OT: Double Shotgun gunsmith question

[C. Cash]

It seems that there is black always coming off of my shotgun barrels at the joint with the rib. Whenever I oil the barrels, it feels gritty when I rub the patch down the barrel at this joint and it comes away black. Any ideas? Are my shotgun barrels slowly coming unglued on me? If so, any way to stop it? This is a Stevens 311C from the 60's, I believe. Thanks for any input.

[Tumbleweeds II]

Don't worry about it. That is just dust that has stuck to the oil you put on last time. The oil makes the dust black, just like Oil-Dri turns black when it's thrown on an oil spill in a garage.

You might try cleaning the barrels and waxing them with auto wax. That doesn't attract the dust, and it looks pretty good too. Some duck hunters wax their guns when they go out, leaving it hazy, so the barrels don't glint and spook the game. When they get home, they just buff out the wax and the gun looks great.

I don't think I've ever seen a Stevens 311 come apart from anything short of a barrel blockage. It's one of the tougher pieces of ordnance a man can buy.

[C. Cash]

Thanks Tumbleweeds. It's possible it could be that, but it just seems to keep coming. I give up trying to get it off as it always comes off as a black streak. I've tried to degrease it with alcohol to no avail, tried different oils thinking it is some kind of reaction, but still get the black streak and rough feel.

I love the Stevens Doubles....bring back great memories growing up and like you said, built pretty tough. My Dad had an early one from the 20's or 30's and I bought one when I was 14. This is another one I picked up about 5 years ago from a member here.

[Mescalero]

Chris,
I have two of them, never have been able to keep them clean.

[C. Cash]

Chris,
I have two of them, never have been able to keep them clean.

Hey Mescalero....good to see your post. It almost seems like some kind of an oxidation problem to me, of whatever metal is used to join the barrels to the rib. Your experience kind of pushes me that way too. Maybe it's nothing big but it's bothersome to always have it coming off of there. Over the long run, maybe not a good thing. Hope you are well amigo.

[Mescalero]

I have done fine cotten cloth & toothpicks to get WAY down in there there.
Still happens!

[cshold]

Something sure doesn’t sound right to me.
Do you know if the barrels were ever refinished?
If it were me I would be contacting Savage Arms / Stevens.
http://www.savagearms.com/

One other thing you could try is a soft toothbrush to get down in there real good,
then followed by blowing out real good with an air compressor nozzle.

[firefuzz]

I have done fine cotten cloth & toothpicks to get WAY down in there there.
Still happens!

Pipe cleaners work good too.

Rob

[86er]

The braze will heat at a different rate than the barrels when you fire it. This make a little condensation stick to the brazing. That in turn attracts the gunk at those spots. That's the only thing I can think of. The rib is not coming unglued, it would snap at that spot and would show signs of being loose. Can you check to see if it is an aluminum rib (I doubt it). Sometimes the black oxide used on the aluminum will come off a bit but it wouldn't be gritty. I don't think its aluminum anyway. Is there any orange at all like a little rust under the rib is coming loose? Overall, this is not something that worries me much. There is a ribbon along the whole rib so even if one or two little spots were compromised the whole rib isn't going to fly off.

[Nath]

I once had a Pedersoli 10g M/L that would sweat brown oxidized steel from the rib. I opend the soldered muzzle ends between the tubes and attemped to flush it all out.

I got most out and then re sealed with soft lead.

I wonder if part of the rib braze or solder is sweating on your gun and some bluing solution is sweating out????

Pardon the pun but I would not sweat about it.

best wishes.

Nath.

[C. Cash]

Thank you for the input gents. Joe, I'll look carefully at wheter it is aluminum or not. I doubt it as the steel looks the same on the face of the chambers/rib. No orange stuff, always black. I'll get some pics up here in the next few days. Merry Christmas to all of you and thank you again.

[C. Cash]

Thank you for the input gents. Joe, I'll look carefully at wheter it is aluminum or not. I doubt it as the steel looks the same on the face of the chambers/rib. No orange stuff, always black. I'll get some pics up here in the next few days. Merry Christmas to all of you and thank you again.

PS: Nath are you trying to rib me about this situation? So brazen, you Englishmen!

[stanforth]

Here is another posibility.
Traditionaly made double guns had their barrels/ribs soft soldered together.
Solder is lead.... Lead oxidises.... Lead oxide is black (try polising a lead bullet).

[C. Cash]

Here is another posibility.
Traditionaly made double guns had their barrels/ribs soft soldered together.
Solder is lead.... Lead oxidises.... Lead oxide is black (try polising a lead bullet).

