Can you kill without hitting?

[getitdone1]

Have any of you experienced killing some small game animal or bird without actually hitting it? I think this happens but searching for real experiences from some of you.

I believe a fast moving bullet that comes close to a small birds head, for instance, can somehow kill it. Perhaps it's concussion from sound waves????

Don McCullough

[awp101]

I have heard squirrel hunters talk about "barking" a squirrel. As I understand it, they hit the limb right under where the squirrel is and either the concussion or fall kills it. Not sure which it is.

I have read accounts from the American Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars of men being killed when solid shot from a cannon passed close by. It was never disclosed WHY but I suspect it was an atmospheric overpressure as the ball passed. Or I could be all wet on that theory...

[Rusty]

Old timers used to "bark" squirrels off tree limbs by shooting close to the heads. The idea is to put the round between their head and the tree bark of the limb they are sitting on.

The term was used as in"I barked that squirrel off that limb at 40 paces."

[AJMD429]

I've knocked up (soil or bark) debris from nearby impact that did small critters in, but never had the impression that a 'sonic boom' effect was the cause. You never know, though...

[FWiedner]

Kind of, but not really.

The closest thing I've experienced to what you describe happened a couple of years ago when I shot a feral hog.

The bullet passed through the fatty flesh just below the ridge of the neck a few inches behind the animal's skull. It was a clean .35 caliber hole, did not hit the spine, the skull, or any vital organ. The wound didn't even bleed.

The pig just dropped dead in it's tracks.

Somehow, getting whacked with that flesh wound on the neck just turned off the power.

[Boreman]

I killed a squirrel with a 22 Hornet without the bullet actually hitting the animal.It was a long shot at the squirrel sitting on a rock. My shot was low and hit the rock. The resulting disintergration of the bullet and rock was apparently close enough to kill the squirrel.The schrappnal marks on the animal were sufficient to kill it. I am sure a bullet hit would have destroyed the animal.

[JerryB]

At one time I thought it was surely possible. In 1958 at Fort Ord firing 57mm and 75 mm recoiless rifles, as the loader I thought for sure I had died, when we fired the 75 I knew I was dead. Found out later I wasn't though.

[cowboykell]

My mother-in-law can give a small critter a mean look and she can ugly them to death.

[Nath]

I run a 224 from a Hornet past the back of a fox's head once many years ago. It just cut the skin as if a knife was used but he was dead allright.

Then there was the magpie that I bounced a 22 of the top of it's head and knocked it out!
I thought it was dead and just left it there in the corner of a field but when I came back a short time after it had woke up and gone!

Nath.

[adirondakjack]

As a kid, I shot a limb under a bird, caused a splinter to impale it. DRT with an almost invisible wound.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon When I was a kid I took a shot at a fish once with my .22 and when the water calmed the fish was on the bottom just lying there. I jumped in, retrieved the fish & there was not a mark on it. Became part of supper.

[fatoldfool]

I have tried barking a squirrel, never worked for me. I have hit just under their chin, and by the time I would get to them they would be running too fast to hit them again with a rifle. Yep, I have read about it in many books, heard several guys say the did it. Never had anyone able to do it with me watching. I really kinda wonder if it isn't a tale, kinda like the Kentucky rifles that could put 5 balls in the same hole at 100 yards. And I can swear that a squirrel shot off a limb with a 500 gr. .45-70 looked kinda like an empty hide. He jumped just as the shot broke and it ended up being a Texas heart shot.

[Terry Murbach]

MANY YEARS AGO I BARKED A NICE BIG FAT FOX SQUIRREL OFF A TOP LIMB IN A HUGE OAK TREE WITH A 44MAGNUM SIXGUN AND A KEITH 429421 250gr SWC LOADED IN A 44SPL CARTRIDGE RUNNING ABOUT 950FPS. THE BULLET IMPACT WAS A BIT UNDER HIM ON THE LIMB AND IT LIFTED HIM UP AND OUT OF THE TREE AND HE ENDED UP LANDING TEN FEET OR SO BEHIND ME, DEADER THAN CANNED HAM. HIS BELLY WAS SLICED OPEN AS CLEAN AS IF A STRAIGHT RAZOR HAD CUT HIM OPEN, AND THERE WAS VERY LITTLE BLOOD.
ANOTHER TIME I GOT A SHOT AT TWO CROWS ABOUT 225 YARDS FROM ME. I PUT A HORNADY 50grSX FROM THE 222REM IN THE CLOSEST ONE BLOWING HIM TO KINGDOM COME AND THE ONE BEHIND HIM AND OFF TO THE RIGHT TEN FEET OR SO TIPPED OVER DEAD AS CANNED TUNA !!! THERE WAS NOT A MARK ON HIM, NOT A RUFFLED FEATHER, NOT A DROP OF BLOOD. MY PAL ROLAND SCHWYN AND I LOOKED AT EACH OTHER IN UTTER ASTONISHMENT, THEN WALKED OUT TO TAKE A LOOK-SEE. THAT SECOND CROW LOOKED FOR ALL THE WORLD LIKE HE WAS LAYING THERE TAKING A NAP. I STILL HAVE NO CLUE WHAT KILLED HIM WITHOUT LEAVING A MARK. MAYBE HE DIED OF A HEART ATTACK HUH ???!!!

