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I was reading the recent issue of "Rifle: The Legacy Of Leverguns", and specifically the article on the new Mossberg 464 leveraction .30-30 WCF rifle. This is basically a Winchester Model 94 updated a bit. This quote from a Mossberg representative caught my eye:
"So far, the only problems we've had with our Model 464 rifles has been making them fast enough."
Okay, I'll bite. Do any of you levergunners here have one, and if so, what is your impression of them?
Don't get me wrong, I like Mossberg firearms. My first shotgun was a Mossberg 500, and 30 years later I still have it and it works wonderfully. I just don't recall a ton of discussion about their new levergun here, and I figured if any crowd would disproportionately own one, it is this one!
We have had one in the shop. It hasn't sold. In the time it is there new and old Marlins and old Winchesters have gone out the door with prices higher and lower. Nobody has yet wanted it. We've gotten no more of them because of this.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
IMHO, the "Mossberg" brand name will be the death of it.
As will the somewhat shotgun/cumbersome-looking tang safety.
Far too many prospective buyers will associate the name with low-quality/cheesy firearms, and not even get as far as actually looking the 464 over.
For those who've actually bought/used one (and there've been a few on this forum), they're not bad at all.
They just don't meet the expectations of those Winchester 94 mourners looking for a direct, new replacement - which the Mossy 464 isn't, with the round bolt, etc.
I looked over a 464 w/pistol grip very closely and it's not bad. I did notice some things that stood out as needing improvement.
First, the second safety tab behind the trigger similar to Marlin's button under the lever. Conceptually OK but execution wise, not so good. I found that I had to not just close the action, but squeeze the lever closed while shooting to disengage it the second safety.
Second, both the buttstock and forestock seemed a bit thick to me and the checkering was poorly pressed in the one I looked at.
Third, the fit and finish and sights were OK but nothing to write home about even compared to my Rossi's.
All in all, it's probably a serviceable 30-30 but nothing I found about it excited me so I passed.
Steve Retired and Living the Good Life No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
"CHEESY",.... what a shame. Sorry to hear folks say such about Mossberg. Do they use the plainest wood one could find? YUP! Do they put out a mediocre quality finish and blueing? You Bet!!! But, when I was a kid, we looked at Mossberg as an equal to all the other run of the mill manufacturers like Winchester and Remington, at the time .
The funniest thing about this, is,(if memory serves me), Mossberg has basically stayed alive over the decades by supplying barrels to a lot of other gun makers. I know my xxxxxxxxx has one. Which leads me to believe all of their other rifles do. And it has been sub MOA since day one. I think that the BARREL of any weapon is its heart and after that the action being its guts. Mossbeg barrels (from when I was on top of this stuff) were second to none and I would tend to believe still are! I think a lot of folks would be shocked to learn how many manufacturers use Mossberg barrels.
Last edited by 76/444 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I looked at one, and espacally for the price, I wouldn't have one, and I don't know why anyone else would either. Life is too shot to hunt with an ugly looking piece of stuff like that rifle. There is still too many Winchesters and Marlins and Browning available to waste my money on one of those.
I am sorry, it's just that I am so sick and tired of the offerings shoveled out of the gun factorys these days, and it's not like they are offering any real savings over a lot of better rifles, either. Is this really what the buying public wants these days?
My personal experience is limited to a chance encounter at the range with an old friend that had one of the first ones, and many trips here & there where I have seen them for sale and I 'kicked the tires' on them.
My observations are;
The more recently produced ones seem to be better fitted and finished then the older ones.
The early one of my friends is the only one I shot but it shot accurately.....2" 5 shot group at 100 yards with a definte vertical tendecy.
The early 464 of my friends seemed to be gritty in action and the saftey was not smooth.....I will say this was the worst of any I have handled but it was serviceable and I suppose might smooth up with time and effort.
All the wood I have seen has been 'blah' birch. And not entirely well fitted but again serviceable.
IMO if I had a choice between a new 30 WCF Marlin or a 30 WCF Mossberg for the same $ I would chose the Marlin. If Mossberg offered a 375 Wim or 358 Win or a 7-30 Waters or a 41 mag or a 327 Federal then I think I would chose that over a 30 WCF or 35 Rem Marlin.
I looked at one in one of the local slobber shops. I know the winchester 94, and this moosburg thing is NO model 94. Poorly finished, action was sort of akin to draggin a plowlathe on a gravel road. Don't even care to shoot one of the things.
WINCHESTER ARE YOU LISTENING??????? THIS FOOLISHNESS HAS GONE ON LONGENOUGH........
wm wrote:My personal experience is limited to a chance encounter at the range with an old friend that had one of the first ones, and many trips here & there where I have seen them for sale and I 'kicked the tires' on them.
My observations are;
The more recently produced ones seem to be better fitted and finished then the older ones.
The early one of my friends is the only one I shot but it shot accurately.....2" 5 shot group at 100 yards with a definte vertical tendecy.
The early 464 of my friends seemed to be gritty in action and the saftey was not smooth.....I will say this was the worst of any I have handled but it was serviceable and I suppose might smooth up with time and effort.
All the wood I have seen has been 'blah' birch. And not entirely well fitted but again serviceable.
IMO if I had a choice between a new 30 WCF Marlin or a 30 WCF Mossberg for the same $ I would chose the Marlin. If Mossberg offered a 375 Wim or 358 Win or a 7-30 Waters or a 41 mag or a 327 Federal then I think I would chose that over a 30 WCF or 35 Rem Marlin.
