Which gun should I take?

[xxclaro]

I'm having a hard time deciding which rifle to take on an upcoming hunt. We will be hunting close to Grande Prairie,Alberta. I will have elk,moose,whitetail and possibly black bear tags. The area has a pretty healthy population of Grizzly too,although they are protected.
I am trying to decide between 3 rifle's,each having it's own pro's and cons's.
At first I had thought to take my Remington 700 .270 with 150gr. Partitions. The rifle is reliable,carries a 4-12x scope and is accurate enough with 1" groups at 100 yards with my handloads. No spectacular,but adequate. The downside's-it's not as nice to carry as the other two, not as quick to the shoulder,slower follow up shots and probably less effective than the other 2 for close range grizz defense.
The second choice was my Win 94 BB in .444 Marlin. Just as accurate or more so than the .270, better for bear defense and I feel better suited to moose than the .270,although I'd feel fine with the .270 as well. It also has it's iron sights as well as a 1.5-4.5 Swift scope.
However, it does have an issue. The "under carrier jam" has manifested itself one time with this rifle. Unfortunatley, that one time came right after shooting a whitetail. Luckily I didn't need the second shot. I was tinkering with it tonight,and although it never jammed when operating it normally, I can make it jam if I manipulate the lever just so. I checked my .307,which has never done this, and I can also cause the under carrier jam if I do the same thing with it.
My third option is my .356,also a 94 BB. It is also a 1" shooter with 220gr Speer's. It has a 1.5-4.5 Bushnell,which has given me many years of reliable service. It no longer has iron sights though.
This gun was the worst of my BB's when it came to under carrier jams. I finally welded up and reshaped the carrier link stop on it a few years ago and it has never done it since. I tried to make it jam tonight using hte same back and forth lever motion that caused jams on the .307 and .444. I was unsuccesful in creating a jam. However, I may have left the stop a bit long/high, because sometimes the cartridge in the tube will hang up for a second before popping out onto the carrier. I've never really had it cause an issue,as it has never hung up completely. However,for a fast follow up shot it might prove to be an issue.
So, what do you think I should do? Stick with the .270 for it's range and reliability or go with one of the levers? I really do prefer the levers to hunt with, but the .270 has proven itself for me on numerous occasions as well. Only the .356 has taken more game for me. I could also take the .444 and load one in the chamber and then another in the mag, ensuring no jams.
The terrain in this area is fairly thick bush,with some really nice open meadows stretching 300+ yards. It's also crisscrossed with narrow dirt oilfield lease roads,which are nice to just quietly walk down. Moose particularily will often just pop out onto the road,presenting quick and close shots.
Also I should mention that for about 7 of the 10 days will be spent archery hunting,as the rifle season won't be open. I will be carrying the rifle at all times for bear protection,as recommended by the Fish and Wildlife officer in that area. At the end of the archery season we will stay for the first few days of rifle season. Hopefully we've at least managed to locate and pattern the elk by then and if we haven't managed to connect with the bows, the rifles will come out.
What would you do in this situation?

[TedH]

From the description of the terrain and critters involved, I would be most comfortable with the 444.

[AJMD429]

From the description of the terrain and critters involved, I would be most comfortable with the 444.

Me too - I'd just trade the Winchester in and get a Marlin. . .

(...just kidding, really... )

[RustyJr]

If it were me I would take the 270. Most importntly would be the reliability factor. But also it is flat enough to shoot out to 300 yards and if you crank it down to 4 power you should be good for up close. . .then again it could be that I'm recomending it because it is one of my favorite hunting rounds


RustyJr

[Paul Jenkins]

Sir,
Your first concern is reliability, second is power for the big ones. The 444 is the only one capable
of the game, but, it is not reliable. Stay home until you have adequate firepower. The 444 would
be OK loaded max. The others will kill, but on the low end. I know the puniest cartridge will kill.
You seem under prepared. You mentioned hunting the biggest game in the US.. Give yourself & the game a chance. I speak from experience, crippiled game you can't find is a downer.

[xxclaro]

If I don't trust the .444 to be reliable,I'll probably take the .356. Like I said, most of the time we'll be bowhunting and the rifle will be for bear defense. The rifle will only be used for hunting the last few days if the bowhunting has been unsuccessful. I have no doubts about the ability of any of these rounds to do the job on our intended targets. It's more the Grizz that I'm worried about. I still am thinking that the .444,even with 2 rounds loaded, would be a decent choice. The chances of getting off more than two shots in a self defence situation is probably unlikley. I try to remember that lots of people hunt with single shot rifles so I'm still ahead of the game when you think about it like that.
Also, the .348 Winchester was considered in it's time to be a pretty potent round and quite capable of grizzly by those who hunted them. Looking at the ballistics charts, the .356 with a 220gr bullet at 2450 or so is pretty close to the .348. It's also quite capable of 200 yard shots. Maybe I'll take the .356........... Well, this isn't getting any easier!

