OT - educate me about suppressors

[AJMD429]

I know that many levergunners are 'traditionalists', and I know that 'suppressors' seem to sound sinister to many traditionalists (although many vintage Marlins and Winchesters of the late 19th/early 20th century came with and without threads for suppressors), but I have a couple class III shotguns that I don't really use or need, and if I'm going to have something 'federal' in registration, I'd just as soon have a suppressor for my AR-15 and my Tec-22 pistol (or any other .223 or .22 LR I might get threaded later on).

But I've never owned a suppressor, and know very little about them. Of course I could log on to some of the 'EBR' websites, but it always seems most other sites are so full of blowhards and know-it-alls (...yes, even more than 'ours'. . . ) that it is too hard to sort out fact from fiction, plus some of the folks seem to think that if you don't have the bestest and costliest, you're playing with junk.

Here's some of my questions:

• > Since .22 LR is 'dirtier' than .223, I assume I want one that can be disassembled to clean it, right...?
  > Since .223 is 'blastier' than .22 LR, I assume I want one that is very sturdy and big enough to stifle .223, right...?
  > Since I don't really want one for hiding under my James Bond assassin jacket, I assume I don't need an especially 'compact' one, right...?
  > Any Class III dealers you know personally who are good to deal with...?
  > I'd like to deal with someone reasonable, for I would like to do a trade using one or both of my Striker shotguns, and would hope to get some cash back, or perhaps some other 'gun' related item or service (...a suppressor for a .444 Marlin would be rather interesting...)

Any other advice or comments is welcome...!

FYI - Here's what a "Striker" looks like:

[firefuzz]

I've got one for my .22lr that works great, the stray cat population in my area has decreased dramatically. A .223 can will work for a .22LR, .22Mag, or 17HMR, but like you say any of those rounds are far dirtier than a .223 so get on that can be disassembled. You'll use it far more on the .22LR than the other cartridges as subsonic ammo is readily available. Yankee Hill Machine makes good cans although mine is a Tactical Innovations TAC-65.

The actual "tube" is the licensed part and can't be replaced by the manufacture without another tax stamp. Removable baffles and end caps can. Make sure any gun you intend to use it on is actually set up right, threads concentric with the bore, as to not cause any problems.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=20 There's a lot of chest beating here, but a lot of good info too.

Rob

[HEAD0001]

You can find all the information you would ever want to know on this forum. Including dealers in your particular state. You have to buy from a transfer dealer in your state. You can purchase from somewhere else. But it has to be delivered through your in state dealer.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/index.php

I just bought a 22 caliber Yankee Hill suppressor for $450. I had it transferred to my local dealer, and he charges $35 to do the paperwork. Plus the $200 for each Federal Permit that has to be applied for through the FBI. You also need to have your local law enforcement officials sign off on your purchase. It takes a good bit of time.

It is just like any thing else you buy. You get what you pay. But be careful cause you can dump a ton of money into a suppressor. IMO they are unbelievably over priced. But you can thank the Federal regulations for that.

You can use the same one on your 223 that you use on your 22 LR. You just need an additional adapter. And have your barrels threaded for them. You can even switch the adapter if you want to. I know one guy who bought a 30 caliber suppressor and uses it on a couple different calibers. It will work almost as well on a 22 caliber as the 308. It Is pretty hard to notice the difference. But there is a slight difference. It really depends more on the quality of the suppressor rather than the caliber it is designed for. Tom.

[Mokwaw]

Hi Doc,
I suggest you contact Kent Lomont www.kentlomont.com He is a former Indiana boy now living in Idaho. He is a Class III dealer and builds suppressors or at least used to. He can tell you any thing you would want to know about suppressors and/or probably any machine gun ever made. He used to (maybe still does) come to the big Indy gun show every year with several tables of goods, and usually makes the Knob Creek machine gun shoots in Kentucky.

[fordwannabe]

I believe he also spent a little time with an old bronc buster named Elmer. Just talking to him might make for a great experience, much less getting a suppressor(I still can't figure out how to load my Henry with a suppressor attached or it would have been threaded already). Tom

[AJMD429]

I still can't figure out how to load my Henry with a suppressor attached or it would have been threaded already.

It would look strange, but could you replace the front barrel band with a 'taller' one to angle the loading tube a bit away from the bore axis...? You could even get an extra magazine tube and forend, and 'S' bend it up close to the receiver, as long as the removable tube didn't extend as far as the curve in the outer one. You'd need to make another forend as well.