[AJMD429]

My mother-in-law can give a small critter a mean look and she can ugly them to death.

[Ben_Rumson]

I had a brand new Ludwig Lowe 95 Mauser and a case of 1500 cartouchos de 7mm that I had been plinking with a few weeks.. a friend was over and I thought I'd show him how good it shot, so I said I'd plant one of them 7mms under a blue wing teal down below sitting out on a pond... If I kill game, then my rule is I eat it, not wanting to walk down there and out in the pond to retrieve 1 little teal, I said I'd shoot under it....that bird went straight up on a column of water flapping his wings looking funnier then all get out...but fell back dead.. No holes in it, but guts oozing out the rear...Made soup..

[model55]

Had a ground squirrel run into the sidewall of my tire when I was driving by not a mark on it, no blood just dead.Went to look because I saw it in the mirror but felt no impact.Thought he had missed me.

[2571]

I run a 224 from a Hornet past the back of a fox's head once many years ago. It just cut the skin as if a knife was used but he was dead allright.

Then there was the magpie that I bounced a 22 of the top of it's head and knocked it out!
I thought it was dead and just left it there in the corner of a field but when I came back a short time after it had woke up and gone!

Nath.

Bet it had a two-day migraine.

[m.wun]

Mythbusters did a show where they shot a 50 BMG within a inch of a bottle and it
didnt do a thing to it.Unless it touched the bottle it didnt even move the thing.

[Griff]

Mythbusters did a show where they shot a 50 BMG within a inch of a bottle and it didnt do a thing to it.Unless it touched the bottle it didnt even move the thing.

Well, even it I hadn't read Terry's post, that right there woulda chinched the deal for me... of course it's possible... Mythbusters sez it can't be!!!

And Cowboykell,
Ain't you heard, daughters always grow up to look like their mothers! I found me a good lookin' mother-in-law!

[vancelw]

I've "barked" squirrels before, mostly on accident. When they hit the ground, the dog dispatched them and brought them to me.

I haven't hunted squirrels with a dog since my grandpa died in 86. He was the only one who ever kept a squirrel dog around, and it was always part collie for some reason.

[GonnePhishin]

Many, many years ago, I became so incensed at some chipmonks that were tearing up my shrub beds, I decided to chase one around my house with a baseball bat with the intention of clobbberng him. I don't know how I managed, but always kept within 6 feet or so behind him. As I turned another corner around the house, I saw the little darling laying in front of me as dead as a doornail. It seems he had a coronary, and I never got to wack him with the bat

[Doc Hudson]

I have heard squirrel hunters talk about "barking" a squirrel. As I understand it, they hit the limb right under where the squirrel is and either the concussion or fall kills it. Not sure which it is.

I have read accounts from the American Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars of men being killed when solid shot from a cannon passed close by. It was never disclosed WHY but I suspect it was an atmospheric overpressure as the ball passed. Or I could be all wet on that theory...

I was thinking about the same stuff. i believe I also erad of instances of it happening during the War Between the States as well.

[Doc Hudson]

My mother-in-law can give a small critter a mean look and she can ugly them to death.

is that you Horace?

it sounds lust like Leah.

[Doc Hudson]

Mythbusters did a show where they shot a 50 BMG within a inch of a bottle and it
didnt do a thing to it.Unless it touched the bottle it didnt even move the thing.

i enjoy Mythbusters. Those old boys are downright inventive in their hardware and gizmos.

But I've seen them disprove some things I've seen happen or have done myself.

If they say it can't be done, it just means they couldn't do it. Not that it is truly impossible.

[20cows]

My college room mate hit the mud just under a bullfrog with a 45-70. Yeah, that did it.

30 feet straight up (and down) could have been a factor, too.

[bogus bill]

When I was a guard at lockheed in the 70s we had a disgruntled ex employee come in and shoot and kill three people, another guy witnessed it and died of a heart attack, so yup, you can!

[piller]

Perhaps it is the concussion of the shock waves. In WWII, my Uncle who was with the 2nd Armored Division, said that when they were near an ocean, if they had a break in the fighting, they would find a boat and go out in the ocean and drop a concussion grenade in the water. The fish made a welcome addition of fresh meat to the c-rations they had. He said this didn't happen often as you made yourself a target when you did it.

[oic0]

Shock waves can kill pretty well. There are even a few species of shrimp in the ocean who's method of hunting involves a really powerful claw that does nothing but snap and make a shock wave to kill fish. Then of course as you guys know a good impact causes brain damage from the sudden spike in blood pressure exploding blood vessels.

Rodents also seem prone to heart attacks too. I remember in one of my psychology classes the teacher told us about some study done on rats where they were thrown into a tank with turbulent water to see how long could last. If I remember right it was for days. The same experiment was done with their whiskers cut off and they would quickly die of a heart attack.