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
IF this is for Protection then I would NOT consider the 444 as reliable. It already failed in a hunting situation.
My upbringing was " A bigger hole is always better". So that takes us to the other lever gun. 35 caliber bullet from a rifle over 2000fps is going to hurt any critter real bad. And for bear I can work a lever action 2x+ faster than any bolt.
Mike in Peru

[madman4570]

Dump the .444 (wouldnt have a questionable gun)

Buy a Savage 111 in 7MM Rem Mag (they have a package with a 3X9 Simmons for like $350)
Tell them to swap the scope for a 3X9 Tasco "World Class" and pay the tiny bit extra.
Have heard very good stuff about this gun and with some stiff 175gr bullets from the 7MM Mag you wont have quite the pucker factor while hunting!

Bang for the buck----That combo is hard to beat!

Otherwise---------The .270

[TedH]

Why not just fix the 444 if it's reliability is an issue?

[xxclaro]

I think I may try to fix the .444 and take it. It took me a long time to work up the nerve to take my welder to the .356! It just got so bad that I had no choice,and luckily it turned out well. The .444 hasn't been nearly as bad so I've been putting it off. Question-whats the best way to remove the link in order to do the repair? When I did it to the .356 I was unable to get it totally off the gun and had to do the job with it still attached. If I could take it off completley I'd feel much better about it.

[jnyork]

Pretty darn hard to shoot the (elk, moose, bear, rock chuck, etc) when the rifle is jammed up. An unreliable rifle on a hunting trip like that, or any hunting trip for that matter, is a surefire recipe for disappointment at best and disaster at worst. Rest assured, the "occasional malfunction" WILL manifest itself at the worst possible time (remember Murphy?)

Take the lever gun if you must, but be sure your gunbearer/porter has the .270 within arm's reach at all times. If you cant do it with the .270, better not mess with it, or call in an airstrike.

[Malamute]

I wouldnt even consider taking an unreliable rifle into bear country, no matter what the caliber. If it can't be made 100%, I'd leave it home, or trade it off.

The 348 you mentioned tends to be an extemely reliable platform in the model 71 Winchester or Browning. That, or an 1886 would be my choice in levers. I'd get one if the big bore 94's can't be made absolutely reliable in those chamberings.

The 270 should do just fine. Does it have good iron sights for backup or bear duty? If not, there's time to get good sights put on it. Your gun may be factory drilled and tapped for sights if they are not already installed.

[madman4570]

Problem is even if you think you fixed it,how long do you have for reliability testing before your trip.
Also no matter what "way back in your mind you are going to be wondering if a big Grizz came a charging I wonder?? Dont need that stuff when your comcentration should be 100% on the Hunt.

No way in heck I would take that gun especially if I didnt have a 6 shot Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull that was strapped to my side and loaded with 6 ---360grain Corbon Penetrators.

[samb]

Take the .270!

Here's a couple bear stories for bedtime http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/57544

http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/57144

[gak]

+ 1 .270. Also +1 I wouldn't take an unreliable gun into the field.

[rodeo kid]

Take your .444 to a good gunsmith and get it fixed! God Bless.

[Nath]

If you take the Rem just check the extractor is sitting nice in the bolt and looks sharp. They can pack up!

When you say get your levers to jam just what are you doing to them to get them to jam?

Is it different from normal field shooting that jams them?

Nath.

[xxclaro]

Nath- to make them jam what I do is work the lever till the round pops up on the carrier. I then close the bolt about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way before moving it back again. It's actually hard to do,so I slide the first cartridge into the chamber so I can see down into the action. If I work the lever back and forth just enough to not quite drop the carrier,I can get the next cartridge in line to jump over the stop and lodge under the carrier. The .307 I've been shooting for 10 years and I've never had it malfunction in the field. However,I was still able to recreate this malfunction using the technique I mentioned. I was actually quite surprised by that. The .356 wouldn't so it, and I haven't checked the .375 yet,although it also has never done it to me.
I will likely take the .270,unfortunately,althoug I am toying with the idea of taking the .444 and just loading 2 rounds.
There are not many gunsmiths around here, and the only one I know doesn't really work on levers as far as I know. I can probably fix it myself like I did the .356, but like someone else said I'd like to put it through the wringer before taking it out on a big hunt.

