

My original issued M2 was NIB when issued with a NIB rifle (our unit was expanding) and it was turned on 8-16 hours a day, six days a week, for three years. I left it on, but armorers, being 19 yr olds who only know what they're told, would sometimes turn them off.

Overall though, from first turn-on in December 2005 to final turn-in around October 2008 when i was pulled from the arming roster due to injuries, i was running the same battery. And the C3 is one generation improved on battery life.

[MrMurphy]

Update:

H-1 ran fine last night on a coyote hunt.

No issues in the dark on an AR, just a lack of targets as they were all an extra pasture over in a woodline checking out some amorous cattle. We could hear them, but no clear shots, not even movement, except a copperhead who met Mr. 12 gauge.