"Should I Get A CCW" Advice

[kmittleman]

Hi All,


I wanted to see what you all thought about a CCW for my situation. I own a business where we're open until 9pm or so and we have cash on hand. Over the past several years, my car was broken into once, there was an attempted break in, and we recently have a situation where we are pressing charges on someone for passing bad checks. The latter has numerous warrants out for his arrest and when caught, I will be called into court to testify. The question is, safety. We're a music school and have lots of kids here in and out. I figured if I kept a small revolver on me, it could be ok but I don't know. Also, what's the safest carry option (ankle, pocket,etc).

Thanks in advance!

-Kevin

[Booger Bill]

If you know guns why not? There must be some place in your business that at worst you can hide a small handgun case (safe box) where you can bolt it down and carry the key on you. When you close carry the gun home.

[alnitak]

I think everyone who is qualified to get a CCW should. There are stories every day in the paper -- home invasions, robberies, attacks on the street, etc. -- that point out the need and the fact that "you never know...." Besides, the more of us that have them, the bigger the political impact we can have and the reduced chance of them taking it away (numbers tell the politicians a story). Having said that, and having lived in the Commie state of MD for many years, it will be difficult to obtain one, and then you have the added consideration of young children around. Beyond the obvious safety concerns (have it on your person at all times), you better have the training to make sure you react appropriately in a bad situation (e.g., identifying the target and checking the background for any kids before shooting).

GL in your decision.

[kimwcook]

I agree with alnitak. Everyone that can get a permit, should get a permit. It's a statistic politicians can't deny if they want to remain seated. Plus, no one says you have to start shooting in a bad situation. The totality of the circumstances should dictate the action or lack thereof. "Only in the gravest extremes" should always be foremost in your mind. If I owned a Bible store I'd carry and I'd carry it on me concealed. You never know when you're going to need it and if it isn't with you, well, you might get a chance to get to it when the situation arises.

I don't suggest an ankle carry unless it's the only place you can conceal it. It's slower than strong side and it takes some dedicated practice to be proficient and stay there. Personally, I feel really exposed digging a piece out of an ankle holster. But, if you decide to carry on your ankle get a quality rig and practice. Walking around with a piece on your ankle gets tiresome and believe it or not it takes a beating from your shoes. I have a Dick Kramer ankle holster for my J frame and wore it daily for years. It needs the shearling replaced, but other than that it's good to go. Lightweight web type holsters just don't hold up and they start flopping around generally in short order.

Just my 2 cents.

[RIHMFIRE]

absolutely....get it ...practice and study your states laws..

[Chas.]

First, find out if it's legal to carry in your work. When discussing CCW, you mention the word "school", it sends up a red flag. Find out how your state defines "school".

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

They call em sidearm's for a reason. If you don't have it on you there's no point in having it at all. Sidearm's are only for buying you time to get to your real gun. If you are gonna stash a gun make it a shotgun. Now your hit/stop ratio goes up tremendously.

[awp101]

A couple of things to ponder:

Are you willing to put in the practice time to stay proficient?

Are you comfortable (maybe not the right word) with the concept of "don't pull it unless you're willing to use it"? Don't pull it to intimidate, don't pull it to make a point. If it clears leather, you'd better be ready to go to work and pick up the pieces later.

[TedH]

To me, the question for most folks should be, "Is there any reason I should NOT get my CCW?". Even if you don't plan to carry all the time, every capable adult should have one.

[jd45]

John Bernard Books, (John Wayne), said, in "The Shootist"...."You must be willing, (to USE the gun, that is)...most men aren't". It is a terrible thing to take a person's life, but sometimes the circumstances, which they put into play by their evil behavior, demand it. You have to ask yourself, "Do I have it in me, should it come to that?" If you can't answer that in the positive, & just make a show of having a gun, the BG will take it away from you & kill you, & maybe someone else, with it. Believe THAT! jd45

[rjohns94]

i'm with alnitak

[JerryB]

If you are already thinking about getting a CCW permit, you better go ahead and do what you can. Considering where you live,it may take sometime to get one.

[Hobie]

You should carry. You should obey the law.

[AJMD429]

If you know guns why not? There must be some place in your business that at worst you can hide a small handgun case (safe box) where you can bolt it down and carry the key on you. When you close carry the gun home.

I would NEVER 'stash' a handgun (or any other loaded gun) anywhere at work, other than on my person; that is the ONLY place you absolutely know it is a) safe from unauthorized use, and b) there when you need it.

Unlike the movies, I've never heard a case where the 'scary music' starts just before the good guy is about to be assaulted or killed.

Read Masaad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme", get your CCW license, and carry when you're ready. If you decide not to carry (yet) it isn't a bad thing to have a permit in case you change your mind.

