Side by side 12 ga??

[Rusty]

Someone posted here a few days ago about getting a new Stoger Uplander. Is there anything on the market that compares with them in that price and quality range?

Thanks,

[horsesoldier03]

I have one, although I am a bit disappointed in it right now. About a month ago I had it out cleaning it and pressed the cock to the side to drop the barrels open. As I did this I let the action open of its own weight and it ended up cracking the stock at the top right and left side next to the action. I can probably get a clamp and some good wood glue and make it look right again but IMO I was by no means abusing the gun and it shouldnt have gotten a crack from that in the first place. Stoeger guns used to be fairly economical however prices seem to have risen IMO. They only warantee there firearms for 1 YEAR. In the future I think I will take my buisness to a company that has a bit more faith in their products.

[Lefty Dude]

They are guaranted for one year for a reason. Under heavy use thats about there life time.

Most I know who use them for CAS/SASS a lot have a back-up and maybe three. Rib and barrel seperation is very common. Forearms split and crack, stocks break.

My Brother shoots one in compitition and CAS, his lasted less than 2 years. The rib between the barrels let go.

Shooter's spend a grand each for a pair of revolvers and a rifle, and $400.00 or less for a Shotgun. It's the shotgun that win's or looses a match.

[Lastmohecken]

Normally, if you want a good side by side, you have got to pay. Cheap side by sides are normally not very good.

Are you cowboy shooting or hunting?

[adirondakjack]

The best inexpensive SxS today is the Russian Baikal. For a while marketed as Remington Sparton, it's back to Baikal now. Made by the same folks who make Makarovs, they work well and are tougher than a Stoeger. I use one for CAS (rough service) and have no complaints.

[Lefty Dude]

The CZ's are very well made and are put together nicely.

If I were getting a new SXS it would be a CZ.

[Griff]

I have a Stoeger Uplander that's been used in CAS events since it was new... in 1989. They musta built 'em better back then.

[Dave]

The CZ's are very well made and are put together nicely.

If I were getting a new SXS it would be a CZ.

I have a CZ Bobwhite 20 gauge and I love it. It is my squirrel gun. They are well made. They had a little trouble with the early single trigger guns. Mine is a double trigger and is fine. I see used ones around sometimes. I passed up a 12 gauge not long ago.

A buddy of mine had a Stoeger and it was not a good gun.

If you know an FFL who will do transfers CDNN usually has some good deals on CZ's and other SxS. You can download the catalog.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

[kemosabi45]

Hey Dave what does a bob white squirrel look like? Never mind i know it's one of those flying squirrels.
I like my old Steven 311's both in 12ga and 20ga, you can find them used at a very reasonable price and very often in great shape

[Lefty Dude]

Hey Dave what does a bob white squirrel look like? Never mind i know it's one of those flying squirrels.
I like my old Steven 311's both in 12ga and 20ga, you can find them used at a very reasonable price and very often in great shape

Yep; 311 are built like a tank. I have two in 16 ga. the one is a Stevens 5000, the other a Fox B Savage. Then I have a 311H 12 ga.

[Rusty]

I don't shoot CAS I just want something to keep around the house. I didn't know there was problems with the Stoger, thanks for the heads up on that.

I remember seeing a Fox I think it was a B/SE a long time ago that looked to be a little nicer than a Stevens 311, but either one would be nice if I shop around I guess.

[76/444]

The best inexpensive SxS today is the Russian Baikal. For a while marketed as Remington Sparton, it's back to Baikal now. Made by the same folks who make Makarovs, they work well and are tougher than a Stoeger. I use one for CAS (rough service) and have no complaints.

Yup!

[Hobie]

You get what you pay for. Even at what seem to be currently elevated prices, the Savage/Stevens 311 and similar side-by-sides are better values and better shotguns for what shotguns do than the current imports. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

PS - I can say that because I have two which have been shot thousands of rounds in the field and on the skeet range and are still fine functioning shotguns not off the face at all.

[madman4570]

I have the Stoeger Uplander,I really cant say durability wise as it sits in the safe most of the time,after being used to carrying my Single Winchester 37 or Stevens 94 or my Ithaca 37 those doubles are a pain! If I was to get another Double it would be an over/under but I wont! If the 311 is built anything like the older Stevens 94 that would be the one! Good Luck which ever you choose!

[Buck Elliott]

The Spartan/Baikal shotguns also feel kinda like a Makarov... Not real hand-friendly, IMNSHO

My favorite ( and a real fave among the CAS shooters) is the TTN (now Cimarron) from china

They're tank-tough, and require very little (if any) work to make 'em run like they'd oughtta.

I rechambered mine to accept 3 1/2" shells, and it's held up under all kinds of abuse for over 4 years. Still tight & solid.

[76/444]

The Spartan/Baikal shotguns also feel kinda like a Makarov... Not real hand-friendly, IMNSHO

My favorite ( and a real fave among the CAS shooters) is the TTN (now Cimarron) from china

They're tank-tough, and require very little (if any) work to make 'em run like they'd oughtta.

I rechambered mine to accept 3 1/2" shells, and it's held up under all kinds of abuse for over 4 years. Still tight & solid.

