Marlin chambered for 460 S&W

[Gallo Pazzesco]

Has anyone heard any rumblings about a possible factory Marlin in 460 S&W planned once they get moved?

Anyone know if Mic has thought about trying to chamber one in 460 S&W yet?

Seems like it would be fairly easy to do given the brass/rim similarities between the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt.

I know I'd sure be interested putting one in the rack beside my Marlin 1894P in 44 Mag, a couple of 336s, a cherry pre-64 Win '94, a three year old Marlin Cowboy Octagon LTD in 357/38 and a slightly older one in 45 Colt, and a recently acquired Marlin 338MX.

[.45colt]

Welcome to the Fire. unless it was a newly designed action I don't think any current Marlin could withstand the pressure of the 460. surley some of our senior Gunners will add info. I would be glad to sit around 100yds away with My beverage of choice and watch while the "test" shots are made. just like when the Boys at the farm are shooting off pipe bombs. .

[AJMD429]

Yep. No-go for anything longer or hotter than a .44 Mag or .45 Colt in the 1894, or a .444 Marlin or .45-70 mid-range load in a 336.

Bummer.

It would be nice to have a CCW 3" DA .45 Colt, a Farm Pistol 7" SA .454 Casull, with a matching Carbine, and a Rifle-sized levergun in .460 S&W. Just one sizer-die, and I might even take up casting lead again... What else would you need...!

[piller]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

[COSteve]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

Actually, its Bighorn Armory.

[Gallo Pazzesco]

Thanks Men ... guess I'll just have to cross my fingers and wait and hope Marlin sees the need. I'm wondering why something in the MX or XLR line could not be bored to handle the 460 S&W though? Seems like 338 has to be pushing similar, if not more, pressures?

Thanks for the welcome.

[Buffboy]

Thanks Men ... guess I'll just have to cross my fingers and wait and hope Marlin sees the need. I'm wondering why something in the MX or XLR line could not be bored to handle the 460 S&W though? Seems like 338 has to be pushing similar, if not more, pressures?

Thanks for the welcome.

338 Express is loaded to 46,500 PSI which is pretty close to the maximum the 336 action can take without battering itself to pieces, long term. It will take higher pressures but not for very long, and who wants a rifle that will need total replacement in 100 rounds. It does this with a much larger case capacity than the 460. 460 S&W is loaded to 60,000 PSI, the 336 could take that once, maybe twice, without coming apart in an explosive way. You would need a bigger case, for more of a slower powder to equal 460 performance in the 336 action, such as the 450 marlin or 45-70 (handloaded). You'll just have to wait and see if Big Horn Armory brings out a 460 version of their rifle as it will handle those kinds of pressures.

[Buck Elliott]

Tried to answer this from my cell phone connection last night, when I couldn't sleep anyway...

The .460 S&W is TOO MUCH cartridge for any levergun Marlin has, or likely will ever have, in their line-up. Like the .454 Casull, the .460 runs at 65,000 psi chamber pressure (Max. Average) which would quickly batter a Marlin 1895 or 336 to pieces. In our .454 trials, the 336 we tested lasted fewer than 15 rounds of factory-equivalent 300-gr. loads, which battered the locking lug and bolt, and bulged the right wall of the receiver, to the point that the gun would no longer cycle reliably or safely, and headspace had increased dangerously.

"Pressure" is not the only problem, but combines with the speed at which it is developed, and the inertia of the big bullets usually employed in such rounds. Call it the "Hammer Effect," if you will. The relatively quick-burning powders necessary to make the .460 run like it has been advertized, also contribute to the more-rapid pressure spike. The case is just not big enough to take full advantage of many of the slower powders on the market.

Something like my design, or the one coming from Big Horn Armory (when they get the kinks out...) will be needed to contain the .460.

SAAMI-member manufacturers (or anyone else with a functioning brain) will not knowingly build guns that are not compatible with full-pressure ammunition. I know, it sometimes happens, in the rush to market, but usually the results are recalled and/or discontinued...

[t.r.]

I shot a 454 Casull revolver once. Just once. The shock wave gave me an instant headache. No kidding.

I was wearing ear protection muffs at the time.

Perhaps a carbine would be different but 460 is still a short range slayer.

