POLITICS - The latest shooting...

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:30 pm

This subject hits too close to home for me...don't know if I can say anything constructive. I will venture out a little and say that these same people with mental issues, who some very mistakenly believe need to be put in a cell and the key thrown away, are in fact among God's very own. They are our sons, daughters and brothers and sisters. I offer up that this saying is very useful: "There but for the Grace of God go I". Trust me about this, from one who used to be proud that nothing like this had touched his family. It can, and may very well touch you in the near future. When I start to think about what would have happened to my son say in the 1920's, 30's and 40's I begin to shudder, and when I think of what happened to millions of these folks under Hitler, I shudder again. I stay well armed with these thoughts in the forefront of my mind. There are actually many folks today who believe in "usefulness" and "quality" in regards to grading human life, with euthanasia and abortion as easily used tools to reach their goals. God help us.

We live in a free society where there's gonna be tragedy. When there are millions upon millions of free people there are gonna be tragedy's, especially as we leave behind our founding principals. But, when you stack these smaller things up against the mass oppression/murder that would happen in a totalitarian government, I'll take the former every time. Just be armed and ready as an individual, and that is the best we can do. And vote!!!! My .02

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:40 pm

C. Cash wrote:When I start to think about what would have happened to my son say in the 1920's, 30's and 40's I begin to shudder, and when I think of what happened to millions of these folks under Hitler, I shudder again.

Good post, C. Cash. I am sorry for the pain your family has been through. Ours has been through similar tough times.

I just want to add that the German asylums were first cleared out and their residents "disappeared" before Hitler ran the country. At that time, there were people in the USA advocating the same thing. Not something you often read in our history books.

It would not take much change for our society to do the same thing, with the rabid pro-euthanasia, pro-abortion advocates we have today. Something to think about.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:09 pm

Thank you for the kind words Cubrock. Prayers sent!

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

A proactive approach to creating a more perfect society.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:27 pm

FWiedner wrote:Eugenics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics A proactive approach to creating a more perfect society.

Euthanasia.

Of the number of people killed in the T4 and the 14f13 projects, the following statistics are usually given: adult mental patients from institutions, 80,000 to 100,000; children in institutions, 5,000; special action against Jews in institutions, 1,000; concentration camp inmates transported to killing centers (14f13), 20,000 (Klee estimated that at the end of 1941, some 93,521 `beds' had been emptied for other uses [70,000 patients gassed, plus over 20,000 dead through starvation and medication] - in other words approximately one-third of the places for the mentally ill.) But these figures may well be too low; twice these numbers of people may have perished. The fact is that we do not know and shall probably never know. Elements of deception, imposed chaos, and the destruction of many records make anything like an accurate estimate impossible. http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/euthan.html

Until WWI, eugenics in Germany and the U.S. ran parallel courses. By the middle of the 1930's, more than half the states in the United Sates had passed laws that authorized the sterilization of "inmates of mental institutions, persons convicted more than once of sex crimes, those doomed to be feeble-minded by 10 tests, 'moral degenerate persons,' and epileptics." In the famous Carrie Bell case, the Supreme Court upheld the Virginia law ordering her compulsory sterilization and "presaged the arguments used later to justify eugenic killings in Nazi Germany." http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/euthan/t4.html

http://isurvived.org/Frameset4Reference ... _HOLO.html
http://www.shoaheducation.com/t4.html
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/people/USHMMHAN.HTM

Never Again.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:32 pm

Would you let your kids spend the night with a pedophile as long as he takes his pills?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:34 pm

Swampman wrote:Would you let your kids spend the night with a pedophile as long as he takes his pills?

Paedophilia is NOT a neurochemical disorder - at least it is not one that can be treated with medication.

Try learning somthing about what you are spewing about.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:00 pm

It's exactly the same situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

These guys are released all the time as long as they take their pills.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:18 pm

Swampman wrote:It's exactly the same situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

These guys are released all the time as long as they take their pills.

