OT: Hypothetical Question Time - Which State?

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:44 pm

Here is a picture of another house I bought nearby on a half acre for a rental about 3 years ago for $170,000. Thats just to give you a idea of cost here.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:18 pm

The wife was looking at New Mexico websites again...

I gotta find me somplace HIGH if I'm gonna live that far south...

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:35 pm

TX does not have any income tax and no retirement tax. Reasonable prices, good laws, open space. The State has Mtns, Oceanfront, Desert and Forest. Good Int'l airports throughout the State. Low crime rate per capita outside city limits. No harsh winters. Year round fishing and hunting opportunities. Texas.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:56 pm

For years, my wife and I have been talking about moving out West when we retire. Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado South Dakota, something along that line. However, in recent weeks, she'd had a bee in her bonnet for us to move to East Tennessee, near Chattanooga. She and her sister have buried the hatchet after decades of separation and now she wants to live close to her.

We will see how things turn out.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:28 pm

Doc Hudson wrote:For years, my wife and I have been talking about moving out West when we retire. Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado South Dakota, something along that line. However, in recent weeks, she'd had a bee in her bonnet for us to move to East Tennessee, near Chattanooga. She and her sister have buried the hatchet after decades of separation and now she wants to live close to her.

We will see how things turn out.

You'll be up there closer to Boge and Jeff...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:39 pm

My wife and I have been hammering this out for years. Where do we want to move?
It's her that can't come to a concrete decision. I'm about to go nuts. I'm afraid that when the time comes for us to move I'm not gonna like her choice, and I will not follower her ... again. (Long story, don't ask.)

But I want to move <<<<WEST. We'll see where I end up.

Joe

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:49 pm

O.I.
My place is at 7,200 feet.
All kinds of trees, water, game, no crime (except when the local drunk runs his truck into something).
36 miles to the nearest town, good road, state keeps it plowed for the kids to go to school.
If you are retired military a base within 60 miles.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:44 pm

alnitak wrote:Being near to both big water and mountains would be one of my going in criteria. Also, I'm not particularly fond of cold weather (otherwise Alaska would be at the top of my list). Having said that, the short list of states I would consider (in no particular order) are NC, SC, Alaska, Montana, Texas, Virginia, Oregon and Arizona. Oh, and the western & panhandle part of Florida.

I feel like NC is tipping over the port side.

gunslinger598 · Post by **gunslinger598** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:55 pm

It's nt to bad right here in S E Oklahoma. There are times I wish I was in bigger country with a wider variety of game hunting. As far as cheap living, decent gusn laws, etc it just not to bad here. Hotter than heck in the summer, but not to cold in the winter.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:07 pm

What my wife and I have considered was/is a state and area that has yet to be mentioned in this thread. We have thought of New England. In particular New Hampshire and Maine. Why are we considering these places? I will tell you, but first I must admit something. We have never been to either of those states. We are planing on vacationing up there though on "scouting trips" to see what we think first hand. But back to some of the things we were thinking of. One thing is some of the pictures we have seen remind us of were we are currently living (the Arkansas Ozarks). Hill, mountains, lakes, beautiful fall colors everything. But something that were we live no longer has. A descent winter. This area stinks if you like fall and winter. The fall is short and the winter lasts about a week. We've had no decent amount of snow this year. (Ice yes, snow no. As far as taxes are concerned where we live now is as bad as either of those places (see the link I listed at the bottom of page two) without the added benefit of good access to seafood. NH's houses are quite a bit more expensive, but you do have to like the gun laws and some of their state attitudes about rights. Maine, not so much, but more land and less people and cheaper housing if you stay away from the coast. Just a few hours from, well a lot of stuff, be it historical, cultural, or (for the ladies) shopping. I really would like to hear if anyone has good reasons to ditch that line of thought and think of somewhere else. Somewhere with trees, snow and a decent sized city (30-50k) within an hour or twos drive.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:03 pm

mlkwhite,
What I am going to try and convey to you is probably more accurately described as a western predjudice, and I am thusly afflicted.
I would hate to be caught on that side of the country should something " unprecedented " happen, insert anything for the unprecedented.
The maps and charts shown after the election on the political portion of this forum, do show a rift between rural and urban peoples.
If something should happen you would most definitivly be on the urban side of some arbitrary line, I would find that a most unpaletable place.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:50 pm

Why would anybody who had a choice want to live anywhere but Texas?