Personally? I have shot the water under some birds with a 12 gauge. The blast usually does them in. Only other strange shot was a pellet rifle to a squirrel skull. It was a .22 caliber wadcutter at probably 600 fps or so. Sounded like a hammer hitting concrete and he fell off the tree like he was struck by lightening. No physical damage.

[Nath]

"The same experiment was done with their whiskers cut off and they would quickly die of a heart attack."

Now there is a good excuse to tell the Mrs why I ain't shaving

Thanks for that

Nath.

[KCSO]

I think the closest you will come to shock wave killing will be Baden Powell's report of Fredrick Burnham killing ducks with a 303 British. He would shoot at the water under the duck and the hydraulic pressure would supposedly kill the duck. This was also mentioned in "Scouting on Two Continents".

As to barking a squirrel if you hit under the chest the bark will knock them off the limb and they usually wake up just about the time you grab them. They do NOT wake up happy! If you hit under the head about a third of the time they will fall to the ground stunned or with bark and limb impaled. The rest of the time they run off chattering. I have done this with 40-50 caliber muzzleloader to see if it was true and mostly it's not. As to sonic waves killing something if it were possible it would happen all the time shoting praire dogs, but all they do is duck and run.

[gamekeeper]

Good afternoon When I was a kid I took a shot at a fish once with my .22 and when the water calmed the fish was on the bottom just lying there. I jumped in, retrieved the fish & there was not a mark on it. Became part of supper.

I shot a Pike with a 20GA, I was directly above it, me being on a bridge, there was no sign of damage but the Pike was dead as a door nail.

[oic0]

As to sonic waves killing something if it were possible it would happen all the time shoting praire dogs, but all they do is duck and run.

That is a very good point. I have shot at an insane number of turtles in my time. Nothing other than a direct hit kills them. I'm sure I have poisoned the pond with lead by now and killed maybe a dozen turtles.

[Bruce Scott]

I have read accounts from the American Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars of men being killed when solid shot from a cannon passed close by. It was never disclosed WHY but I suspect it was an atmospheric overpressure as the ball passed. Or I could be all wet on that theory...

I was thinking about the same stuff. i believe I also erad of instances of it happening during the War Between the States as well.

My father's best mate during WWII died under shellfire in New Guinea without a mark on his body. His death was attributed to concussion.

Here's a short piece on batlefield blast injury:
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf ... t/12/3/169

[rimrock]

Many years ago, my friend and I were shooting rabbits on a county road with 20 ga. shotguns. We both swear one of us killed one one by concussion at about 10 ft with no pellet hits.

[geobru]

You can kill a mole with a shotgun without hitting them. If you can get over to it as the dirt is being pushed up, and shoot, you will kill the critter DRT.

[getitdone1]

You can kill a mole with a shotgun without hitting them. If you can get over to it as the dirt is being pushed up, and shoot, you will kill the critter DRT.

geobru. About how much dirt does that leave on shooter and gun?

Don McCullough

[Lobo]

Hi All,

When I was a younger man (ie better eye-sight) I was out with a buddy on his farm. We came upon a grouse sitting on the ground under a 'bob-wire' fence. My buddy says for me to shoot it, as I was carrying my Blackhawk with 45 Colt handloads. At about twelve feet, I tried a head shot and was pleased when it flopped over on its back. It lay still for a bit then began to flap its wings as to get up and fly off. My buddy stepped over and grabbed it by the head, wringing it's neck. There wasn't a mark on the bird. We couldn't decide if it were the 45 caliber slug whizzing by its head at 1300 fps or the muzzleblast from the shot that momentarily stunned it, but it made a good dinner.

[KCSO]

The shell shock of WWI and II is a different matter as the explosion sends out a shock wave that will burst ear drums and actually cause a concussion and brain damage. You are talking about a wave travelling at the speed of the explosive , say 14000 fps ??? for a high order explosive. That's why tree bursts were used so often in WWI.

When a bullet passes close to you, say within 2" or so you will hear the crack if you are far enoough from the shooter but you don't feel any breeze or pressure. Now I can't say there is none, but in the actual moment the shot goes by you don't notice it. It might be like recoil, you don't notice it when you are focused on hitting an animal.

[geobru]

You can kill a mole with a shotgun without hitting them. If you can get over to it as the dirt is being pushed up, and shoot, you will kill the critter DRT.

geobru. About how much dirt does that leave on shooter and gun?

Don McCullough

Don,
Zero to none when you shoot at an angle from a few feet away. I haven't tried standing over the hole and shooting straight down on it. That could have unintended consequences!!

[horsesoldier03]

Definately have barked a squirrel or two! Once I killed a opossum with a 30-06. The distance was at approx 20 ft. MISSED HIM COMPLETELY but the CONCUSION GOT HIM!!!!

[wavetrain75]

You could always try the "Men Who Stare At Goats" scenario.