A gnawing question for you caster's....

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76/444

A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

With the price of factory jacketed bullets being what they are,.... I have been thinking about casting my own, again. Haven't done this in many decades, and, then it was a hap-hazard backwoods Maine, do it with what ever I could find, kind of an operation!! :lol:

But, now that I have been educated over the years, by all the great sharing of info that goes on with the Internet,.... I just started wondering how I got stuff to work as good as I did, so long ago, and being as ignorant as I was ,... and to a degree, I still am! 8)

Ahhh, but I digress! :D

My question,... if I keep velocity down below 1,700 fps, and, weight up between 300grn. and 350grn.,...what, if any problems with breaking up do ya'll think I could encounter using soft lead to cast with?

thanks
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Old Savage »

I think the high end for soft lead is lower than that - KirkD is a good source on this.
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76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Thank you , sir. I will wait on him.

8)
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Leverluver »

"breaking up" at high speed has more with the lead being TOO hard, with antimony being the culprit. Now softer may expand or "splat" more than hard but it is less likely to fracture or break up than a high antimony bullet. I tested some commercial hard 420s at 1750 to 1850 fps in gelatin and they all wound up almost exactly the same weight of 255 grains with the noses sheared off leaving a cone shaped end. No dubt you would never know it on most game that they are used on as they still penetrated pretty well and would have exited 99% of the things that were shot with it.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Makes sense to me. Thanks for adding the penetration factor, that was my next concern.


p.s.

Another thought I had rolling around in my brain was,.... with the better ability to "bump up" into the lands and grooves, I thought the added gas sealing ability would be a big plus as well, with soft lead.

Any thoughts?
Last edited by 76/444 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Leverluver »

With rifles, you usually make them a thou or two oversize anyway, so they are more or less swaged down rather than being bumped up. "Bumping up" has more to do with revolver rounds that have to transition from forcing cone to barrel.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Well, I was thinking along the line that my Marlin (as stated at BearTooth) will run better with a .432 slug for best accuracy. I have not yet found a commercial mold on the net, that will drop a .432 . Any tips?
Last edited by 76/444 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Leverluver »

Can't help there. I have the same problem with a few 44 pistols. I wouldn't depend on "bumping" rescuing you from an undersize bullet, oversize bore situation. By the time the bullet is soft enough to bump, it will be too soft to drive to those speeds anyway. Plus, smokeless doesn't bump well. Black powder does it as it is a low grade explosive and gives the bullet a good kick in the rear at ignition. Any smokelss that gives the velocity you want won't have that initial pressure surge that will cause a bump. Better to get a custom mold for the correct size. Good luck
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Ya, I was afraid of that. BP wouldn't bother me , except for the smoke. I shot comp BP around 40 years ago in Maine, so, the rest of the hassles don't bother me. But the smoke in a hunting scenario does, with a lever.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by cowboykell »

Leverluver - thankyou, thankyou. Finally someone who understands that you can't "bump" cast bullets with smokeless powder. Your explaination is on the money. I have recovered bullets I shot into snowbanks using several different smokeless powders trying to find the right powder to " bump up" the bullet. Ain't gonna happen !!
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Whit Spurzon »

I shoot a fair amount of 170 grain 30 caliber gas checked bullets to 1850 fps cast from straight wheel weights without issue. They punch right through my plywood target board and bury themselves in my sand backstop without coming apart. There is some deformation but not as much as the jacketed bullets (traveling faster) I dig out. Weight retention is good which makes them easy to remelt and cast again and again... cheap shootin'

FWIW I can shoot a plain based bullet over pistol powder for less than I can buy CCI mini mags around here or less than $0.07 each, not counting my time for anything.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by fordwannabe »

77/444 I use pretty much straight wheel weights in a rifle(pure soft tends to strip lead at speed), but in a handgun I usually use a half and half with pure and ww. Try these and you may find what works for you. As far a s 432 sizing any number of places will make a sizer die for you( if you PM me I will make a recommendation) and for making the bullet larger they will be different sizes depending on alloy. You may also try beagling the mold this is using a small piece of aluminum foil between the front section of the mold halves. Just something to try. One more thought if you have a mold there is a great machinist who will open up a mold for you to just about any size you want(again PM me if interested). Tom
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Don McDowell »

Bullet fit, lube and good barrel, bullet fit,lube and good barrel. bullet fit, lube and good barrel.