TR

[Buck Elliott]

I can understand your reaction, IF the .454 you fired had been ported... To me, the sensation reminds me of what it must be like to be swatted hard in the face with a catcher's mitt...

I fired over 10,000 rounds through my own FA .45, with 7 1/2" plain, unported barrel, and did not have the reaction you had, in just ONE round.

The only FA .454 that gave me pause was a 12" PORTED revolver. There was simply nowhere for the recoil to go, other than straight back into my wrists and elbows. Quite uncomfortable, I must say.

OTOH, I fired a cylinderful of .454s from a ported Taurus Raging Bull once upon a time. You couldn't run fast enough to GIVE me one of those misbegotten boat anchors...

BUT... To answer the OP, once again: NO, there is NO WAY you can safely and reliably stuff either a .454 Casull, .460 S&W or a .500 S&W cartridge into any existing Marlin levergun, and still have any reasonable margin of safety -- or any margin at all, frankly.

[dpe.ahoy]

Marlin, no. Rossi action is to short for the 460, but I have 2 of the 454's and they are pretty awesome16" and 20". DP

[Gallo Pazzesco]

Wow - okay then. That satisfies my curiosity and I'll take it off my wish list. Going to keep my fingers crossed.

All the information is much appreciated men.

[Gallo Pazzesco]

Marlin, no. Rossi action is to short for the 460, but I have 2 of the 454's and they are pretty awesome 16" and 20". DP

The Rossies might handle the pressure but the Marlins ... never?

[AJMD429]

Marlin, no. Rossi action is to short for the 460, but I have 2 of the 454's and they are pretty awesome 16" and 20". DP

The Rossies might handle the pressure but the Marlins ... never?

I think that is the consensus.

Now if price isn't an object, there IS a company making what looks like a 'Marlin' (much beefed-up and supposedly re-engineered internally as well) in .500 Linebaugh, .500 S&W (I know), etc., that could certainly be a man's "do-it-all" levergun. The .460 S&W is a much longer cartridge, and I don't think fits in the short-action levergun design.

DRC > DRC Firearms

Bighorn Armory > Bighorn Armory

[sore shoulder]

SAAMI-member manufacturers (or anyone else with a functioning brain) will not knowingly build guns that are not compatible with full-pressure ammunition. I know, it sometimes happens, in the rush to market, but usually the results are recalled and/or discontinued...

Marlins .480/.475 comes to mind. I recall being very excited to get one to match my .480 SRH. When Marlin backed out and cancelled the project, I was disappointed enough that I sold my custom 4 1/2" .480 SRH.

After much consideration on the subject over the years, I'm still trying to understand what any of those, including the 500 S&W, will do that a 45-70 won't. And that's coming from a born hot rodder that cant seem to resist souping up anything mechanical or otherwise to be faster and more powerful. The recently smoked laptop after a failed cpu upgrade that's sitting on my desk is testimony to that.

[harry]

SAAMI-member manufacturers (or anyone else with a functioning brain) will not knowingly build guns that are not compatible with full-pressure ammunition. I know, it sometimes happens, in the rush to market, but usually the results are recalled and/or discontinued...

Marlins .480/.475 comes to mind. I recall being very excited to get one to match my .480 SRH. When Marlin backed out and cancelled the project, I was disappointed enough that I sold my custom 4 1/2" .480 SRH.

After much consideration on the subject over the years, I'm still trying to understand what any of those, including the 500 S&W, will do that a 45-70 won't. And that's coming from a born hot rodder that cant seem to resist souping up anything mechanical or otherwise to be faster and more powerful. The recently smoked laptop after a failed cpu upgrade that's sitting on my desk is testimony to that.

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 HP and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

And someone will ask why I would load 700 gr bullets in the 500, because I can.

[Streetstar]

Marlin, no. Rossi action is to short for the 460, but I have 2 of the 454's and they are pretty awesome 16" and 20". DP

The Rossies might handle the pressure but the Marlins ... never?

Winchester 1892 action the Rossi uses is stronger than Marlins stuff

[sore shoulder]

SAAMI-member manufacturers (or anyone else with a functioning brain) will not knowingly build guns that are not compatible with full-pressure ammunition. I know, it sometimes happens, in the rush to market, but usually the results are recalled and/or discontinued...