Thank you Stanforth.....the presence of lead in the solder could well be what is causing the black. If so, it must be oxidizing at a high rate and I keep taking off a little with each wipe. It never seems to stop, no matter how much I wipe out of there. Still has me puzzled but your idea is a good one. I might just clean it the best I can and then paste wax over it.

[Nath]

I'm sure Stanforth knows a hell of alot more than me but I allways thought lead oxide went white!

N.

[C. Cash]

Good point Nath, but I know after loading my 10/22 clips a few times with new, lubed lead bullets, my fingers are black. Whether the black is the lead itself or some other element on the bullet, I really don't know. One's fingers sure turn black, nonetheless. So, if there is lead in that joint, I'm betting that it does have something to do with it, but your right in that old lead bullets turn white when they are left to oxidize for a long period of time. This is about as far as my pea brain can take me. Maybe before the lead oxidation turns white after a long period of time, it comes off black in it's early stages? Maybe this is why I get the black as I give the oil every couple of weeks?

[86er]

The rib should be silver soldered, no lead. What is happening to your gun is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

[C. Cash]

The rib should be silver soldered, no lead. What is happening to your gun is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

Thank you Joe. Silver also turns black when it oxydizes correct? Maybe it that metal oxidizing. I never seem to have this problem with my 1983ish Stevens 311. This one is not serial numbered so must be pre 1968.

[Alan Wood]

I am begining to wonder what "OIL" you are using. Might be a bad interaction of "OIL" and solder.
Alan Wood

[C. Cash]

I use either Hoppes no. 9 or Ballistol, Alan. I admit that I use alot of Ballistol because it is non-toxic.

[Alan Wood]

I use either Hoppes no. 9 or Ballistol, Alan. I admit that I use alot of Ballistol because it is non-toxic.

Sorry I tried a google search on this subject but the results were very inconclusive. I found nothing to say one way or the other that one or the other o these solvent's could be the source of you trouble. Might be or might not be google didn't help at all.
Alan Wood

[Nath]

Good point Nath, but I know after loading my 10/22 clips a few times with new, lubed lead bullets, my fingers are black. Whether the black is the lead itself or some other element on the bullet, I really don't know. One's fingers sure turn black, nonetheless. So, if there is lead in that joint, I'm betting that it does have something to do with it, but your right in that old lead bullets turn white when they are left to oxidize for a long period of time. This is about as far as my pea brain can take me. Maybe before the lead oxidation turns white after a long period of time, it comes off black in it's early stages? Maybe this is why I get the black as I give the oil every couple of weeks?

Thats gotta be the lead Mr Cash. They use to use lead in pencils!

Got some balls upstairs that have turned white!

Hoppes no9 will disolve copper, if them tubes are brazed it may give a green residue if the hoppes is used externally.

Best wishes.

Nath.

[C. Cash]

Good point Nath, but I know after loading my 10/22 clips a few times with new, lubed lead bullets, my fingers are black. Whether the black is the lead itself or some other element on the bullet, I really don't know. One's fingers sure turn black, nonetheless. So, if there is lead in that joint, I'm betting that it does have something to do with it, but your right in that old lead bullets turn white when they are left to oxidize for a long period of time. This is about as far as my pea brain can take me. Maybe before the lead oxidation turns white after a long period of time, it comes off black in it's early stages? Maybe this is why I get the black as I give the oil every couple of weeks?

Thats gotta be the lead Mr Cash. They use to use lead in pencils!

Got some balls upstairs that have turned white!

Hoppes no9 will disolve copper, if them tubes are brazed it may give a green residue if the hoppes is used externally.

Best wishes.

Nath.

Ha...those pencils probably explain my behavior somewhat. That or the windowsills! Be interesting to know what kind of metal is in there: silver, lead, copper, etc? I hate it that there is often so little known or compiled about how these "everyday" guns for the common man were made: ie the steels used and manufacturing methods. No doubt the materials and processes went through a number of changes over the decades.

[stanforth]

I'm sure Stanforth knows a hell of alot more than me but I allways thought lead oxide went white!

N.

As I said...Try polishing a lead bullet

[Nath]

I'm sure Stanforth knows a hell of alot more than me but I allways thought lead oxide went white!

N.

As I said...Try polishing a lead bullet

Got me there Sir, I don't understand what polishing will demonstrate.

The lead flashing on the church roof is a pale grey but certainly not black.

At school I was taught Queen Elizabeth 1st use to powder her face with lead oxide, the thing is in all the films I have watched about her she does not come across as being black!

Nath.

[Nath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_oxide

HTH

N.