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:10 pm

Because there is New Mexico.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:28 pm

mescalero1 wrote:mlkwhite,
What I am going to try and convey to you is probably more accurately described as a western predjudice, and I am thusly afflicted.
I would hate to be caught on that side of the country should something " unprecedented " happen, insert anything for the unprecedented.
The maps and charts shown after the election on the political portion of this forum, do show a rift between rural and urban peoples.
If something should happen you would most definitivly be on the urban side of some arbitrary line, I would find that a most unpaletable place.

+1 to Mescalero's post. Like California, there have always been and still are alot of good people here(I'm in Pennysylvania), but I am determined that should anything "unprecedented" happen, this is not the place I would want to be. The political climate is not good here and getting worse(though admittedly I am near a major College Town where folks are decidedly to the Left). Anywhere out in the Farm country and folks seem to regain their common sense. If I was from here and I had family here, I would probably stick it out and make a stand, but life here without family ties is rough...isolating. I wouldn't move here again if I had to do it again, and am looking at getting back to my family in the South West as soon as I can. Me personally, I want to be withing 2 days drive of my brothers/parents who are in their 70's(they are in Mesa and Flagstaff, AZ, so Texas, Colorado, Utah or New Mexico are very appealing.)

Edit: I'm not trying to sour you on the North East mlkwhite. Your experience here might be the direct opposite of mine and it may be where your most happy. Just giving you my .02...and I am a bit of a strange old Dinosaur who doesn't fit in well with modern society these days, so take my rambling for what it's worth.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:31 pm

A wise decision C.Cash
I believe freedom of movement will remain in the southwest long after it is restricted elsewhere.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:06 pm

mescalero1 wrote:mlkwhite,
What I am going to try and convey to you is probably more accurately described as a western predjudice, and I am thusly afflicted.
I would hate to be caught on that side of the country should something " unprecedented " happen, insert anything for the unprecedented.
The maps and charts shown after the election on the political portion of this forum, do show a rift between rural and urban peoples.
If something should happen you would most definitivly be on the urban side of some arbitrary line, I would find that a most unpaletable place.

+ 3 Stimuli.

That is the very reason I haven't more actively persued joining the Free State Project... as much as I agree with the principles...

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:33 am

Old Ironsights wrote:That is the very reason I haven't more actively persued joining the Free State Project... as much as I agree with the principles...

That's the problem with the Free State idea. There are folks all over who like the idea, but don't want to live there, whether it's the climate (like me) or being trapped behind "enemy" lines.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:25 am

I can understand what the concerns are about living in NE. For years it was a part of my plan to stay the heck away from that neck of the woods and had been reinforced after a week long trip to Mass. Then I had heard about Maine and, well, just how empty most of it actually is. Then New Hampshire and what seems to be their dedication to the "Live Free or Die" political attitude. And I thought maybe I'm not looking at everything. I know it is deep (and cut off) behind enemy lines. But that is part of the reason why I ask. The wife is thinks about the possibilities of leaving near(ish) to the ocean. The views and access to fresh seafood and everything. That an some good hospitals should the need arise in later years. Here is some of the things that I think of, and maybe some folks can help straighten me out where I'm wrong about living is certain other parts of the county.

West coast (Other side of the Rockies): Well, just no thanks. I know that there are some good places in Easter WA and Oregon, but too close to Cali. Just don't think I could get past that. But Maybe I'm wrong there too maybe WA and OR would be no worse than NH or ME.

South West: Too hot/dry not enough trees. I know there is the mountains, but when I think of them I think of the mountains like in west Texas. Those that just look dry and windblown.

Most of the Midwest is just too flat. I live in the Ozarks and I need hill/mountain tops to navigate by. We went through Iowa and northern MO on a trip to WI year before last and I could go my entire life without see that much flat again. Like WI though. Friendly folks and in the hill county looked like around here for the most part. But man when they get cold in winter it is very cold.

The Southeast is just out. I don't get enough winter in northern Arkansas, further south isn't the answer.

Could afford to even talk about Alaska and the wife wouldn't go for that anyway.

I know I suffer from a major setback of not having been to a good number of these places (yet). Most of the info I have ran across consist of weather conditions from Weatherbase.com and just looking up pictures of certain locations regions on Google images. I know that isn't perfect, but that's what I've got right now. I also am sure that some of what I said above is not completely fair. I mean it looks like there are some interesting places in the SW. But it still seems dry from what I've read. That and the stories I've heard about illegal immigrants crossing through some area like geese bother me.

