Mossberg 464 observations

[J Miller]

I was poking around and found the URL to the Mossberg 464 owners manual:
http://www.mossbergs.com/manuals/464_centerfire.pdf

Mossberg 464.jpg

On page 15 is the exploded drawing. As I studied that I saw that: >Mossberg copied the Winchester 9422 receiver design where the stock bolts on.
>The bolt looks like a partial copy of a Marlin center fire bolt.
>And the rest of the action is pure Winchester 94.

This is a good example of a hermaphrodite if I ever saw one. No original thoughts in this design except perhaps the bridge over the rear of the receiver.

My curiosity is does anyone here have one that they have shot extensively, and if so what is the round count and verdict?

I'd actually like to test fire one myself.


(See I can do an on topic post once in a while.)

Joe

[Ben_Rumson]

Joe.. Not sure but I think this pre dates the 9422s...It's the Mossberg 472 introduced in 1972...it had the no tangs stronger throughbolt buttstock ...But the rifle itself as one can see looks like a Morphed Marlin...

[J Miller]

Yep, same concept. But the stock mounting area on the 464 is very much like the 9422.

After looking at that 472 I'm not sure why Marlin didn't sue the stuffings out of Mossberg.

Joe

[Pisgah]

>After looking at that 472 I'm not sure why Marlin didn't sue the stuffings out of Mossberg.


Probably because very few bits and pieces of the Marlin design were patented, and those that may have been no longer are. Patents don't last forever, you know. In fact, you'd be hard put to find any patented feature in almost any firearm today. Just about every single design -- or at least the various parts of every design -- have been done before, and are not patentable. Most are just new combinations of old ideas.

One of the best currrent examples is the Ruger LCP, which is almost a precise copy of the KelTec P3AT. How do they get away with it? Nothing in the design is new or covered under current patent.

[J Miller]

>After looking at that 472 I'm not sure why Marlin didn't sue the stuffings out of Mossberg.


Probably because very few bits and pieces of the Marlin design were patented, and those that may have been no longer are. Patents don't last forever, you know. In fact, you'd be hard put to find any patented feature in almost any firearm today. Just about every single design -- or at least the various parts of every design -- have been done before, and are not patentable. Most are just new combinations of old ideas.

One of the best currrent examples is the Ruger LCP, which is almost a precise copy of the KelTec P3AT. How do they get away with it? Nothing in the design is new or covered under current patent.

Basically what you're saying is there are very few designers with original ideas today. Ah sadly the golden days of gun design are dead.

John M. Browning is dead. Long live John M. Browning.

Joe

[Bigahh]

John M. Browning is dead. Long live John M. Browning.

Amen !

[Ben_Rumson]

The M88s and Finnwolfs were new designs...But they wern't old fasioned enough LOL...
Read: Not designed by Browning...

[J Miller]

Ben,

The problem is John Wayne didn't use them. If he had we'd be hip deep in the things

I'm not sure really but I think people in general want their lever guns to look like B. Tyler Henry, Winchester, John M. Browning, John Marlin and Savage to a lesser degree designed them. Then they want their bolt guns to look like bolt guns.
As good as the Savages, Win 88s, Finnwolfs, BLRs are, they are not traditional so they just haven't gone over as well.

So, we need new traditional ideas. Oh gawd, did I ever make an oxymoron or what.

Joe

[wecsoger]

With all due respect to Mr. Browning, before he started filing down metal there was...nothing. So he had a big field to design in.

Based on human factors such as you have to hold it, carry it and be able to sell it at a profit, there's really so many ways to move a metallic cylinder from point 'A' to point 'B', whack it on its butt and then remove it from play.

The concept of the lever is sheer genius. Modification on the concept from there, i.e. the Winnie '92, '94, '95 are all basic engineering upon the same theme.

Last really big change in the firearms industry was (good or bad) the contribution by Herr Gaston Glock.

I wouldn't mind having one of the Mossies, but right now I'm embarrassed to say how many Marlins and a couple of Winnies I've bought cheap at pawn that I'm holding for refinishing. Maybe after I get through them.

[Pete44ru]

It seems the younger buying public is more willing to buy an older design made of new/different materials, than try a new design of firearm - so the "designers" are going where the money is, and putting lipstick on a pig as it were, via making plastic-framed revolvers, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

.

[J Miller]

It seems the younger buying public is more willing to buy an older design made of new/different materials, than try a new design of firearm - so the "designers" are going where the money is, and putting lipstick on a pig as it were, via making plastic-framed revolvers, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

.

Pete,
I got to agree with you there.

Joe