Wm
agree. to make up for the so-so quality, i'll consider one chambered in .338 marlin. too many good winchesters floating around to setlle for one in 30w.c.f
I believe OJ has one, ( where is OJ?) and he was really unhappy with it.
Possibly he'll see this post and tell you about it.
I've looked at one of them and was neutral about it. They had the lever tie strapped closed so I couldn't feel it. A quickie look see showed me a gun about the same quality as the later AE Winchesters. OK, but not really up to snuff.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Hmmmm. Let's take a post-64 Winchester 94, give it a round bolt, Metal Injected Molded internal parts, a birch stock, really bad sights, indifferent customer service, and try to sell it for $500. We'll make a mint!
bogie
Sadly, "Political Correctness" is the most powerful religion in America, and it has ruined our society.
I gotta go with the flow on this one. I handled one briefly at a local shop, didn't take long to realize it wasn't for me. Not as long as there's so many 94s still around. It gave me the impression of about a 200 dollar rifle, not 500.
was at my local gun shop when a customer was returning his to get a boken extractor fixed i like them at first but they don't look very good up close next lever for me will be marlin 336 30-30.
I wish winchester still made the plain 94 30-30 still.
The one I handled at a shop was OK fit and finish wise. when I thumbed the REBOUNDING hammer it was the same as a cheap toy. I hate rebounding hammers and won't have one.
The host of "Trophy Quest" TV show has chosen to use the Mossberg 464 in 30-30 to take all 29 North American big game animals (with open sights too). I find it peculiar that Mossberg is not a sponsor of the show and I don't see any advertising by Mossberg during the show yet. It is hard to believe the show would choose this rifle above all others for this quest without sponsorship or endorsement. Specifically absent is any discussion of the ammunition they are using. Either way, it will be interesting to see if they discuss any faults of the gun or if we see it break down during an actual hunt.
So far the show is pretty good with close up views of the rifle in action. On a coastal bear hunt the bear is hit at 100 yds and another shot is immediately fired as the bear flees. That one puts it down for good. You can see the empty case flying out of the gun and notice the speed in which the lever is worked and the second shot fired. I've noticed the gun is carried with the hammer down and cocked to fire, but the shooter NEVER takes off the tang safety, so I think he has chosen not to use the manual tang safety. We'll see how this pans out, as this will be a lot of rounds, travel and field shooting for the Mossberg.
I just watched the Bison hunt and was happy to see the one shot kill on the bison. It's funny that he keeps saying "this was the first gun my daddy gave me" when it isn't. Mossberg is never mentioned.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
The same day I handled a 464 (priced at $500 or so), I saw brand-new economy-grade Marlin 336s at $337. Now, I had (and have) no reason to think the 464 is any less of a rifle than the 336, but the price difference along with the better-looking finish of the Marlin made me conclude that if Mossberg can't come a lot closer to the Marlin price point the 464 won't last too long. I hasten to add that I have known a lot of Mossbergs in the past 50 years, and they have all been solid and reliable, if not always the prettiest, guns.
Reading this thread confirms what I have said time and time again about Gun Writers in General. If I want the total truth about a Gun I go to you Guys because I will get the Honest truth which is a Decent gun, but not really worth the asking price. When I read a Gun Magazine article it usually states the 464 is a Carbon copy of the Winchester 94 with minute of angle accuracy. By the way I discontinued 4 different magazines this winter, I have had enough B.S. from them. What I am taking from you guys is that the 464 is not as nice a gun as my Model 94 Winchester 1951 in 99% condition that I paid 500 Bucks for. It makes sense to me when I think about it.
It's unlikely anyone will better the pre-64 Model 94 Winchester. Ten years ago I bought one in 99% condition for $65.00 with a box of ammo. It had 4 rounds down the tube. I wish I'd kept it.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
I have several Mossies either passd down to me or bought used, all of them are cob rough, very dependable and accurate. Will never buy a new one, used you bet, no worry about rain, scratches they are to be used.
J Miller wrote:I believe OJ has one, ( where is OJ?) and he was really unhappy with it.
Possibly he'll see this post and tell you about it.
I've looked at one of them and was neutral about it. They had the lever tie strapped closed so I couldn't feel it. A quickie look see showed me a gun about the same quality as the later AE Winchesters. OK, but not really up to snuff.
Joe
OJ Post subject: Re: The New .22 Mossberg 464 Levergun Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:26 pm
With the number of component failures (extractors mostly) occurring in the first half dozen shots, it strongly suggests absolutely no test firing was done - since the defective extractors would have been diagnosed immediately.
OTOH, if test firing was done, Mossberg ignored the problem - not even an apology or any warning notices sent to new owners.
Mossberg has been aware of the failures problems for a long time and I've seen no evidence they give a darn - at least Toyota did recalls and repaired problems.
If there wasn't test firing, can one be certain the next failure might not be the bolt/locking mechanism - where failure could be devastating to the shooter?
I think until Mossberg shows some concern for those of us who experienced the failures and had to bear expenses of shipping guns to repair facilities - I can restrain myself from taking my hat off to Mossberg - I can think of more appropriate gestures.
OJ KING
SEMPER FI
DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY
NRA LIFE MEMBER
.***
