OT- "Go shoot these animals for me"

[86er]

A gentleman called to ask about hunting for some super-exotics. He explained he has a personal museum of sorts with hundreds of life sized mounts. He wanted a Beisa Oryx, Trans Caspian Urial and Markor. I told him I could arrange all of these but they were in separate high fenced ranches ranging from 1200 acres to 3500 acres. The price was in the high $40,000 range. He said he'd call back later. A few hours later he called back and asked for some more details. He told me he hunts all over the world and is not a real big fan of hunting species outside their natural habitat. He also commented that he didn't really care for south Texas. Again, he promised to think it over and call back. A few hours later he called again. He said he really wanted these species for his museum collection but didn't want to hunt them. He asked if he could send a check for the animals and shipping and said when my check clears, "go shoot these animals for me" and send me the life sized capes. I hesitated and told him I guess I could shoot them for him. I asked if he wanted them shot with anything particular and he said "I'd like to see one of them shot with a 308 since that's my favorite" I promised to oblige him. Hey it's a hard job but someones gotta do it!

[deerwhacker444]

...I can't believe it.!

I just don't know what to say to that one, I'm at a loss for words..!

[iceman]

I know what to say. Need any help?

[Bigahh]

I know what to say. Need any help?

+1, and as luck would have it, I just happen to have a .308 or three!

[AJMD429]

Perhaps you could handle it as sort of a 'sponsored hunt' for someone who can't afford it - i.e. he's paid the bill for some well-deserving individual to have a hunt of a lifetime. WishMakers or something like that.

[86er]

I thought of giving away a hunt or allowing a helper but I am torn. These are very hard to get in spite of the high fence. With the exception of the Urial, the other two won't come to a feeder or food plot. Markhors are mostly nocturnal. If an animal is wounded, it is a steep price for me to pay. If a cape is ruined it is also costly to me. I thought about darting them and taking them to my place to make it more controlled for someone else to be the shooter, but the risk of overdosing them or stressing them in transportation outweighs any benefit. I figure it will take 3 or 4 days each to get them at best. It could be longer. I guess I have to suck it up and do the work.

[FWiedner]

Now see, this would be the perfect application for the Internet-accessible remote hunting blind that folks were so upset about a few years back.

This yo-yo could just sit at home and wait for the dern things to walk by the blind his own self. All he'd have to do is call you to pick up the carcass.

[dr walker]

Way to go Joe. Seems like you must be doing things right to get opportunities like this. I look forward to the hunt posts and pictures.

[Buck Elliott]

Not in a million years!!!!!!!!!

[kimwcook]

For your sake, Joe, I hope everythings good, but, something smells funny. Keep us informed.

[horsesoldier03]

Hope no one takes this wrong, but its is amazing to me how some rich folks spend their money. If he is willing to spend 40K on 3 species just think how much he has in his museum. My neighbor is a taxidermist. He has people that frequently go to Africa and spend obscene amounts only to come home and pay another obscene amount in taxidermy fees. I NEED A NEW JOB or to seriously think about applying myself better LOL.

Just glad we can say the sky is the limit in the good ole US of A.

Too bad I sold my .308 Joe or I would offer you some help. HAVE FUN!

[madman4570]

Joe,

Somthing just sounds very fishy about this??????
Anyway,I know you are a true professional and really dont need to be told this but just make sure every single base you have covered legally on this(You hunting it/killing it/etc.)

Could there be any possible way in any manner there could be legal issues with him not even showing up,thus making this say an illegal take of exotic game. It just seems strange for those reasons given to you.


usually somthing to good to be true,usually isnt so good. Good luck!

[crs]

Cool!
I have a .308 and if I was not so busy, I would volunteer to go help you.
Good luck with it.

PS A couple of those critters look tough, so use the right bullets.

[mescalero1]

Money is good,
morality stinks,
do it,
let him deal with his concience.

[Paladin]

How does that go, “The object of life is to find something you enjoying doing and someone to pay you to do it”?
I think you have done a great job of it.

[alnitak]

Unbelieveable!! Terrific!!

Just make sure you get the money up front...

[Booger Bill]

Some people just have too much money!

[CEMENTHEAD]

Not in a million years!!!!!!!!!

I'm with Buck on this one..................I'm nobody's "Do boy"

Thanks, Tom

[cas]

No different than going out in the barn yard and slaughtering a hog. (Only the pay is better) So why not?

[horsesoldier03]

I totally agree CAS! Pay me to go shoot something, I wont be put off by it at all.

Nothing that odd about this type of venture at all. My taxidermist neighbor has museums and othe organizations that send him on hunts and have him taxidermy the animal for them frequently. There really are people out there like 86er that have the ULTIMATE JOB!
Its tough, but someone has to do it!

