POLITICS -I don't trust dopers any more than child molesters

[Blaine]

I have no dog in this race, and I am all for supporting the constitution, but in this case, I am compelled to speak up in support of the side of ScottT and Griff and those others on that side. I am so glad this guy didn't have a chance to make the news discharging those 60 rounds into those folks at wal-mart. We have seen too often that notes and hints of pending doom, gone unnoticed, have caused innocents bodily injury or death. I am appalled at how low some are willing to go in personal attacks during the course of open discussion. I thought this forum was above this.
Now here is your chance at taking shots at me for supporting the side I do.

I somewhat agree...I think my problem with Scott's original thread is the Doper/Child Molester connection, and the picture, as if ones' personal looks would convey guilt. Bad form. That and the fact that I'm on a maintence dose of narcotic for pain and it does nothing to your senses whatsoever.... Scott, if anything, I'd hope your brush with the law would enable you to have a whole story to go on before passing judgement, not just the bleed and read version in a local rag........I'm thankful the APD got to him in time, too.

[shawn45]

I stayed out of this as long as I can. I am a nurse and I administer methadone to my pts on a daily basis. It is used for treatment of withdrawl symptoms caused by the narcotics my pt's are on. I have never in my 14 years as a nurse used it for pain control as it is not a good pain control measure for chronic pain. There are much better drugs. As for methadone not giving the pt a "high" I will just say the glassy eyes and calm blank stare the pt has immediately after giving it along with a decrease in heart rate and blood pressure leads me to believe differently.
If you want to discuss pain meds that is a specialty of mine.

[rob]

Scott,

If the man was carrying one baseball bat, or two, or 200, what would his motive be? Think about carrying around a brick of .22LR ammo: there are at least 325 rounds in some of them. Is that "unreasonable? ...how about driving around town, with no particular destination, with 27 gallons of gas in the tank? What do you mean by "licensened individual"? None of this has been proven in a court of law, yet. Even if it gets that far, the reports that you posted are a hachet-job, written with sensationalism in mind, at best. ...not that "proving" anything in court makes it right.

Does carrying just 10 rounds make you any better than anyone else? If I carry two ten-round magazine, what is my motive?

Shawn

Dude....are you smoking crack? Most licensed CHL holders are not writing notes to their wives and texting family members telling them to turn on the news because they have chosen life in prison before going out on the town with 60 rounds of ammo. I probably have over 300 rounds of ammo in my truck at all times but I sure don't carry it into a store with me. I feel quite capable of handing a violent situation with the 16 rounds of 9MM in my Glock and if you know anything about most gunfight stats you will know that most of the time a violent situation is over (for good or bad) before the average person can empty a 7 round 1911 clip.

This sort of aggressive willful stupidity is why I rarely read these forums any more. Hobie told me not to cuss out stupid people any more so I will respectfully comply.

[ScottT]

Guys, we have all stated our opinons here.

I want you to look at what I was looking at. Additionally, I have confirmation that he was prescribed the Methadone as a diversion from heroin addiction.

http://home.kxan.com/news_PDFs/5.5.08eberle.pdf

If you read the words he wrote and text messaged and you believe that he was harmless, we can surely agree to disagree. And it won't offend me in the least if you disagree with my position.

[Hobie]

It's not like he was out Raging around on unprescribed 'roids and capping people.

That was uncalled for.

We do not condone or permit personal attacks on this forum.

[Leverdude]

I somewhat agree...I think my problem with Scott's original thread is the Doper/Child Molester connection, and the picture, as if ones' personal looks would convey guilt. Bad form. That and the fact that I'm on a maintence dose of narcotic for pain and it does nothing to your senses whatsoever.... Scott, if anything, I'd hope your brush with the law would enable you to have a whole story to go on before passing judgement, not just the bleed and read version in a local rag........I'm thankful the APD got to him in time, too.

Well said Tubby.
I hesitate to open my yap because I dont know all the facts & I think most here already know I tend to err on the side of caution in these things. I realize its not the most common opinion in the world but I'd rather see an ocasional bad egg slip thru than risk ruining an innocent ones life.