Marlins .480/.475 comes to mind. I recall being very excited to get one to match my .480 SRH. When Marlin backed out and cancelled the project, I was disappointed enough that I sold my custom 4 1/2" .480 SRH.

After much consideration on the subject over the years, I'm still trying to understand what any of those, including the 500 S&W, will do that a 45-70 won't. And that's coming from a born hot rodder that cant seem to resist souping up anything mechanical or otherwise to be faster and more powerful. The recently smoked laptop after a failed cpu upgrade that's sitting on my desk is testimony to that.

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

I'm getting 1450fps with a 560gr cast bore rider from a guide gun and I'm not even pushing the pressures, still have room in the case, it cycles an unfired round, will chamber with bullet seated out even further, and would easily cycle a longer round with some mild porting of the ejection port. With a 20" barrel I have no doubt I could match that. At one time I was designing a 700gr heavy jacketed bore rider bullet, and I plan to pick that up again using my swaging press one of these days.

But why? I'm actually considering cutting down the guide gun barrel to 16", and cutting down the buttstock to make it shorter.

And if I need something shorter I can always get a BFR.

I need to send Blaine some of those 560's so he can chrono them from his BFR.

[J Miller]

I shot a 454 Casull revolver once. Just once. The shock wave gave me an instant headache. No kidding.

I was wearing ear protection muffs at the time.

Perhaps a carbine would be different but 460 is still a short range slayer.

TR

I had the opportunity to fire one of the S&W 460 vented short barreled revolvers.
5 rounds of 454 Casull and 5 rounds of Hornady 460 S&W ammo.
In an indoor range. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Yes, I did have a screaming headache after that, but it satisfied a curiosity of mine.


My hands were inside the fire ball and at every shot it felt as if someone had slapped me in the face with a scalding hot air blast.

Just me you understand, but I see NO REASON to even buy one of those guns.
They are too big, and wont do anything a well loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt wont.

JMHO

Joe

[nemhed]

Just me you understand, but I see NO REASON to even buy one of those guns.
They are too big, and wont do anything a well loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt wont.

JMHO

Joe

I suppose "shock and awe" counts for something if one is facing an enraged brown bear.

[sore shoulder]

I suppose "shock and awe" counts for something if one is facing an enraged brown bear.

Based on what I know, not at all.

[6pt-sika]

SAAMI-member manufacturers (or anyone else with a functioning brain) will not knowingly build guns that are not compatible with full-pressure ammunition. I know, it sometimes happens, in the rush to market, but usually the results are recalled and/or discontinued...

Marlins .480/.475 comes to mind. I recall being very excited to get one to match my .480 SRH. When Marlin backed out and cancelled the project, I was disappointed enough that I sold my custom 4 1/2" .480 SRH.

After much consideration on the subject over the years, I'm still trying to understand what any of those, including the 500 S&W, will do that a 45-70 won't. And that's coming from a born hot rodder that cant seem to resist souping up anything mechanical or otherwise to be faster and more powerful. The recently smoked laptop after a failed cpu upgrade that's sitting on my desk is testimony to that.

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

I'm getting 1450fps with a 560gr cast bore rider from a guide gun and I'm not even pushing the pressures, still have room in the case, it cycles an unfired round, will chamber with bullet seated out even further, and would easily cycle a longer round with some mild porting of the ejection port. With a 20" barrel I have no doubt I could match that. At one time I was designing a 700gr heavy jacketed bore rider bullet, and I plan to pick that up again using my swaging press one of these days.

But why? I'm actually considering cutting down the guide gun barrel to 16", and cutting down the buttstock to make it shorter.

And if I need something shorter I can always get a BFR.

I need to send Blaine some of those 560's so he can chrono them from his BFR.

I have one of BalistiCasts 462-550GC molds and used it a good bit in the circa 1972 Marlin 1895 45-70 that I recently sold . With the extra stock that I'd added a recoil pad that one was not offensive and I had it loaded about as hot as I would be willing to try .With 39 grains of H322 I averaged 1504 FPS for the 6 shots I clocked .The same gun with the BRP 462-465GC and 44.5 grains of H322 averaged 1631 FPS for 6 shots .