If you have a bullet that properly fits the bore of your barrel (.001-002 over groove dia), and use a good to excellent lube, and do not have any excess leading or copper build up in the barrel you can drive "soft" bullets to 1700 or so.
You also need to make sure the case mouth is adequately flared, and the crimp applied to the case doesn't strip the bullet on its way out.
Dollars to donuts there's more perfectly good loads and bullets get cussed as being no good due to the application of about 3 times more crimp than is necessary.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Don McDowell wrote:Bullet fit, lube and good barrel, bullet fit,lube and good barrel. bullet fit, lube and good barrel.

If you have a bullet that properly fits the bore of your barrel (.001-002 over groove dia), and use a good to excellent lube, and do not have any excess leading or copper build up in the barrel you can drive "soft" bullets to 1700 or so.
You also need to make sure the case mouth is adequately flared, and the crimp applied to the case doesn't strip the bullet on its way out.
Dollars to donuts there's more perfectly good loads and bullets get cussed as being no good due to the application of about 3 times more crimp than is necessary.


Hmmmm, never considered the possible probs from soft lead and a heavy crimp, thanks for sharing!

8)
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Don McDowell »

Ubecaha :) Recovering paper patched and regular greasegroove cast bullets reveal lots of things that makes a feller say hmmmmmm :idea:
Don McDowell

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Don McDowell »

One other important thing oft overlooked is neck tension. You can find out real quick if you've got to much neck tension, just seat a bullet, and then pull it . If you're smearing grease grooves and lube by just those two steps, then the bullet doesn't stand a chance of not leaving lead when the powder kicks its pants....
This is where Lyman M dies play such a big role in accuracy they not only roundout the case mouths they pretty much assure you don't have to much neck tension deforming the bullet from the get go.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Lefty Dude »

76/444 wrote:Ya, I was afraid of that. BP wouldn't bother me , except for the smoke. I shot comp BP around 40 years ago in Maine, so, the rest of the hassles don't bother me. But the smoke in a hunting scenario does, with a lever.

For the questions you are seeking answers, I would suggest you consider purchasing the "Lyman Cast Bullet manual". This has a wealth of information, much more than we can pass along here.
I have been casting and shooting lead bullets in rifles for 40 years and learn something new most every day. :wink:
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by O.S.O.K. »

Is this for a .44 Mag? Or 444 Marlin?

Either way, I can recommend the Lee 310 grain wide flat nose mold. Lee molds are very low priced but mine drops good bullets.

You can use wheel weight alloy and just get some tin to add (2% by weight) to help fill the mold out.

Cast a bit hotter than usual at around 800-850 degrees.

I bought their sizer die too (the price of the mold and the sizer die set together is less than say RCBS molds all by themselves and they include the handles!) - this is .430" but I simply chucked a .44 cal bronze brush in a drill, wrapped a patch around it and applied some lapping compound and ran this through the die to open it up - worked like a charm. I only opened it to .431" which has worked great for me.

The mold dropped bullets measuring .432" with this alloy.

I use the Lee liquid Alox lube that comes with the sizer die set.

Oh, and this is a gas check mold, so you need to get some of those too. Hornady or Lyman both work good for me.

This alloy will be great as fast as you can push the bullet - at least to 1950-2000 fps (if its a 444) and will expand a bit on game - rivet basically.

Push it to near maximum pressure/velocity for best results.