Interesting!!! The main reason I went to the Spartan/Baikal was because of the bulky funky fat Stoeger ergos! The Remington seemed streamlined in comparison!! Never saw a TTN in my area when I was shopping for a double, so I can't comment. What I found most amazing about my Spartan, is how well regulated the barrels are, even out to 80 yds. (farthest I have shot to date), with #4 high brass on hay stealing black tail jacks!! I have not missed at that distance to my hay stack and I don't know what the choke is, but I would say 90 to 95% of of the loads are knocking them down with 2&3/4" shells.

[madman4570]

Interesting!!! The man reason I went to the Spartan/Baikal was because of the bulky funky fat Stoeger ergos!

ya know, Its not fair of me to base my LIMITED experience of doubles based just on my Stoeger.I mean it looks pretty beefy and all,but I am sure some of the other makes/models are much more carry friendly.I really am the wrong guy to consider much good info on this topic from.

[Blaine]

I like my Baikal 12ga SxS (not a coach gun). I will say that a round or two of clays is hard on me due to light weight and the checkering will hurt my hands after awhile (I know, get gloves ). This is a real nice gun, though. All the double bbl shotgun I'll ever need, though I shudder at the thought of touching off any more 3" mag loads. Those hurt bad

[Buck Elliott]

Got me there...
My 20" TTN has NO choke, but seems to work very well out to shotgun distances (for me, at least...) Oh, yeah... It doubles as 'bear spray' around here.

I did trim the wood on mine, but that's not a problem, because of the original oil finish. Also cut the stock and put on a decelerator pad -- sometimes I wish I hadn't. The rubber won't "let go" of you like the steel butt-plate will...

I did some other minor work to make the gun more like an original Colt 1878, but that's just the way I am...

All in all, I prefer hammer guns. I can SEE that they're cocked (or not...) and they open so much easier than hammerless guns.

FWIW, a customer brought in a TTN to have choke tubes installed. We sent it out to an outfit that specializes in that kind of work, and they did a great job on it, but the barrels were cut mighty thin at the muzzles, and the tubes are thin-wall too. Don't know how long it will hold up, but he uses it for CAS, so I'm sure we'll find out...

[vancelw]

Hey Dave what does a bob white squirrel look like? Never mind i know it's one of those flying squirrels.
I like my old Steven 311's both in 12ga and 20ga, you can find them used at a very reasonable price and very often in great shape

Yep, the price on old 311s has risen over the past few years, but I'd buy another one before I'd by any of the Russian or italian side-by-sides I've had my hands on. I also have a Springfield Model 511 built by Savage that I bought new in 1975. It was 85 dollars then and the only difference between it and a 311 seems to be the wood fit and quality. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I hardly ever see the 511s at gun shows, but if you do, you might pick up a bargain.

[Dave]

Hey Dave what does a bob white squirrel look like? Never mind i know it's one of those flying squirrels.
I like my old Steven 311's both in 12ga and 20ga, you can find them used at a very reasonable price and very often in great shape

This is a bobwhite squirrel. It may be hard to see in the picture, but this critter has the body of a squirrel and the head of a quail. I even have a special dog for them. Instead of treeing like a normal squirrel dog, he points to the tree with the squirrel in it.

[marlin shooter]

I Went hunting with a coworker today who bought 1 of the imports (a cheaper Italian) over and under about 10 to 12 years ago. I could not believe how loose it was. A lot of play in the hinge pin. He never shot skeet or trap and say's he probably has 2000 or so rounds thru it. I couldn't believe the slop in the action. I'm with Hobie thinking the Sav 311 or derivitives of it are a stout gun. I have a stevens 5100 16 guage that locks tight and It is from the 1950's I believe.
Karl

[shawn_c992001]

I have an EAA Bounty Hunter I've had great luck out of. A few SASS matches and clays sessions with no complaints if I remember correctly price was about $325 or so.

[jlchucker]

The best inexpensive SxS today is the Russian Baikal. For a while marketed as Remington Sparton, it's back to Baikal now. Made by the same folks who make Makarovs, they work well and are tougher than a Stoeger. I use one for CAS (rough service) and have no complaints.

I got to agree, Jack. About 5 or 6 years ago (maybe a little longer) our little club's resident gunshop owner had a few of these come in--both side by's and over-unders. Our club at that time only had a trap range, populated by residents who varied from competitive shooters to folks who'd never shot before in their lives. These Baikals started showing up in increasing numbers. I never liked the over-unders I bought--I'm a lefty and all Baikals have a slight cast off stock for a righty. A bit of whittling on my 12 side-by, though, and it fit pretty good. I've used it pretty much every Sunday and Wednesday since. It's never failed once, although it was not uncommon to see problems with some various 0ver-unders that were far more pricey and prestigious. The Baikal guns are indeed tough. Not pretty, but kind of reminiscent of Russian AK47's--utterly dependable. They all come with choke tubes, and Colonial can supply tubes for them in just about any guage and choke you'd want. You can use it for trap or hunting. If you hunt ducks and lose your oar, they can serve as one in an emergency--try that with your Browning Diana grade, or Perazzi!