Reason I piped up now is Blaine said what I couldn't piece together.
I dont agree with ScottT on many many things. I knew of the things he just posted for along time & they bothered me. I let it influence my opinion of the man even while argueing against similar trial by media or rumor of others.
In my blind ambition to stand up for guys who's rights I thought were being ignored I ignored his. I tend to take up for the underdog & his position is such that I never looked at him as one. But he was once.
Our system of justice investigated him & found him innocent of the allegations. But because he is a lawyer & was a cop I failed to give him the same courtesy I tend to extend to other less fortunate men.
For this I owe him my humblest apology.

I still dont agree with many of his thoughts. But he deserves at least as much respect as anyone else & I'm ashamed that I was unwilling to give him that.

I think it unfair to assume that this guy was a druggie or to assume that 60 rounds of ammo automatically means massacre just because you want it to be true. But it was no less unfair for me to believe things I read about him simply because I wanted them to be true.

My life experience has given me a general mistrust of ambitious police. Not something I'm ready to abandon but definitely something I'm going to try to be more open minded about.
His life experience has taught him different things thru his own unique existence. Perhaps he tries already to be open minded & not make assumptions of guilt based on how a person looks or where they come from. Or maybe he needs to work on that. But thats beyond my realm of knowledge or control.

All I can do is work on myself & my shortcomings.
Not that I aint already perfect or nothing.

[ScottT]

I forgive you and hold no grudge.

If I had read all the stuff written about me without any context, I might believe as you did.

[natedontgo]

Nothing unexpected in what this guy will post about anything or anyone that he disagrees with.... nothing more than a water carrier for G.O.A.and the rest of the Knoxites... Nate

[Old Ironsights]

Nothing unexpected in what this guy will post about anything or anyone that he disagrees with....

Gentlemen, if I had intended to publicly impune Scott to the members of this Forum, I would have attempted to do so in a much more obvious way. Note that none of you made any inferences from the comment except Scott. It was a personal attack only in that Scott chooses to take it so.

Scott: I am fully aware you were "no billed", so you are innocent of the legal charges that were leveled against you. Since you are innocent of those charges, then the comment isn't/wasn't really applicable to you, is it?

Regardless of whether the situation I described relates to you or any other unnamed person in specific, the difference between the two situations discussed is demonstrably correct.

A man is only a "Doper" if he misuses a drug - prescribed or not - for personal gain/pleasure. That is the simple Truth.

I'm sorry you're offended, and you are more than welcome to take it out on me, but I'm more dissapointed that you refuse to adhere to, or seemingly accept as valid, the very principles, (in particular Presumption of Innocence), that assured you were able to take the Bar and lead a successful life after the issues in Houston. I think Matthew 18:23-35 is appropriate in this context.

nothing more than a water carrier for G.O.A.and the rest of the Knoxites... Nate

Guilty as charged, and no regrets there.

[piller]

I read the link and Eberle was prescribed the Methadone for pain management. As I stated, the Texas laws allow for that. Methadone is a fair pain reliever as it does not give the addiction problems that Hydrocodone/Apap, Oxycodone, Morphine, Hydromorphone, or Fentanyl give. It lasts about 8 hours and does not induce its own breakdown as the aforementioned drugs do. Whatever else he did, calling Eberle a Doper was a real stretch. Jumping to conclusions is a good way to make yourself look bad when the facts come out. ScottT, your lumping the perp in with Dopers was character assasination. He was TOTALLY wrong in what he did, but nothing in the information provided backs up your characterization of him as a doper.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

... If you read the words he wrote and text messaged and you believe that he was harmless, we can surely agree to disagree. And it won't offend me in the least if you disagree with my position.

Thanks for posting the link to the details. It brings some clarity to the gravity of the unfolding situation.

For someone who wanted to end up in prison, he had a pretty odd need to make sure his record of properly returning books to the library was untarnished. Weird.