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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Cliff »

Check out the Cast Boolit forum. They have done and continue off and on a run or Group Buy's of slightly oversized bullets of favorite bullets from the past. One was called "Ranch Dog" which was for a .44 bullet around 310 grains or a bit larger, supposed to run around .433 to .434 diameter cast from straight WW. I would imagine they have someone over there wanting to sell a mould or two. Those who have gotten them really like them for the Rossi family of rifles due to slightly larger bores and micro groove barrels. Haven't read anything bad about them. I believe the original maker isn't making them now but I am certain you will find good information. Good site. I think their address is http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com don't hold me to that address. I bought some other sizes and am very pleases with these moulds. Plus there are some who will recut or custom make a mould if there is intrest enough. Good Luck.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Lefty Dude wrote:
76/444 wrote:Ya, I was afraid of that. BP wouldn't bother me , except for the smoke. I shot comp BP around 40 years ago in Maine, so, the rest of the hassles don't bother me. But the smoke in a hunting scenario does, with a lever.

For the questions you are seeking answers, I would suggest you consider purchasing the "Lyman Cast Bullet manual". This has a wealth of information, much more than we can pass along here.
I have been casting and shooting lead bullets in rifles for 40 years and learn something new most every day. :wink:

Already on my list,... thanks.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Cliff wrote:Check out the Cast Boolit forum. They have done and continue off and on a run or Group Buy's of slightly oversized bullets of favorite bullets from the past. One was called "Ranch Dog" which was for a .44 bullet around 310 grains or a bit larger, supposed to run around .433 to .434 diameter cast from straight WW. I would imagine they have someone over there wanting to sell a mould or two. Those who have gotten them really like them for the Rossi family of rifles due to slightly larger bores and micro groove barrels. Haven't read anything bad about them. I believe the original maker isn't making them now but I am certain you will find good information. Good site. I think their address is http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com don't hold me to that address. I bought some other sizes and am very pleases with these moulds. Plus there are some who will recut or custom make a mould if there is intrest enough. Good Luck.

Thank you sir!
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Gun Smith »

Years ago the rule of thumb was around 1500-1600 fps for non-gas check bullets. It seems nowdays around here 1700 seems to be where to start keeping an eye on leading.
Casting is fun, cheap, compared to jacketed, and a way to more fully enjoy your hobby.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by O.S.O.K. »

Ranch Dog is a member here - he's the mold designer and marketer of the molds... ;)
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76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Gun Smith wrote:Years ago the rule of thumb was around 1500-1600 fps for non-gas check bullets. It seems nowdays around here 1700 seems to be where to start keeping an eye on leading.
Casting is fun, cheap, compared to jacketed, and a way to more fully enjoy your hobby.

That's what I wanted to know, thanks!
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by KirkD »

For most of my guns, I don't go above 1,500 fps and I use soft cast bullets made out of pure wheelweights with only a smidgen of tin added for a BHN of around 8-13, depending upon how many stick on wheel weights are in the mix. You will not break up a soft cast bullet. Like has already been said, that happens with hard cast and I hate hard cast bullets.

I've no experience with plain base soft cast bullets between 1,600 and 1,700 fps. At the higher velocities, say above 1,600 or 1,700 fps, I'd recommend a gas check. I use one for my 30-30 cast bullets and put them out the barrel at around 2,100 fps with no leading I've ever been able to detect. They don't break up either, at least not in the two Whitetail bucks I've taken with that bullet at 60 yards and 80 yards respectively.