Sounds like I need to 'get out more' and go to some gun shows. There USED to be half a dozen class III dealers in the area, but there are fewer now.

[Renegade Master]

It often amuses me that in the UK we are massively restricted with gun ownership compared to the US, yet can get suppressors (or moderators as they are generally known here) with ease. Go figure.

[Cliff]

Don't know a whole lot about them, but if you are an Incorporated Business you may be able to avoid the $200 Tax problems and stuff by buying it as a part of the corporation. The Corporation becomes the owner and it remains as an asset of that corporation. This applies to most all of the class III items. Some years back I knew several Doctors who used their corporations to aquire some submachine guns as a security move. No hassles involved, but I cannot remember if they bought direct from the maker or through dealers. This was back when doctors kept a lot of drugs in their businesses and carried them away from the businesses for home visits and such. May not be doable in this day and age. I know several who did have to pull them out when drug heads thought they were an easy target. They weren't. Good Luck.

[bdhold]

It often amuses me that in the UK we are massively restricted with gun ownership compared to the US, yet can get suppressors (or moderators as they are generally known here) with ease. Go figure.

historically, it's not that difficult to explain.
arms have always been regulated in your nation, starting as a privilege of the peerage, and gradually moving down the social hierarchy - no offense - but for the common people, a controlled and regulated device stored and distributed by the local constabulary.
It was the opposite here, our nation grew up on the frontier and taking a man's firearm was taking his livelihood and very likely his life.
As the wild west grew into the roaring twenties and depression-era gangsters, our law enforcement found themselves outgunned by military weapons. There was a rash of constitutional-level legislation written in the 1920s-30s, and banning/regulating types of arms was one of those.
Since that time, we have experienced a shell-game of hide and take, where either side of the arms vs. no-arms debate will take anything to whittle away at the legislation supporting the other side. We can't have suppressors, OK, now we can have suppressors with certain restrictions; no assault weapons, OK, certain assault weapons; you can have brass, but you can't have primers, etc.

And of course, the most vocal opponents to the right to keep and bear arms are themselves the modern peerage of our country, who want to arm their personal bodyguards, and disarm the public.

[Rusty]

Along the lines of what Cliff said, my local Class III dealer told me that if I wanted anything the best thing to do is to set up a trust. I'm not lawyer but I think it would be easier than setting up a corp. just for the purpose of buying class III items. The dealer says that once the trust is set up the trustee (me) can do almost anything they want in the name of the trust. There is no getting approved by the local law. you buy the product and he sends the copies of the transaction off to the Feds. If you already have a corporation you could do it through them I guess and the end result would be the same.

Of the things you want to shoot through them, you'll need to keep things sub sonic ( below aprox 1,000 FPS) for it to be most effective. You can put a can on a .223 but you'll still get a sonic crack from the bullet. There is also a magazine put out that deals with Class III things called "Small Arms Review" you might look for if you have a good news stand near by.

IMHO a 10/22 makes a dandy mount for a suppressor. But then with a bolt action you don't have any action noise. Rimfirecentral.com also has a section that deals with them.

[Hobie]

Yankee Hill makes the Maxims for USFA. The Maxims have the off-set attachment so that, when properly timed, the bulk of the can is below line of sight and normal sights can be used. The old standard thread was 1/2x20 but that has changed to 1/2x24 I think. I have been playing with the idea of getting one for my Remington 12C. The boss man inherited a Winchester 74 in .22 Short with a Maxim adapter. Apparently his uncle used it to kill squirrels in the park across the street from me. That would put a lot of people in a tizzie today!

[fordwannabe]

Don't get me wrong I have a 10/22 and a ruger markII threaded ,but wouldn't a supressed Henry be the cats pajamas.

[awp101]

Don't know a whole lot about them, but if you are an Incorporated Business you may be able to avoid the $200 Tax problems and stuff by buying it as a part of the corporation.

You still pay $200 for the "tax stamp" but you don't have to get a CLEO sign off.

[Nath]

All the rage over here,heavy horrid things! The only thing they are good for is saving the users hearing and they sure don't work like they do in the films!

The 22 ones do foul up some, center fires eventually suffer from hot gas damage usually, thats all I know.

Sorry for the negativity but they are not for me.

You have fun though

N.