[ScottT]

I read the link and Eberle was prescribed the Methadone for pain management. As I stated, the Texas laws allow for that. Methadone is a fair pain reliever as it does not give the addiction problems that Hydrocodone/Apap, Oxycodone, Morphine, Hydromorphone, or Fentanyl give. It lasts about 8 hours and does not induce its own breakdown as the aforementioned drugs do. Whatever else he did, calling Eberle a Doper was a real stretch. Jumping to conclusions is a good way to make yourself look bad when the facts come out. ScottT, your lumping the perp in with Dopers was character assasination. He was TOTALLY wrong in what he did, but nothing in the information provided backs up your characterization of him as a doper.

Read it again doc. It does not say that. It says his wife told the officers that. But, you are certainly free to disagree with me.

Let me pose this question. Knowing what you know about this guy, not from what I posted, but just what was in the police affidavit......even assuming that your position is correct and he is taking the methadone for pain only, are you gonna trust this fellow with your family any more than you would entrust them to a known child molester? If you can say "yes" I'm fine with that.

[FWiedner]

Let me pose this question. Knowing what you know about this guy, ... are you gonna trust this fellow with your family any more than you would entrust them to a known child molester?

Hell ScottT, seems like all the drama coulda been avoided if'n you'd just asked that question up front...

[piller]

I did not say that he was a good person. You are attempting to put words in my mouth. I am simply saying that the doper characterization has nothing to back it up. Until the Doctor's records are subpoened, or the Pharmacy records subpoened we cannot know that he was a doper. He did make terroristic threats, he did break several laws, he did appear to be a criminal, but the doper charge just doesn't have any reason to be levied.

[TCB in TN]

Here is my $.02, I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him, that said, I wouldn't trust any of you guys either! I don't know you and as such you are not really that high on my list. (No offense, but makes me and mine a little safer). Bad guys are known by their actions, and the fact that dude stated some intent to do something bad, makes his a risk. The fact that he had 60 rounds really should mean nothing. I have CCW'd for better than 10 years. During that time I have carried (in the winter months) using a shoulder holder rig for my primary, and an ankle holster for my BUG had 45 rounds of 9mm and another 20 rounds of .32 on me. Was I really a danger because of that? We should be punishing actions. Dude made a threat, loaded up and showed up there, putting his threat into motion, he should be punished! It should be the end of story no matter what.

[Hagler]

Scott,

If the man was carrying one baseball bat, or two, or 200, what would his motive be? Think about carrying around a brick of .22LR ammo: there are at least 325 rounds in some of them. Is that "unreasonable? ...how about driving around town, with no particular destination, with 27 gallons of gas in the tank? What do you mean by "licensened individual"? None of this has been proven in a court of law, yet. Even if it gets that far, the reports that you posted are a hachet-job, written with sensationalism in mind, at best. ...not that "proving" anything in court makes it right.

Does carrying just 10 rounds make you any better than anyone else? If I carry two ten-round magazine, what is my motive?

Shawn

Dude....are you smoking crack? Most licensed CHL holders are not writing notes to their wives and texting family members telling them to turn on the news because they have chosen life in prison before going out on the town with 60 rounds of ammo. I probably have over 300 rounds of ammo in my truck at all times but I sure don't carry it into a store with me. I feel quite capable of handing a violent situation with the 16 rounds of 9MM in my Glock and if you know anything about most gunfight stats you will know that most of the time a violent situation is over (for good or bad) before the average person can empty a 7 round 1911 clip.

This sort of aggressive willful stupidity is why I rarely read these forums any more. Hobie told me not to cuss out stupid people any more so I will respectfully comply.

rob,

I hear you. Unfortunately for your theorum, I do not drink, smoke, shoot-up, or anything else that is mind-altering. I don't even stand behind a firetruck to warm up, and I never owned a tinfoil hat.

If you go back to the sensational debut of this topic, then you will see the inuendo of some reporters, relative to certain things the alleged perpatraitor carried with him: a gun & 60 rounds of ammunition.