[sore shoulder]

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

I'm getting 1450fps with a 560gr cast bore rider from a guide gun and I'm not even pushing the pressures, still have room in the case, it cycles an unfired round, will chamber with bullet seated out even further, and would easily cycle a longer round with some mild porting of the ejection port. With a 20" barrel I have no doubt I could match that. At one time I was designing a 700gr heavy jacketed bore rider bullet, and I plan to pick that up again using my swaging press one of these days.

But why? I'm actually considering cutting down the guide gun barrel to 16", and cutting down the buttstock to make it shorter.

And if I need something shorter I can always get a BFR.

I need to send Blaine some of those 560's so he can chrono them from his BFR.

I have one of BalistiCasts 462-550GC molds and used it a good bit in the circa 1972 Marlin 1895 45-70 that I recently sold . With the extra stock that I'd added a recoil pad that one was not offensive and I had it loaded about as hot as I would be willing to try .With 39 grains of H322 I averaged 1504 FPS for the 6 shots I clocked .The same gun with the BRP 462-465GC and 44.5 grains of H322 averaged 1631 FPS for 6 shots .

I've never tried H322, though I know it's a favorite of many for the 45-70, and I've meant to give it a look a time or two, but so far I've stuck with H4198 for whatever reason. I can tell you the 37.3gr of H4198 behind a 560gr Mt Baldy Lyman #462560 GC bore rider, that's doing 1450 fps from an 18" barrel, is not even stiff recoiling. From the pistol grip 1895 with a 20" barrel and nice buttpad I would even call it mild, wish I had chronoed it from the 1895, but I'm betting it's near 1550 fps based on the 25 fps per inch rule of thumb that seems to be pretty accurate for the 45-70.

When I think of stiff recoil, I've got a load using 54.3gr H4198 behind a 350gr Hornady JRN that will make you want to quit shooting from the bench after 3 rounds out of the guide gun.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

Actually, its Bighorn Armory.

Big Horn Armory's model 89 can handle the pressures of the 460 S&W but they list it as being available only chambered in 500 S&W. I think they're missing the boat not offering this rifle in 460 S&W too.
Their latest variant with Turnbull color case hardened receiver, lever and hammer is a work of art though personally I prefer a straight grip butt stock.

[Hobie]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

Actually, its Bighorn Armory.

Bighorn Armory is the one that actually made it to commercial production. Buck did one long before...

[Hobie]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

Actually, its Bighorn Armory.

Big Horn Armory's model 89 can handle the pressures of the 460 S&W but they list it as being available only chambered in 500 S&W. I think they're missing the boat not offering this rifle in 460 S&W too.
Their latest variant with Turnbull color case hardened receiver, lever and hammer is a work of art though personally I prefer a straight grip butt stock.

That's right purty. I've started saving, again, for one. I keep getting "distracted"...

[sore shoulder]

Whatever happened to WWG's version? I much preferred the side ejecting design that could be scoped, what better way to take advantage of the longer range possibilities of the 500 S&W in a carbine?

[sore shoulder]

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 HP and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

And someone will ask why I would load 700 gr bullets in the 500, because I can.

Hey Harry, what rate of twist does that Encore barrel have? as I sat here thinking about my heavy 45-70 bullets, I remember at one point wondering if I could stabilize them from a factory Marlin twist rate.

[olyinaz]

Buck Elliott's rifle he designed might be the way to go for something like that. I think it is Cody Army who is advertising the .50 Smith & Wesson in a levergun, but maybe a .460 or .454 Casull rifle and a .45lc pistol would be a great combination.

Actually, its Bighorn Armory.

Big Horn Armory's model 89 can handle the pressures of the 460 S&W but they list it as being available only chambered in 500 S&W. I think they're missing the boat not offering this rifle in 460 S&W too.
Their latest variant with Turnbull color case hardened receiver, lever and hammer is a work of art though personally I prefer a straight grip butt stock.

That's right purty. I've started saving, again, for one. I keep getting "distracted"...

Same here Hobie. Originally I was a bit put off the thing, but later black models got me ore interested, the grip shape has grown on me (though I still like some others better), and that case colored model looks just smashing! Offer it with a half octagonal barrel that's a bit longer and I'll be in an absolute sweat!