[Rusty]

Well it's a dirty job but someone has to do it. If you don't do it some one else will.

I'd just make sure the check clears first.

[El Chivo]

he probably also has a trophy wife he doesn't have time for...

[Leverdude]

Personally I dont see any issue from Joe's end. The customer makes me wonder but if the check is good whats it matter.

[jlchucker]

Not in a million years!!!!!!!!!

I'm with Buck on this one..................I'm nobody's "Do boy"

Thanks, Tom

Me either, Buck and Cementhead! Let this poor little rich boy do his own killing. I for one think something else is going on here--maybe an anti-hunting photo-op?

[76/444]

This will be my first post to the OP, since I joined here.

disclaimer,...(if memory serves me correctly)

With that said,...my reason is, I really have a problem with "trophy" hunting, which is why I TRY and stay away from your posts.

(unless on a different topic)

But, this one just goes beyond the pale, guy. Not only is it reprehensible to me that someone kills for trophies,...

(to each their own, just not my bag)

... but, the thought that a trophy hunter would pay someone else to do the shooting for him,... is ONLY shadowed by the pathetic act of someone actually doing it for the money.





P.S.,...This is NOT like killing a pig for someone to feed his family!

[claybob86]

Guess he couldn't find 'em on ebay or Craigslist, huh?

[mikld]

Perhaps you could auction off the hunt and give the money to your favorite charity. Everyone is happy; you booked the hunt, an auction winner gets the hunt, original client gets the carcases, and charity gets some cash. Or perhaps Little Huntress can do the honor?

[piller]

I fall into the group that thinks something is odd. +1 on saying that you need to make sure the check clears and that everything is legal on your end. You might want to check him out thoroughly before any other step is taken.

[madman4570]

Just more of my thoughts on this Big Hunt Dilema---


The more I read that-------------That is indeed I think a setup ?

Let's see-----------------You have this guy!
He hunts "all over the world"(has hundreds of mounted species of animals)but,not one from some type of Hunting Ranch? Heck,anymore like in Africa aren't they all kinda like that(managed)its just the size of the property that's managed.
1000/10,000/100,000/acres or miles???????????
To be fair to Joe,that $40,000 I bet after all is said and done, he is lucky to make maybe a fraction of that $40,000 after his cut??????????
That I dont know for sure but it is my guess.
Ok, so---back to the dilema,The guy just don't like to take an animal that is not from its native existing land??????
Isn't it funny this guy just seems to DISLIKE the land that Joe LOVES and PRIDES????????????????
The guy wants Joe to Shoot it/Skin it/Mail it???????? because this hunt dont float his boat??????????
Seems to me like everytime he would look over towards them he would just go---Hah--There a joke!
Nope,I think its a setup! Maybe from Joe/himself to get a rise from people on here to see what the members think??????? Joe,This is mentioned in all of respect but you have done things in the past on here to get a response and see what the guys think! If not this time---no cry/no foul
Because knowing already how some members feel about fenced hunts then mentioning the actual dollar pay out???? Know its got to crank some on here.

I "think" its probably some Animal Rights Org. thing we will be reading about shortly, or again maybe just Joe cranking us a little
Will tell you what though----------If that guy told me he did not like my homeland,"unless I was so hardup"
no,second thought,nope----------Go get your animals somewhere else,not here because of hating Southern Texas so much.
go try and find them somewhere else.
Someone with that money--------Heck, make his own Game Ranch/Zoo/whatever and let them live.
That is just what I think it might be!

[RKrodle]

Only in the last several years has this not been common practice. How do you think museums get the animals they have? At the turn of the century it was common for museums to pay hunters to supply them with specimens of animals native to other countries, and to this country, by sponsoring the hunt. How do you think the reloading manuals get those pics of the animals killed with their bullets? How about the articles in hunting magazines? You can bet Craig Boddington and others don't pay for these hunts out of their own pockets. If you have ever been on a guided hunt you can be pretty sure that the outfitter has given away a hunt before in exchange for advertisement. And you can bet Joe will check this guy out before he seals the deal and that the meat will not go to waste. I say go for it.

[Modoc ED]

Perhaps you could handle it as sort of a 'sponsored hunt' for someone who can't afford it - i.e. he's paid the bill for some well-deserving individual to have a hunt of a lifetime. WishMakers or something like that.

"Sponsored hunt"??? Ya gotta be kidding. There's no hunt to this at all. They're behind a fence. Ya just gotta open the gate, walk around and corner them. No skill involved.

86er said:

These are very hard to get in spite of the high fence.

Whatever you say Bwana.

I imagine you don't need a hunting license to hunt a private ranch behind a fence for non-domestic (to the U.S.) animals in Texas as it would be illegal (at least in most places) to use your license to kill an animal for someone else.