I'd differ a bit from what cowboykell said about not being able to bump of cast bullets with smokeless. It can be done, I've done it plenty, and I've relied on it for a few of my old guns which had a groove diameter larger than what I could chamber. The secret is to use soft cast bullets and a load that gives you the same pressure curve as black powder. Black gives a nice sharp spike, which is why it can bump up soft cast bullets. Smokeless powders come in a variety of burn rates, some faster and some slower than FFFg and FFg. The crossover point is somewhere around Blue Dot/2400 FOR THE SAME BULLET WEIGHT AND VELOCITY. Slower powders will give you a lower pressure spike than BP and faster powders will give you a higher pressure spike than BP. That is why so many people get such nice accuracy using Unique. It gives a massive pressure spike (compared to BP) and will bump up that soft cast bullet nicely to fill the bore. I cannot speak for hard cast bullets, and I doubt you can bump them up, without excessive pressure spikes. If you buy your cast bullets, chance are almost certain that they are hardcast bullets. Hard cast bullets are particularly hard on revolvers, especially older ones. When that hard cast (BHN higher than 20, which is ridiculous) hits the forcing cone, if it is oversize at all it gives a massive impact. Over time, you will stretch your frame if you are shooting a 1st gen Colt SAA or an early S&W top break. Furthermore, hardcast bullets are pathetic at expanding, whereas the soft cast ones will sometimes expand if they hit fast enough. Now I cannot speak for tough dangerous game; maybe you want a harder cast bullet for those, I just have zero experience there, but 86er would know and if I recall, I think he does recommend harder cast (BHN ?) bullets for tough dangerous game, but don't count on my recollection of what he has written, get it straight from him.

Here are a few curves comparing fast and slow smokeless and BP. It is not all apples to apples so you'll have to extrapolate, but you get a good idea of the comparisons. By the way, you can see from the curves why Trailboss (a very fast powder around the speed of Bullseye) seems to do well as far as accuracy goes; it has a ridiculous pressure spike for the same bullet and velocity, much higher than BP. With a peak pressure like that, your soft cast lead bullet is going to flow like plastic into the bore, bumping up totally and completely. I stay away from Trail Boss in original BP guns.

You can also see why I like SR4759 as a good powder for BP cartridges. For the same bullet weight and velocity, it has a very close pressure curve to BP (in the curves below, it is a little flatter because of the lighter bullet. You stick a 500 grain bullet and the curves will be very close.) 2400 is even better with pretty much an identical pressure curve to BP (too bad they didn't include a plot for 2400 in that set).

Image
Image
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by cowboykell »

So tell me Kirk, how did you determine that the bullets had indeed bumped up to bore diameter? How did you recover bullets to measure them?
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Leverluver »

Just for the record, I agree with Kirk 100%. My original comment stated "any smokeless that would give the velocity you wanted" wouldn't bump.....meaning a slow smokeless. It will be tough to find a "slow" smokeless that is correct for the cartridge, that will bump a bullet, especially a hard bullet that is capable of going such speeds. I have seen (and recovered from gel) even copper bullets that bumped. All it takes is the right pressure over the right time period. Thing is that high speed, hard cast bullets is not a combination that is conducive to bumping. Kirk's formula of slow speed and fast(er) powder and soft bullets will.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by cowboykell »

Gel will cause a bullet to expand on impact. Ain't buying it.
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76/444

dupe

Post by 76/444 »

.
Last edited by 76/444 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

KirkD wrote:For most of my guns, I don't go above 1,500 fps and I use soft cast bullets made out of pure wheelweights with only a smidgen of tin added for a BHN of around 8-13, depending upon how many stick on wheel weights are in the mix. You will not break up a soft cast bullet. Like has already been said, that happens with hard cast and I hate hard cast bullets.

I've no experience with plain base soft cast bullets between 1,600 and 1,700 fps. At the higher velocities, say above 1,600 or 1,700 fps, I'd recommend a gas check. I use one for my 30-30 cast bullets and put them out the barrel at around 2,100 fps with no leading I've ever been able to detect. They don't break up either, at least not in the two Whitetail bucks I've taken with that bullet at 60 yards and 80 yards respectively.