Oly

[harry]

Never tried it with the 45/70 but I am getting 1300+fps with a 700gr bullet out of my 20" encore 500S&W. I sent Reflex 20 of those 700 and 20 of the 630 HP and he is going to load them up in one of those 4.5 500 s&w pistola's

And someone will ask why I would load 700 gr bullets in the 500, because I can.

Hey Harry, what rate of twist does that Encore barrel have? as I sat here thinking about my heavy 45-70 bullets, I remember at one point wondering if I could stabilize them from a factory Marlin twist rate.

1:20
This is the bullet I shoot: http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?m ... de3vfdn7q2

[Hobie]

Same here Hobie. Originally I was a bit put off the thing, but later black models got me ore interested, the grip shape has grown on me (though I still like some others better), and that case colored model looks just smashing! Offer it with a half octagonal barrel that's a bit longer and I'll be in an absolute sweat!

Oly

The CCH has given me heart palpitations...

[tman]

I have a 94 Bigbore .444 marlin. That's about as hot as i want to go out of a 6 1/4 LB carbine. But then again, everbodys different.

[sore shoulder]

I have a 94 Bigbore .444 marlin. That's about as hot as i want to go out of a 6 1/4 LB carbine. But then again, everbodys different.

Tman, the recoil from the bigger bores with heavy bullets aren't near as violent as the .444. With the lighter bullets loaded hot they are as bad or worse.

[Grizz]

That is one nice looking bullet. Do you hunt with it?
It would be fun in an H&R.

Didn't someone offer a 700 gr 45/70 bullet?

I think James Gates at Dixie has something 700-ish for the 12 ga.
I could put the Matts bullet in a sabot for the pump-musket.

LOL Grizz

[harry]

That is one nice looking bullet. Do you hunt with it?
It would be fun in an H&R.

Didn't someone offer a 700 gr 45/70 bullet?

I think James Gates at Dixie has something 700-ish for the 12 ga.
I could put the Matts bullet in a sabot for the pump-musket.

LOL Grizz

If I go bear hunting again I would use the 500, I do have a H&R 500 barrel and a re-chambered 460 H&R barrel. The H&R that was 45 colt was chambered for the 460 and the factory 45 chamber was cut to deep, the rim had 005 excsive depth for the rim and 003 on lockup. Well that may have worked with the 45 it ruined my 460 brass. So I cut the underlug off the barrel and turned it down to 001 on the rim and 001 on lockup. It is a very good shooter now. If you have a H&R SB2 frame I would give you the 500 barrel Grizz

[AJMD429]

Just me you understand, but I see NO REASON to even buy one of those guns. They are too big, and won't do anything a well loaded 44 Mag or 45 Colt wont.

Sure they will - they can trim (burn off) your beard every time you shoot...!

[AJMD429]

I've started saving, again, for one. I keep getting "distracted"...

You and me both...

[Blaine]

I don't have the BFR anymore... I should have kept it....

[sore shoulder]

I don't have the BFR anymore... I should have kept it....

WHAT!?

[Grizz]

Harry,

Thanks that's a very generous offer. If I were a lot younger I would like to explore that. I am simplifying and don't want to add another caliber at this point. I'm reducing my load to a small boat for the final solution.

Grizz

[Grizz]

I don't have the BFR anymore... I should have kept it....

WHAT!?

it's amazing, isn't it?

[piller]

I am not any sort of gunsmith, nor an engineer. However, I have a couple of Marlins, and can see that the lockup and the sideplate thickness is not what my Model 92 from Rossi has, nor is it as stout as the model 86. I can understand what Buck is telling us just from seeing those 3 rifles I mentioned. I am interested in the Bighorn Armory in 50 S&W, but I keep finding other things that I need to spend my money on.

[6pt-sika]

I have a 94 Bigbore .444 marlin. That's about as hot as i want to go out of a 6 1/4 LB carbine. But then again, everbodys different.

Tman, the recoil from the bigger bores with heavy bullets aren't near as violent as the .444. With the lighter bullets loaded hot they are as bad or worse.