I was also taking to task Mr. Scott T., for his previously chiding of us for blurting out oppinions & accusations on a story that demands more facts, and less oppinions. Scott posted his oppinion & some left-leaning media reports, which he based his statements on, instead of presenting his case, the way he tries to get us to.

If the guy really did all of the things that he is reported to have done, then he should be charged with those crimes, accordingly. The focus of the media, and the focus of some of the charges, is guns, instead of a more proper charge ( if there is such a category) of threatening mass-murder, trespassing, or something more appropriate to his actual crimes.

Shawn

[Hagler]

Let me pose this question. Knowing what you know about this guy, ... are you gonna trust this fellow with your family any more than you would entrust them to a known child molester?

Hell ScottT, seems like all the drama coulda been avoided if'n you'd just asked that question up front...

That sounds about right. My previously-mentioned "moot" court comes to mind.

Shawn

[Hagler]

Scott T,

Are you done with your presentation? Is this moot over?

Shawn

What else is there to say?

You have your opinion and I have mine. I am quite comfortable with that.

Scott,

I have been trying to rag you, because you give us laypeople such a hard time when we state things in a certain way. Do you always give people around you such a hard time? ...or, do you currently have a surplus of argumentum cogitus?

Shawn

[Jarhead]

I'm not sure what's scaryier, him, and his PLANNED actions, or those that are DEFENDING them.

Good grief!

Kudo's to his wife and the quick acting cops. May he get his wish, or both of them, to spend his life in jail or die soon.

Good riddance.

I agree! Screw this "sh&t bird" ....

[Jarhead]

I've stayed outta this fray as I probably don't have anything positive to contribute.

But, I think ScottT is on the money here... and the reasons I feel this way are based mostly on my experience, knowledge and logical conclusions of a somewhat rational person, (in that any of us are). Any of which could be wrong.

1st and foremost: The way I read the initial post and article was in NO way directed at any forum member or their specific circumstances. Some of ya'll are just either overly-sensitive or have more to hide than the rest of us.

2: Methadone is a legal narcotic, favored by the rehab crowd as it allows most herion addicts to function in a somewhat normal fashion without most of the side affects of withdrawals and any of the "high" associated with herion. See: Methadone Fact Sheet

3: It is a completely understandable conclusion that the subject of the article is a recovering herion addict. And, having been in the presence of a herion addict during their attempts to shake the addiction "cold turkey", I wouldn't wish that agony on anyone. Well, yes I would, the person that supplied the individual the drug and fostered their addiction.

4: The presence of the note and the phone/text msg to his family make it a reasonable assumption that the subject of the article is in an unstable frame of mind, that plus the fact that he is armed (illegally, may I remind you), make it certainly reasonable that the police conducted themselves as they did; averting a potential diasaster. The fact that he was taken into custody without harm to him, the officers or other innocent bystanders speaks to their well-trained and competent methodology. And, as the elements of the crime are present, "terroristic threats" is a crime in TX. So, if you feel the need to act in such a manner and DON'T want to end up in jail, don't come to TX.

5: If the subject of the article was in the process of attempting to "kick" his herion addiction with the sponsored use of methadone I can laude his attempt, yet, his reaction to stress inducers was wholly inappropriate.

6: If the article had clearly stated that the subject's use of methadone was unrelated to an addiction to herion; (which is it's MOST common usage and is a conclusion most anyone with ANY exposure to that sub-culture would jump to), I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Maybe, just maybe, the article's failure to cut-off that line of thought is quite telling.

7: I also researched and found the following, which somewhat disputes my conclusion, but before I started this, I had NO knowledge of. Methadone Addiction, Detox, Treatment and Withdrawal states that methadone can and is used solely as a pain treatment when morphine dosage increases are not advised due to side affects, yet goes on to describe the difficulties and problems associated with its use in this capacity.

So, if you feel you must, flame away.

I agree...well said...

[AmBraCol]

And one more locked down.

Let's move on to more friendly subjects - and revise our manner of addressing each other, especially when we disagree.