I'd differ a bit from what cowboykell said about not being able to bump of cast bullets with smokeless. It can be done, I've done it plenty, and I've relied on it for a few of my old guns which had a groove diameter larger than what I could chamber. The secret is to use soft cast bullets and a load that gives you the same pressure curve as black powder. Black gives a nice sharp spike, which is why it can bump up soft cast bullets. Smokeless powders come in a variety of burn rates, some faster and some slower than FFFg and FFg. The crossover point is somewhere around Blue Dot/2400 FOR THE SAME BULLET WEIGHT AND VELOCITY. Slower powders will give you a lower pressure spike than BP and faster powders will give you a higher pressure spike than BP. That is why so many people get such nice accuracy using Unique. It gives a massive pressure spike (compared to BP) and will bump up that soft cast bullet nicely to fill the bore. I cannot speak for hard cast bullets, and I doubt you can bump them up, without excessive pressure spikes. If you buy your cast bullets, chance are almost certain that they are hardcast bullets. Hard cast bullets are particularly hard on revolvers, especially older ones. When that hard cast (BHN higher than 20, which is ridiculous) hits the forcing cone, if it is oversize at all it gives a massive impact. Over time, you will stretch your frame if you are shooting a 1st gen Colt SAA or an early S&W top break. Furthermore, hardcast bullets are pathetic at expanding, whereas the soft cast ones will sometimes expand if they hit fast enough. Now I cannot speak for tough dangerous game; maybe you want a harder cast bullet for those, I just have zero experience there, but 86er would know and if I recall, I think he does recommend harder cast (BHN ?) bullets for tough dangerous game, but don't count on my recollection of what he has written, get it straight from him.

Here are a few curves comparing fast and slow smokeless and BP. It is not all apples to apples so you'll have to extrapolate, but you get a good idea of the comparisons. By the way, you can see from the curves why Trailboss (a very fast powder around the speed of Bullseye) seems to do well as far as accuracy goes; it has a ridiculous pressure spike for the same bullet and velocity, much higher than BP. With a peak pressure like that, your soft cast lead bullet is going to flow like plastic into the bore, bumping up totally and completely. I stay away from Trail Boss in original BP guns.

You can also see why I like SR4759 as a good powder for BP cartridges. For the same bullet weight and velocity, it has a very close pressure curve to BP (in the curves below, it is a little flatter because of the lighter bullet. You stick a 500 grain bullet and the curves will be very close.) 2400 is even better with pretty much an identical pressure curve to BP (too bad they didn't include a plot for 2400 in that set).

Image
Image

I thank you for your time and effort, sir! All I really can say is,..... excellent,.... just excellent!!!

As one last question, would you have some thoughts on lighter lead/444 loads with Trail Boss, from 300 grn soft lead to 350 grn,... such as pro and cons for performance in the 1,500 fps to 1,700 fps range? And, do you think I would encounter an issue with not reaching the bottom of the bullet with a charge of TB at those speeds?
Last edited by 76/444 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Leverluver »

Gel won't make a mono bullet expand at the base on impact if at moderate velocities and even at some pretty high velocities. Just to let you know, I've done thousands of them. It used to be my business.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by jlchucker »

I heartily agree with those who've referred you to the Cast Boolet forum. Along with this one, it's one of my favorites. The guys who post there are always willing to offer help/suggestions, and their expertise ranges from those who are just thinking about casting, to those who have made it a science as precise as NASA moonshots. You'll enjoy that website if you are even thinking about casting. By the way, those of us who cast don't "gnaw". We bite the bullet instead.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by Thunder50 »

Yep, come visit us over at the Castboolit site. I am sure you will find someone who has plenty of experience shooting the 444 and will be glad to help you.

Wheelweights should be fine, with a good lube, and proper boolit fit (call them boolits VS bullets to differentiate between cast and jacketed)
You might even be able to go a bit softer than WW's using a very good lube. Each rifle is different.