[Griff]

Why not just fix the 444 if it's reliability is an issue?

+1

But I don't think the 356 is any slouch either.

[L_Kilkenny]

I'm not a fan of the .270 but never the less that's what I would take. While I'm fairly confident that your shooting will be up close I'd still want a 300 yard gun on, what would be to me, a once in a lifetime hunt. I would dump the 4-12x and put a 2-7x on it. 2x is much better than 4x in the brush in my experience and 7x is not too light at longer ranges. I think everyone covered the disadvantages of taking the .444 so...........

LK

[madman4570]

The terrain in this area is fairly thick bush,with some really nice open meadows stretching 300+ yards. At the end of the archery season we will stay for the first few days of rifle season. Hopefully we've at least managed to locate and pattern the elk by then and if we haven't managed to connect with the bows, the rifles will come out.
What would you do in this situation?

First key thing to remember,since you are going to be Archery Hunting the most------remember that the Elk/Moose are so much larger than a deer" most people misjudge the distance to the animal(they think they are much closer than they really are and under shoot them)like thinking they are 20yds when really they are 33yds and there goes your trophy with that arrow sliding right under Mr. Elks belly.

Also if you do by the end of the Archery stint have fiqured out the elks area you are probably going to have a fairly long shot.Like finding them coming out in one of those meadows.
Just cant see why you want that 444 with the trajectory like a stone at longer range.
Given the fact that the newer 140gr loads of the .270 easily equal that of the old tried and true .264 Win Mag(verified the specs of each) and the .270 having at least 3000ftlbs of Energy(as much as the .444)more as the distance opens up.
I just think at least take both guns in case you find later you are going to need a long range rifle.
The .444 if indeed you are positive its 100% reliable to be carried while bow hunting sure.
Once bow hunting ends grab the .270

[Buffboy]

While I like the 270 cartridge, I see nothing wrong with the idea of taking the 356. If you shoot it well, it's quite capable of your stated maximum 300 yard shots. With your mentioned load it would be effective medicine on any of the game you plan on taking.

It's a bit on the low end for "up close" bear defense but it's really no slouch in that department, being miles better than nearly any pistol round. Bear defense is really an unlikely occurrence. I would have no qualms about hunting bear with that load and caliber. Hunting and defense are two different things.

If you get the 444 fixed it's a bit better for the least likely scenario but fine for all the others, though 300 yard shots are a bit of a stretch if you don't have the range doped right.

[brno602]

Take the .270! as a fellow Alberta boy the .270 will be fine. Since your a bow hunter you know where to put the bullet IE behind the shoulder through the lungs or high heart shot try and stay away from the big shoulder bone.
When I was 18 I bought a real Elk rifle lol a BRNO 602 in .375H&H it's my fave gun I am 41 now I still use the BIG gun but to be honest if I dont have to take a South shot on a North bound Elk or Moose any gun Bigger than a 6mm will work fine.
P.S you know I never had to take a Texas heart shot yet.
I do like the big Bolt guns because you never know, will the shot be 25yds or 300? I really hope you get it at 25yds with your Bow I have only taken Deer with my bow and they died real fast only went 40yds or so.

[Nath]

Nath- to make them jam what I do is work the lever till the round pops up on the carrier. I then close the bolt about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way before moving it back again. It's actually hard to do,so I slide the first cartridge into the chamber so I can see down into the action. If I work the lever back and forth just enough to not quite drop the carrier,I can get the next cartridge in line to jump over the stop and lodge under the carrier. The .307 I've been shooting for 10 years and I've never had it malfunction in the field. However,I was still able to recreate this malfunction using the technique I mentioned. I was actually quite surprised by that. The .356 wouldn't so it, and I haven't checked the .375 yet,although it also has never done it to me.
I will likely take the .270,unfortunately,althoug I am toying with the idea of taking the .444 and just loading 2 rounds.
There are not many gunsmiths around here, and the only one I know doesn't really work on levers as far as I know. I can probably fix it myself like I did the .356, but like someone else said I'd like to put it through the wringer before taking it out on a big hunt.

It's not going to happen then is it (the jam)! In a sweat I'd say a feller could short stroke a bolt gun more easily, especially a long action!

Nath.

[tman]

take the .356wcf. all are excellent choices with power to spare. i'm a 356, 348 fan .