Your ignorance is absolutely mind boggling. Now you want to equate all neurochemical disorders with rank perversion? Based on a Wiki?

The DSM-VI and ICD-10 define Paedophilia as a PREFERENCE, not a DISEASE.

People with Neurochemical Disorders do no PREFER to be sick any more the Diabetics do.

Now either talk sense and listen or shut up, because you obviously don't understand what you are talking about.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:27 pm

No, I want to equate chemically prevented murder, with chemically prevented abhorent conduct. Both are crimes prevented by medication.

As long as both patients take their self administered drugs daily, nothing bad happens....right?

You'd let you kids go on a camping trip with a pedophile as long as he's on his meds...correct?

Perfectly safe...isn't it?

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:36 pm

Don't trust a profession that uses drugs and electric shock to treat symptoms rather than developing the knowledge to work on the causes.
Think these methodes will go the way of blood letting when the knowledge and financial incentives exist. Right now you can have the sports cars,2-3 homes and a great lifestyle treating symptoms with inhumane methods.
Two many diseases treated with drugs have a sad prognosis. One drug many times needs onother to balance the side effects of the first and on and on.
I think it's unrealistic to take some thing like an antidepressent over a long period of time without consequences. Just cause it's prescribed doesn't make it harmless. The truth of the matter is these chemicals cause greater numbers of self harm then harm to others.
Lots more to it, but don't have the time right now.
Dave

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:40 pm

Holy Jeepers

Looks like I walked into a class on "HUMAN NATURE 101".

That's why the 2nd Amendment is written the way it is.

EVERYONE (the people) have a right to arm themselves.

Once you find yourself in one of those "groups" it's too late

Freedom has it's problems and dangers, but it is the best system I can think of.

Keep taking rights away from others, then be shocked all to heck when your
rights are under attack.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Swampman wrote:No, I want to equate chemically prevented murder, with chemically prevented abhorent conduct. Both are crimes prevented by medication.

As long as both patients take their self administered drugs daily, nothing bad happens....right?

You'd let you kids go on a camping trip with a pedophile as long as he's on his meds...correct?

Perfectly safe...isn't it?

#1 Swampman, personal attacks are not permitted (re: "How's it going with the meds?"). Quit that and argue the points.

#2, chemical castration is a means by which the producers of the chemicals producing sex drive are destroyed by means of chemicals rather than blocking them in the brain. One does not take them forever. It is not the same thing as say medicating for Parkinsons, Tourettes or bi-polar.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:51 pm

Swampman wrote:No, I want to equate chemically prevented murder, with chemically prevented abhorent conduct. Both are crimes prevented by medication.

Again, you show your willful ignorance.

"Chemical Sterilization" does NOT prevent Paedophilic predation or ideation. It only prevents sexual release. Rapists don't rape because they want to get off, they Rape for Power and Dominance. No different with Child Rape.

As long as both patients take their self administered drugs daily, nothing bad happens....right?

The only reason a Child Rapist would be forced into "chemical sterilization" is BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALREADY RAPED A CHILD. They should be DEAD for committing one of the Ultimate Crimes of Violence, not "treated".

Paedophilia is NOT a "mental Illness" any more than Bank Robbery is.

You'd let you kids go on a camping trip with a pedophile as long as he's on his meds...correct?

No, because a Convivetd Child Rapist wouldn't live to make it past his first appeal.

Perfectly safe...isn't it?

Perfectly obvious you are desperately waving a Red Herring to cover the stench of more bigoted comments.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:55 pm

Since I upset Hobie, I'll let it go. Nothing is going to be done to prevent this type of crime. They'll simply take our guns instead of regulating the insane.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:07 pm

Swampman wrote:Since I upset Hobie, I'll let it go. Nothing is going to be done to prevent this type of crime. They'll simply take our guns instead of regulating the insane.

And the very idea that you think that violence can be "prevented" or the Government should "regulate" people who have committed NO CRIME speaks volumes about you.