When I was doing a good bit of loading for the 45-70 I found my load with the Ranch Dog 460-425GC to be more abrupt then the loads with the RD 460-300GC , RD 460-350GC , BRP 462-465GC or the BC 462-550GC .

As to the 444 I've spent far more time messing with them in all bullet weights from 200-420 grains and recoil from them for me was no where near what I got from 45-70 top loads . But then that may be the difference in the rifles also . That old 1972 Model 1895 I had when it was wearing the buttstock with the curved hard plastic buttplate could be brutal . I shot a bunch with the RD 460-425GC and 47 grains of H322 for 1750 FPS . After about two weeks of shooting this stuff 3 or 4 times a week (working loads with different powders as well) I had a knot in my shoulder from the heal on that bastid stock hence the reason for the second stock with the KickEez pad .

Now with all that being said and with me not owning a 45-70 at the moment I STILL think the 45-70 is the better hunting cartridge and FAR easier to get good results with the heavy weight bullets . Fact is about 425 grains is maxed out for the 444 unless one gets some custom chamber on a single shot and seats the bullets way out and that does me no good in my herd of leveractions .

I may have to scrounge around and get myself another H&R Handi in 444 and go on out to about 475 grainers for fun ! If I went that far might be nice to get a 45-70 barrel (since I still have dies , brass and molds) as well .

[6pt-sika]

I don't have the BFR anymore... I should have kept it....

WHAT!?

it's amazing, isn't it?

My gunsmith buddy had a BFR 45-70 for awhile . Recoil wasn't terrible and accuracy was acceptable for hunting with my handloads . Just always felt like that thing needed wheels .

But then I had a S&W in 460 when they first hit the market and I kinda thought that big bastid needed wheels as well .

[Grizz]

go on out to about 475 grainers for fun ! If I went that far might be nice to get a 45-70 barrel

I have a hunch this might be a sweet spot for the 45/70. I have a bunch of 525s and I've contemplated cutting the butts off to get to 475 gr, exactly halfway between 425 and 525. Just for the fun of trying it. My guide gun liked shooting the 460 gr cast performance, but didn't care for the ogive shape. Marshall's nose job feeds perfectly.

I have that RD 425 mold but have not cast any bullets from it. With Marshall's 425 gr I got 1775 fps over 48 gr H322, and 1963 fps over 50 gr. It's a beast but it won't penetrate test media as well as the 525 gr going a sedate 1425 or so with far less recoil.

I concur about the 1895, that's like shooting a 2x4 with an overload. I don't know what it is, but it hammers harder on the butt end than the H&R steel butt plate. Starting to think it's the barrel length. Ever notice that? Same with the 444s. I wonder about a longer and shorter barrel for those.

good morning

[sore shoulder]

Grizz I think it's a combination of barrel length and stock geometry. Shoot an 1895 with pistol grip stock and longer barrel with a decent buttpad. In fact I think it's more to do with stock geometry, which is why I want to reconfigure mine as a pistol grip.

[Grizz]

I've thought about that, but my wrist favors the straight grip for some reason.

I noticed that my son's 444 with a pistol grip and 22" barrel also seemed to recoil more than the guide gun.

The guide gun does have a decent recoil pad on it. And the browning has a 22" barrel but doesn't seem to bother me the way the Marlin 1895 does.

I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but I notice that Marlin. The only reason I keep it is that it's a perfect match to my straight grip 30-30.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Whatever happened to WWG's version? I much preferred the side ejecting design that could be scoped, what better way to take advantage of the longer range possibilities of the 500 S&W in a carbine?

How about the DRC?
http://drcfirearmsoutdoors.businesscata ... tion-rifle

[Grizz]

Back to the 700 gr bullet for a minute. Here are James Gates 12 fa slug loads.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

I like the looks of the 73 cal 870 gr unit at the bottom of the page.

Has anyone used this?

Grizz

[sore shoulder]

Back to the 700 gr bullet for a minute. Here are James Gates 12 fa slug loads.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

I like the looks of the 73 cal 870 gr unit at the bottom of the page.

Has anyone used this?

Grizz

Grizz did you notice the choke requirement for that bullet in a smoothbore? I know nothing about chokes etc and with a tactical short smoothbore barrel it seems you wouldn't be able to use that bullet.