Lee 310 is a good one, and someone might sell you a heavier boolit moulds , from one of the custom buy we have there (warning--it can cost you a bunch in custom moulds--think I have bought 15 over the last couple of years, some excellent designs there)

If you don't find anything to suit you tastes, you can go to Mountain moulds and design a custom mould, for what you want.
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by KirkD »

cowboykell wrote:So tell me Kirk, how did you determine that the bullets had indeed bumped up to bore diameter? How did you recover bullets to measure them?
I haven't recovered any bullets, but the reason I believe these bullets are bumping up to fill the grooves is as follows. I have had (and still have one of them) a 38-55 with a .382 groove diameter and a 44-40 with a .433 groove diameter. I had .379 bullets for the 38-55 and .429 bullets for the 44-40. I like to shoot at traditional velocities. With slower burning powders like IMR 4198 and IMR 3031 I could not get good accuracy at all since these bullets were .003 and .004 inches undersize respectively. Working through pressure curves I realized two things. First, black powder seemed to be able to bump up the soft cast bullets to fill these old bores and, second, Blue Dot/2400 have the same pressure curves as BP. I could also get the same effect by using slightly slower powders like IMR SR4759 at a higher velocity to get the same peak pressure. I tried it and problem solved. Good accuracy at 100 and 200 yards. With the 38-55 I went from 6" groups at 100 yards to 2.5" groups. With the 44-40 I went from 8" groups to 3" groups at 100 yards (the bore was badly pitted so I figured this was about as good as I could get.

Bottom LIne: If BP can bump up a bullet, then all I had to do was to use a smokeless load that had identical pressure curves to BP and the accuracy problem was solved.

I still have my 38-55 and don't ever plan to part with it and I still use .379" bullets in the .382 groove diameter bore, but I bump up the bullet with my smokeless load of SR4759. I can't do it with IMR 3031 even at the same velocity.

Another way to look at it is like this ..... if BP can bump up a soft cast bullet, then a smokeless powder with the same pressure curve as BP will do the same thing. The general rule of thumb is this, for the same case type, bullet and muzzle velocity, smokeless powders in the Blue Dot and 2400 burn rate range will have the same pressure curves as BP.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cowboykell
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by cowboykell »

Well, everybody has to believe in something. :roll:
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KirkD
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Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by KirkD »

Well I think there is good rational justification for believing that the faster smokeless powders will bump up a soft cast bullet as well or better than BP. The property of BP that permits it to bump up a soft cast bullet is its peak pressure, shown in the curves I posted earlier. So any smokeless load that generates the same or higher peak pressure will bump up a soft cast bullet. What would be hard to believe is if smokeless loads that generated the same pressure curve as BP would not bump up a soft cast bullet the same as BP. That would require a suspension of the laws of physics.

I wonder if the failure of smokeless loads to bump up soft cast bullets that some observe, has been with loads that used slower powders like IMR 4198 IMR 3031 or even IMR 4227 or 5744 for milder loads. I can put a pretty stiff load of IMR 3031 under my 38-55 bullets and it simply will not bump up the bullet to fill the bore, with the result I get poor accuracy. Fast powders with a higher peak pressure solve that problem.

On a related subject, the different burn rates of smokeless powder can be very useful in developing a load. When I develop a load, I want a powder fast enough to seal the brass against the chamber wall (no sooty cases) but slow enough to keep the pressures within the desired range. Coupled with that, I want a powder fast enough to bump up a soft cast bullet, but no so fast as to get skidding as the rifling begins to turn the bullet and slow enough to fill the case. When it comes to reloading cartridges that were originally BP cartridges, I find there is a 'sweet spot' when it comes to smokeless powder burn rates that runs between 2400 and IMR 4198, with my most used powders being 2400, SR4759 and 5744. These seem to have the right combination of burn rate and bulk (especially SR4759 for bulk). I can use IMR 3031 if I have bullets sized to .001 over groove diameter.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
76/444

Re: A gnawing question for you caster's....

Post by 76/444 »

Hmmmmmm,... you got me thinking Kirk!

8)
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