Sometimes you have to disobey the law to be safe; when I worked in pharmacies in Ohio (in the 1970's) the only persons allowed to have a concealed handgun on their person were criminals. All the pharmacists I knew had to choose between protecting themselves and their employees, or being "criminals". THAT was when I realized that any so-called "gun-control" law was an absurdity, contrary to common sense and morality.

[stretch]

I think it depends.

1. Could you shoot another humanoid (not all bipedal vermin are human beings, IMHO),
and live with the consequences?
2. Are you willing to learn to use the weapon correctly?
3. Are you willing to conduct your business in condition yellow while carrying your weapon?
(Google Col. Jeff Cooper if you are unsure what this means.)

If you can answer yes to all of the above questions, you should get it ASAP.
If you are unsure, especially about the answer to question #1, then you might
ought to rethink the idea.

Like AJMD429 advised, read Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme." It's probably the
best book out there for the layman on the issues of defending yourself with a firearm,
both pre- and post- incident. The man knows what he's talking about - far more so
than most gun bugs and LEOs.

I personally fall on the side of yes to all of the questions above.

-Stretch

[pokey]

I think everyone who is qualified to get a CCW should. There are stories everyday in the paper -- home invasions, robberies, attacks on the street, etc. -- that point out the need and the fact that "you never know...." Besides, the more of us that have them, the bigger the political impact we can have and the reduced chance of them taking it away (numbers tell the politicians a story). Having said that, and having lived in the Commie state of MD for many years, it will be difficult to obtain one, and then you have the added consideration of young children around. Beyond the obvious safety concerns (have it on your person at all times), you better have the training to make sure you react appropriately in a bad situation (e.g., identifying the target and checking the background for any kids before shooting).

GL in your decision.

+1 on all that,

but, if you decide not to carry the, paper can save you headaches in other ways. like transporting a firearm,
say to the range or hunting. some states are funny about such things.

[O.S.O.K.]

All's I can say is if I were in your shoes, yes, I would most definately get the permit. I would also carry the gun in a good strong-side IWB holster. You may prefer something like a Kahr-9 which is flatter and holds a couple more rounds than your revolver...

[2571]

After you read Ahab Buffoon's book, watch the Kung Fu episode where Kwai Chiang Caine is asked why he doesn't carry a gun in the everyday violence of the Old West. He responds, "He who would speak convicingly of peace does not go about armed".

I carried a Model 36 in an ankle holster my entire career as a LEO. Thank God I never had to use that gun. Best part of retirement is not having go armed every day.

Children, guns & music won't blend well.

[alnitak]

You might want to look at the pocket guns over the ankle holster. They are easier to conceal and draw than ankle holsters (unless you are sitting). Look at the PM9, P3AT and LCP. Seecamp also makes a great pocket pistol.

I also second the IWB holster. I like it with my PM9. But there are times where the smaller pocket pistol works better.

[AJMD429]

"He who would speak convicingly of peace does not go about armed".

I'm not sure the original poster's mission is to 'convincingly speak of peace', as much as to protect self and family.

Besides, if you're alone and facing someone twice your size, drugged-up and with an attitude, it may be too late for eloquence...

[Tycer]

Yes.

If you get defensive handgun training
and you are willing to practice at least a box of rounds a month every month defensively
and you are willing to change your style of dress or pants size
and you are willing to save a life by taking one
and
and

www.corneredcat.com

I carried a Model 36 in an ankle holster my entire career as a LEO. Thank God I never had to use that gun.

I think I bought your gun. Old Flat Latch, hardly shot, bluing worn where the brass snap rode and all rusted on the left side. Love that gun.

[Cruise]

AJ is right on. It's also about capability and intent. After you master the capability part, examine your intent (you may have to adjust your "headspace"). Ayoob's book is worth assimilating. Look into a Utah carry permit. Utah is recognized in 33 states at last count. Above all: Range time! Also, the advice about the piece being on your person is golden.

[MrMurphy]

Keep one on you. If it's not on you, it won't be handy when you really need it.

Even something small like a Ruger LCP (which disappears in a pocket) is better than nothing. Six .380s in the hand beat a .45 in the safe when it's time to start the party.


As someone who's carried concealed for 10 years (7 really, 3 of that was overseas carrying much heavier weaponry), one time "Need it RIGHT NOW" the fact I was armed kept worse from happening (attempted carjacking) and several other times, the fact I was armed, if things had gotten worse, would have kept me alive most likely.

A .380 or 9mm or .38 in the pocket backed up by a full size piece somewhere else would be my recommendation. And get some training. REAL training not an NRA course.