[Hobie]

There are high fences and high fences. It is one thing to hunt a high fenced 100 acre wood and another to hunt 4½+ square miles high fenced or not.

Many of those restaurants that sell venison have it harvested in the barnyard with a rifle. I doubt the restaurateur shoots them.

[vancelw]

Ah, Joe...somedays it just doesn't pay to hit "send."

If the previous 14 offers of help aren't enough, I have a .308 as well that shoots "minute of critter" at 300 meters....

[Modoc ED]

There are high fences and high fences. It is one thing to hunt a high fenced 100 acre wood and another to hunt 4½+ square miles high fenced or not.

Many of those restaurants that sell venison have it harvested in the barnyard with a rifle. I doubt the restaurateur shoots them.

Pretty much right on all counts Hobie but the manager of a high fenced ranch regardless of size can pretty much tell where animals can be found on a given day and time so as to cut down on hunt time.

My .02¢ -- Much easier to hunt behind a fence than in the wild (so-to-speak).

[Old Time Hunter]

Not in a million years!!!!!!!!!

I'm with Buck on this one..................I'm nobody's "Do boy"

Thanks, Tom

Unless you are living in a cardboard box, everybody is somebody's "Do boy". Whether it is paying taxes or working for the "man", we all "Do" the bidding, even when we are retired.

Morally I find it wrong, but from 86'er's opportunity, I am jealous...

[76/444]

MadMan,... thanks for writing what I was thinking,... but figured with what I did write, would be a bit much. Personally,... the mention of the money is what made me think this is a setup by the OP.

Either way, it stinks in my book!

MadMan wrote;..."Nope,I think its a setup! Maybe from Joe/himself to get a rise from people on here to see what the members think??????? Joe,This is mentioned in all of respect but you have done things in the past on here to get a response and see what the guys think! If not this time---no cry/no foul
Because knowing already how some members feel about fenced hunts then mentioning the actual dollar pay out???? Know its got to crank some on here."

[n2t]

The only part of this I find dissagreeable is that I can't eat any of it.

[Ysabel Kid]

Talk about being in the right place at the right time!

[Buck Elliott]

the "Go-fer" ascpect of this deal stinks.

to my mind it is an ethical morass. "Hunting" is not done that way, na matter how much the client is willing to pay.

If it were a legitimate Museum, looking to expand its exhibits, that might be a different story, but I would imagine that even in such a case, the powers that be would send someone to collect the animals, rather than slip the outfitter a few thou to do it quietly
on the sly

I spent 20 + years as a licensed big game guide in Wyoming, and this deal goes against every legal and ethical consideration in my book

[76/444]

Hey buck, I am with ya,...

"to my mind it is an ethical morass. "Hunting" is not done that way, na matter how much the client is willing to pay."

But, you know the old saying,.... "Most folks have a price"!

[n2t]

I say make sure it's legal (non-native species on private land...sounds legal), and make sure the guy is legit. Those are my only concerns, if that checks out, I wouldn't lose a bit of sleep on if it's ethical or not. If the animal is expected to die quickly after being shot, it's ethical in my book.

[Buck Elliott]

Sort of reminds me of tales of "women of negotiable virtue..."

[shooter]

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, either way, the animals get taken. As long as they are hunted ethically, which I'm sure is not an issue with Joe, there's no problem with the actual taking of the animal. What I take issue with is the other person's morality of basically hiring a hit man to do his job for him. But then again that's what we do every time we purchase meat from the grocery store. We have paid someone to kill and process that animal for us. The difference here is that these animals aren't for sustinence, they are purely for trophies. I don't know what is planned for the meat. I don't like to kill anything I'm not planning on eating unless it is a pest issue.

As far as Joe getting paid and doing the hunting, I see no problem on his end. If I were the other guy, however, I could not pay someone else to shoot the animals for me. To me it shows a lack of respect for the sport and for the animals. I'm sure Joe will hunt ethically, and I know he has the utmost respect for the animals he takes, and does not take the act lightly at all. If one has a moral objection to this process, that is their right. If others don't, that is their right also. That's one of the beauties of living in a "relatively" free society.

[O.S.O.K.]

1) Great to hear of the excellent "catch" Joe!
2) This is Joe's business - even though the circumstances are strange, he is in the business of hooking hunters up with the game that they want to bag.
3) Folks with "real money" often turn to collecting things of interest - just like us ordinary schmoes that have a gun collection (you know, some people think WE'RE weird!). Some collect classic automobiles, etc. This man has chosen taxidermy representations. Not what I would choose to do with my money, but hey, its a free country and if this makes the man happy, more power to him.


Good luck with your hunts Joe!