[gamekeeper]

It often amuses me that in the UK we are massively restricted with gun ownership compared to the US, yet can get suppressors (or moderators as they are generally known here) with ease. Go figure.

historically, it's not that difficult to explain.
arms have always been regulated in your nation, starting as a privilege of the peerage, and gradually moving down the social hierarchy - no offense - but for the common people, a controlled and regulated device stored and distributed by the local constabulary.

Not quite so, there were less "Gun Laws" in Britain than in the USA until the 1920s when fearing a Bolshevik type revolution the British government started bringing in laws restricting firearms.

Although game shooting has always been for the privileged, revolvers (Belgium made) were cheap and owned by anyone who required protection.

My mother had a nickel plated revolver and my first wife's grandmother shot dead a robber with her Derringer.

[Nath]

Top woman GK

N.

[AJMD429]

Of the things you want to shoot through them, you'll need to keep things sub sonic ( below aprox 1,000 FPS) for it to be most effective.

Yeah, if I can sell the Strikers for a decent price, I'd like to look at getting a larger-bore one say for .45-70; I'd think if you were willing to stick with 900 FPS, using a 'modern' gun like an Encore rifle which can supposedly stand higher pressures than a Marlin, you could propel VERY heavy bullets using a .45-70 case (I'd just have to figure out what powder to use). They would 'drop' alot with the slow velocity, but sure wouldn't stop for much...

[Bogie35]

...My mother had a nickel plated revolver and my first wife's grandmother shot dead a robber with her Derringer.

Good women indeed!

bogie

[Paladin]

> Since .22 LR is 'dirtier' than .223, I assume I want one that can be disassembled to clean it, right...?
They come in both formats but the one you can disassemble is believed to be better as the 22lr is as you say dirtier. I have two both are the welded type one from AWC and one Gemtech.

> Since .223 is 'blastier' than .22 LR, I assume I want one that is very sturdy and big enough to stifle .223, right...? The weight and size of the .223 can is the problem. The .22 LR can is normally about 1/3 the size of the .223.

> Since I don't really want one for hiding under my James Bond assassin jacket, I assume I don't need an especially 'compact' one, right...?
You may not need the smallest one but being able to see the sight of the weapon you want to use it on helps.

> Any Class III dealers you know personally who are good to deal with...?
It needs to be someone in your state after you purchase it from any manufacture if the dealer in your state does not have one you want in stock.

> I'd like to deal with someone reasonable, for I would like to do a trade using one or both of my Striker shotguns, and would hope to get some cash back, or perhaps some other 'gun' related item or service (...a suppressor for a .444 Marlin would be rather interesting...)
AWC make a Thundertrap for the 45-70 which would work. The swap may be possible just have to be worked out with your dealer. I almost had one put on a guide gun but with the one I had mounted on a Marlin336 in 35 Rem decide it would do without another ATF Form 4.

[Ysabel Kid]

My mother had a nickel plated revolver and my first wife's grandmother shot dead a robber with her Derringer.

I knew gamekeeper jr came from good stock... on at least one side of the family!

[Old Ironsights]

Of the things you want to shoot through them, you'll need to keep things sub sonic ( below aprox 1,000 FPS) for it to be most effective.

Yeah, if I can sell the Strikers for a decent price, I'd like to look at getting a larger-bore one say for .45-70; I'd think if you were willing to stick with 900 FPS, using a 'modern' gun like an Encore rifle which can supposedly stand higher pressures than a Marlin, you could propel VERY heavy bullets using a .45-70 case (I'd just have to figure out what powder to use). They would 'drop' alot with the slow velocity, but sure wouldn't stop for much...

I've always thought getting a threaded barrel and a can for a .40 Glock would be about perfect, especially since the 180gr .40s are all subsonic anyway...

[Sixgun]

Doc,
If you do decide, buy quality. Like scopes, you usually get what you pay for. Another thing, shooting anything above the speed of sound will create the "sonic boom" or crack and is not really silenced. In order to get the most "bang for the buck", get one that you can attach to several rifles--even autoloading pistols---preferably .22 caliber.

I get to play with these from time to time and a silenced HK full auto in 9mm is a blast. You just hear the mechanics of the gun.

You will want to deal with a class 3 in your area--or the closest you can get--it has to be in your state. Not all states allow these toys. Its $200 a gun/silencer/short barrel and the first time usually takes 2-3 months---------Sixgun