[Idahoser]

it is your duty to protect yourself and your family. Learn to use the tools that work best for the purpose and have them available.

[Bullard4075]

+1

absolutely....get it ...practice and study your states laws..

[piller]

And, get a pistol you are comfortable with. Kahr (almost any of their models), Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec PM9 or P3AT, or a Rohrbaugh just to name a few which are considered to be good quality and easily concealed. This list is by no means complete and some might argue with one or more of the guns on it. It is just to get you started on where to look.

[Dave]

With your situation I would say the best option is a Smith 642 in a pocket holster. It is not a powerhouse gun but is OK and so light and small it will never bother you. The Kramer pocket holster is very good. If you practice drawing and firing without ammo a few minutes each day and live fire once a month you should develop proficiencey to hit out to 7 yards. Pistol fighting isn't rocket science.

I will say this though. Having a guitar doesn't make you a musician and having a pistol on you doesn't make you a pistolero. Once you have mechanical mastery of the gun you still have to have the right mindset. That involves two opposite things.

One is a "no fight means you win" mentality. Almost every time it is better to call the police and let them handle things if possible. It is aggravating sometimes but for the best. Avoiding big trouble is always the way to go.

Second is in the extreme circumstance you must have first strike mentality. It is no good to shoot second. You will receive the tombstone award for second place. If it has to happen end it fast. Nice guys finish dead. Willingness and aggression are paramount.

Get Jeff Cooper's book "The Principles of Personal Defense". It is a small book but contains a wealth of info. It doesn't sound like you are in a high threat environment so that is good. Good luck.

[Idahoser]

And, get a pistol you are comfortable with. Kahr (almost any of their models), Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec PM9 or P3AT, or a Rohrbaugh just to name a few which are considered to be good quality and easily concealed. This list is by no means complete and some might argue with one or more of the guns on it. It is just to get you started on where to look.

well, the question really didn't ask for this, but since the advice was given I'd like to refute it. All of these are too small and too light and too under powered to be considered primary self-defense weapons. They are 'expert' tools, when you are just looking for a regular tool that has more broad usefulness. For that job, there is nothing better than a medium framed steel .357 Magnum revolver. You don't want to teach yourself very bad habits. Any of the ones recommended above are likely to do that. They're not bad tools, I don't mean that-- but if you're here asking for advice, that is very bad advice to give-- you may choose those for yourself years from now when YOU are the expert people ask for advice.

[AJMD429]

One is a "no fight means you win" mentality. Almost every time it is better to call the police and let them handle things if possible. It is aggravating sometimes but for the best. Avoiding big trouble is always the way to go.

Yep.

Back then, all CCW in Ohio was illegal, but as a 22 year old pharmacy student in Ohio, I'd have to work night shifts in pharmacies in bad neighborhoods sometimes, so I CCW'd a Charter Arms Bulldog with .44 Spl Silvertip HP's. En route to work I stopped by a pre-wedding party of some sort with the girl who was giving me a ride to work, and 'some old drunk guy' was there getting belligerent, while all the students my age were pretty mellow, watching television or just chatting. I didn't really know anyone there, so I figured he must be the bride's dad or something so pretty much stayed out of his way, but eventually he 'caught' me in a narrow hallway and grabbed me by the shirt-collar, spit in my face, and put me up against the wall, saying he didn't like 'my kind' (probably because I had long hair). I told him I'd be glad to just leave than, and he let go and I left; I had to wait outside by her car awhile until the girl I was with came out. When she came out, she told me he'd tried the same thing later on to the groom and his brother, and they put his head through the drywall then called the cops. Turns out he was a college professor who'd been hitting on the bride all year, talked his wife into coming to the party he wasn't even invited to, and had gotten so morose and inappropriate before I'd arrived that his wife had just up and left.

If it would have been ME who escalated, there would have been two problems - 1. a GUN would have been involved, though hopefully not been used, 2. the newspaper would have said "student assaults professor while illegally carrying handgun" and somehow made him look like a little angel. At least with it being the hostesses fiance and his brother it would be harder to 'spin' in the old guy's favor.

Not meaning to 'lecture' the original poster, as you don't sound like someone just eager to get in an altercation, but just emphasizing the "no fight means you win" mindset. That's one of the reasons I like Masaad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" book - he emphasizes that same point.

As far as gun size; get what you can shoot well, are confident, and can conceal reasonably - unless you anticipate being in a situation where CCW would not be allowed. In that case, you face either complying with the law, and dying with the law, or disobeying the law for your own safety. In those cases, like it or not, concealability becomes paramount, and you may have to go with a NAA Mini-revolver in .22 WMR. Not the ideal home-defense gun, but it beats a pointed stick. That's what I would have carried in Ohio if I'd have had one back then.