PS - I have a .308 and some 30-06's (that make a wound just like a .308 ) - so let me know if you would like back up hunter

[Leverdude]

The way I see it these are non game animals bought & paid for private property & the usual rules of ethics or fair chase simply don't apply. If a client wants to do it like a hunter thats fine, if they dont & the owner of the animals & he come to an agreement thats fine too. Not much different than buying a steak or a side of beef, owned animals are livestock. Ethics are largely personal things anyway, as they should be. If it bugs you dont do it.
From an ethical standpoint, if I had to make a judgement I'd say the more of these non native animals that get killed the better since its unethical to force native species to compete for food. But I dont have to make a judgement.

[Terry Murbach]

OH BOY, I HAVE NOT READ ALL THE POSTS HERE ON THIS BUT THIS SEEMS TO BE A MORASS OF UNETHICAL ACTIONS. THERE IS LITTERALLY NOTHING ABOUT IT THAT IS ABOVE BOARD AND ETHICAL !!! THE GUY PROPOSING THIS IS AN EGOMANIAC OF THE FIRST WATER WHO THINKS HUNTING IS A NUMBERS GAME AND HE'LL WIN IF HE HAS THE MOST DEAD BODIES TO SHOW OFF. YOU CAN BET YOUR LAST BUCK WHEN HE HAS ALL THOSE NEW DEAD BODIES HE WILL BRAG UPON THEM LIKE HE WAS INDEED THE MIGHTY HUNTER WHO BROUGHT THEM TO BAG.
HE DOES NOT EVEN CARE HOW HE DOES IT !!!!! HERE IS A PILE OF MONEY, GO KILL EVERYTHING AND USE A 308WIN SO I CAN BRAG ABOUT HOW GOOD MY RIFLE CALIBER IS. THIS A-HOLE COULD NOT MAKE ME DO THIS FOR A FEE OF A MILLION DOLLARS PER ANIMAL UNDER ANY CONDITIONS. DO REMEMBER '86'er THAT WHEN YOU DO THE UGLY DEED FOR HIM YOU HAVE LOWERED YOURSELF TO HIS LEVEL AND THAT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE AMONG WHALESHIQ IN THE MARIANAS TRENCH. I WOULD HOPE YOU ARE WELL ABOVE THE TEMPTATION OF HIS DIRTY MONEY ALTHOUGH I DO UNDERSTAND "THE TEMPTATION".
MANY YEARS AGO I WORKED WITH A HUNTING SLOB LIKE THIS GUY WHO CONSISTENTLY BRAGGED ABOUT HOW MANY DEER HE'D TAKEN WITH A BOW. HE WOULD FILL TAGS FOR EVERYONE HE COULD TALK INTO BUYING ONE. THEN OFF TO THE WILDS OF MICHIGAN TO DO THE DIRTY DEEDS. ALL WENT WELL UNTIL SOMEONE CALLED THE FEDS AND REPORTED HIM, AS ALL OF IT WAS A VIOLATION OF THE LACY ACT. I GOT DRAGGED IN BECAUSE I HAD BOUGHT MY TAGS AT THE SAME STORE AND WORKED WITH HIM. MY TAGS WERE STILL UNFILLED !!!! HE GOT FIVE YEARS IN THE FEDERAL GRAYBAR HOTEL AND RESORT [ SUSPENDED.] , PLUS A FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE HE WHINED ABOUT TILL THEY DROPPED IT AFTER A COUPLE YEARS OF 100 DOLLAR A MONTH PAYMENTS.
I HATE HATE HATE HUNTING SLOBS AND BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE AN OPEN SEASON ON THEM YEAR AROUND.

[O.S.O.K.]

Terry, while I agree with your sentiments given your ASSUMPTIONS, they are just that.

It does look and sound like you may very well be right about this guy's intentions but then again, you may be wrong - but the .308 thing is rather damning....

I didn't even think about this being the case - I would never lie about something like this. That's in the same vein as the poor souls who lie about being Medal of Honor winners - really sad and vile.

[claybob86]

I personally am not into the trophy thing, but seems like there's not any real difference between say, raising mink for their fur and raising one of those bigger critters for their head and horns. In their situation, they are livestock and would not exist where they are if those uses were not intended for them.

[Buck Elliott]

We hire people to kill our beef, chicken and pork for us, because we don't have the time and resources to do it ourselve, but we certainly don't brag that it was our doing, or mount their heads on the wall, for one and all to admire.

There is a vast ethical difference between the two systems, and I feel sorry for anyone who cannot see, it.

This old boy wants someone to "hunt" for his own self aggrandizement. ........ That makes him a first-class egotistical phony, in my book!

[76/444]

Awww Jeeeeeeez ,...TERRY,.... did you have to say a "MILLION"!!!



















just kidding, just kidding,...