NO act of violence can be "prevented". It can only be STOPPED by the application of reason or controlled violence at the time it is occuring.

Until you grasp that fundamental concept - one of the cornerstones of our Constitution, you will find little sympathy for your contemptable point of view.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:30 pm

Sympathy isn't something I seek.......................................

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:05 pm

Is it contempt then that you seek?

You reap what you sow.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:16 pm

As I interact with behaviorial drug ingesting zombies on a daily basis, I can only wonder what will become of my childern and grandchildren. The inmates are now running this assylum we call a planet.

Oddly I'm the only one that seems to think something's wrong. Everyone else just keeps popping those pills that the big drug companies give doctors kick-backs to push for them.

Be happy, take your pills.....

No danger as long as everyone takes their pills.......see the pretty colors...red...blue...green....yellow pills..........

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:36 pm

Swampman wrote:As I interact with behaviorial drug ingesting zombies on a daily basis, I can only wonder what will become of my childern and grandchildren. The inmates are now running this assylum we call a planet.

As of yet, you have not let us know on what basis your "interaction" is. Just because you believe that America's Vital Bodily Fluids have been tainted doesn't mean it's any more true or useful than it was for General Jack Ripper.

Oddly I'm the only one that seems to think something's wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00652.html

Everyone else just keeps popping those pills that the big drug companies give doctors kick-backs to push for them.

OMG - BigPharma's out to get youuuuuuu

Be happy, take your pills.....

No danger as long as everyone takes their pills.......see the pretty colors...red...blue...green....yellow pills..........

You seem know an awful lot about pills without knowing much about pharmacology...

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:33 pm

Oddly I'm the only one that seems to think something's wrong. Everyone else just keeps popping those pills that the big drug companies give doctors kick-backs to push for them.

No, your not alone in thinking thats a problem.
Your just alone in the belief that everyone on meds is a ticking time bomb & that they dont have the same rights as the rest of us.

Your right if you say theres no way to tell which ones will snap. You'd be right if you said theres no way to tell which of us, you included, will snap.

In America we dont persecute people because of what they might do, we prosecute them for what they have done.

It may not be redilly aparent to you but theres not much difference between your attitude about people on meds & Sarah Brady's attitude about gun owners. Both of you are painting with too broad a brush & advocating violating the rights of fellow Americans because of your personal prejudices.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:58 pm

Leverdude wrote: It may not be redilly aparent to you but theres not much difference between your attitude about people on meds & Sarah Brady's attitude about gun owners. Both of you are painting with too broad a brush & advocating violating the rights of fellow Americans because of your personal prejudices.

EXCELLENT POINT...!

So often one group (including gun owners) will treat another exactly the way they would resent being treated.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:03 pm

So, no mental patients should be confined? Let's just turn them all out.....

I mean after all a doctor decided that some of them were dangerous. Their right's are being violated. They haven't commited a crime.

You guys haven't come up with one resonable comment on this subject to date.

If someone posts a logical response I'll post again.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:29 pm

Swampman wrote:So, no mental patients should be confined? Let's just turn them all out.....

Presumptive Fallacy: "False Dilemma" and "Straw Man"

I mean after all a doctor decided that some of them were dangerous. Their right's are being violated. They haven't commited a crime.

That's right. It would take me 15 minutes to find a doctor to claim you are a danger to yourself or others. All I'd have to do is show him your posts.

You guys haven't come up with one logical argument on this subject to date.

And you have "supported" your hateful statements on a variety of Logical Fallacies, including:

Fallacy of Composition
Guilt by Association
Hasty Generalization
False Dilemma
Begging the Question
Misleading Vividness
Straw Man
Personal Attack

ect.

I'm done now.....

And yet, you still decline to give us a compelling or authoritative explanation of your "interaction" with "behaviorial drug ingesting zombies".

But then, what can you expect from somone who posts nothing in their profile? Easier to blow smoke than tell the truth.

But please, go away. THis is an argument you will not win. You are on the wrong side of History and Humanity here.