[awp101]

Pistol fighting isn't rocket science.

It is if you pack a gyrojet...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

[MrMurphy]

The point is, to have a pistol you WILL carry. Every day, all the time.

The Kahr, Keltec and similar get carried. A larger pistol for general use and practice is fine. But the others are "a gun when you don't have a gun" pieces. A small gun at contact distance is better than no gun at all.

And with the profusion of small, easily concealed high capacity 9mm's (S&W M&P 9c for example) the medium frame .357 is much heavier, far lower capacity, and while a good holster piece for belt wear, nowdays, not necessarily the best choice.

[Hillbilly]

the time and place will not be of your choosing. Get whatever your state allows to make yourself "legal"... and do it.

I never was a proponent of "off body carry"... first off- you have to find the gun if you need it... and if your not in control of it... some one else could be.

Training is paramount. We shoot a "defensive gun match" in Edmond once a month ... and a attend few CCW-- Shooting Classes every year---they are a cheap investment and worth much more than they cost.

Good Luck

[piller]

And, get a pistol you are comfortable with. Kahr (almost any of their models), Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec PM9 or P3AT, or a Rohrbaugh just to name a few which are considered to be good quality and easily concealed. This list is by no means complete and some might argue with one or more of the guns on it. It is just to get you started on where to look.

well, the question really didn't ask for this, but since the advice was given I'd like to refute it. All of these are too small and too light and too under powered to be considered primary self-defense weapons. They are 'expert' tools, when you are just looking for a regular tool that has more broad usefulness. For that job, there is nothing better than a medium framed steel .357 Magnum revolver. You don't want to teach yourself very bad habits. Any of the ones recommended above are likely to do that. They're not bad tools, I don't mean that-- but if you're here asking for advice, that is very bad advice to give-- you may choose those for yourself years from now when YOU are the expert people ask for advice.

While a medium frame steel .357 Magnum is a very good gun in most circumstances, it is quite often difficult to conceal. Here in Texas where it is 70 degrees or more 9 months out of the year, it would print itself on your clothes or your clothes would seem out of place. If you would try one of the Kahr 9mm pistols with the polymer frame, you might be impressed with their ease of use. My daughter can use a Kahr CW9 and she likes it better than her mother's GP100.
Since the question was whether to get a CCW (known as a CHL where I live), I took the answer a step further by suggesting guns to carry. The license without the gun is still just a piece of laminated paper.

[JerryB]

As you can see,some folks here have their own opinions as to what you should carry. My smallest pistol is a Rossi 2" .38spl, the biggest is a Colt SAA 5 1/2" .45. It all depends on the weather as to what I can carry and cover with a Levi jacket or a big coat. Our summers are hot and humid, so the little Rossi gets a lot of carry. My Smith & Wesson 65 3" round butt gets carry time but is harder to conceal. If Arkansas had open carry my big Colt .45 would be carried everyday without a doubt.
Shoot and carry what YOU are comfortable with.

[Lobo]

Hi All,

I can remember a while back, looking around on a Sunday morning and realizing that nine people in church with me were carrying. Get your permit.

[AJMD429]

The time and place will not be of your choosing.

What ?? . . . Isn't it just after the scary music starts?

[Catshooter]

Concealed carry, no matter what you carry or where, can be a pain in the butt sometimes. But CC is controlled by and is all about your attitude. Sometimes attitude is adjusted by experience.

I hear all the posters saying to get something small, something you'll carry, a small gun is better than none. All that is very workable but conventional wisdom. If your attitide is that it probably won't happen to you, but it could so any gun is better than none, and that is the case for most people that carry, then a small gun is probably what you'll carry.

People that have used a concealed weapon for real though and esp. those who have done so more than once, you'll often hear different advise from them.

If they used a high capacity weapon and some of the bad guys didn't just drop right there they sometimes opt for the 45. If they used a 45 and were out or almost out of ammo by the end of the party, they sometimes shift to a high cap.

But in either case, most of these guys have one thing in common; they don't like small guns in the primary carry role. They want medium (Colt Commander, Glock 19) or better yet full size (Colt 1911, Glock 17). And they don't want just one firearm either.

There are of coures exceptions. But if you dig around, read alot, talk to people the above is what you can find. Experience is a powerful learning tool and while you can't buy it, you sure do pay for it. The price can be actually higher than a person can pay.

I've carried for more than forty years. I started small just like many do. But for many years now it's been a medium sized pistol, and it's been at least two firearms and they're allways there. Allways.

It can be wise to listen to the voices of experience. Sometimes they have had their attitudes adjusted!


Cat