So why move from where I am other than the winter issue? For one the biggest town near me is Springfield MO. with it's 150k population. That is pretty darn big to me. And it's going to heck in a handbag, frankly. Pretty good hospitals though. But where I live Harrison Arkansas is the largest nearby population center. Approximately 15k. The town offers little more than a WalMart and a bunch of bad places to eat (it's a "dry" county to boot). It's hospital is the last thing you would ever want to see and that is a coincidence, because if you were in a bad way and brought there, it would be the last thing you saw. The local doctors don't go there or send those they like there. And the place is being taken over by people from Cali, Chicago, and other such places. Our housing is way cheaper than theirs and they think we are all a bunch of hicks than can rough ride over with how they use to do it elsewhere and stuff like that. And on top of all that we seem to be going through a real population boom of scum. Meth heads and the like just seem to be popping up ever where. Nice swimming holes have become place where people get shot when a drug deal goes bad at night and kids can't go there during the day because of the broken bottles, trash and everything left behind but that ilk.

So I guess I'd say I'm looking for ideas I haven't thought of.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:49 pm

Flagstaff isn't too bad. It's at 7000 feet, pretty woods and mountains, and I've never been there when it was over 90. My Dad has lived there for 30 years, having moved from the much hotter Phoenix/Mesa/Apache Junction region down South. He likes it, but you'll shovel your share of snow in the Winter. My Dad's line is...."I look out my back window and I see Paradise, and I look out my front window and I see Hell." Referring of course to the snow he has to shovel off the front drive/walkway. You do have crime/drugs there...but the crackdown on illegal immigration has helped some of the crime.

Western Montana sounds very nice. Southwest Colorado is beautiful, but where to find work and afford a house?

I think places like Oregon need all the non-liberals they can get, and their children, and their children.......

You could drive to the beach, and there is nothing like that Pacific Coast line.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:50 pm

Isn't Pheonix #1 on the list of "Most active Kidnappings in the US" right now... with the majority of those being adult/ransom/MS13/Drug kidnappings?

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:39 am

In the 1990's, I visited New England and Upstate NY several times, and wondered about retiring up there; that is some truly beautiful country, but cost of real estate and cost of living, including taxes, nipped that idea in the bud, especially when combined with the firearms laws. Crossing state lines up there is like crossing county lines here in Texas. I remember driving along one highway that crossed multiple times from NH to Mass due to the land contours. A somewhat mitigating factor is that New England states tend to issue handgun permits to non-residents, but then, there is still the "enemy country" of NY to deal with. There is now the LEOSA in effect, so I can carry a handgun just about anywhere in the USA, but that is just for active and retired peace officers, and I am not real confident it will stand the test of time.

If I just had to have winter, I would look into higher elevations in the South. I have seen snow in shady spots along the Blue Ridge in mid-April, though that may have been after a particularly cold winter.

Of course, as Texas is encroached upon by the troubles of Mexico, I may not so much appreciate the low cost of living down here. The Dakotas are starting to look better all the time.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:30 am

I am surprised to hear that about Phoenix O.I., for someone who has lived here for the last 27 years; if what you say is valid, I do not feel the impact of that.
I am leaving because I retired and the town has gotten too large.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:11 pm

gunslinger598 wrote:It's nt to bad right here in S E Oklahoma. There are times I wish I was in bigger country with a wider variety of game hunting. As far as cheap living, decent gusn laws, etc it just not to bad here. Hotter than heck in the summer, but not to cold in the winter.

Hush. Do not come to Oklahoma. It's a terrible place.

I have five acres up in the Kiamichi Wilderness and hope to start building my cabin next year when I bring my wife down from Canada.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:38 am

O.I.,
You wrote about Phoenix being the kidnap capitol of the U.S.
I said I was surprised by this, todays sunday paper has an article confirming your assertion.
It is for the reasons you stated, I guess I do not feel as I am not in the circle of travelers.
And confined to the usual parts of town.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:23 pm

For some of us we need to factor in travel costs too! I know my wife wont move where I'd like to be when we retire, because we'd spend a ton of extra money coming back to visit the grandchildren!

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:45 pm

The NE USA would be wonderful, particularly NY IF and ONLY IF you could clear the unblessed liberals from the area. That would reduce the population to about 10% of what it is currently and make living there palatable.

I got chewed out on the Adirondack board because I said I would not live in NY with the laws it has, the politicians it has, and the taxes it has. I meant it. It is a big reason why I live here in VA. I should add that I do so despite having had family in NY since before the 1600s.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:44 am

I picked where I live based on 3 criteria 1. how crowded it can get 2. Snow country and cold 3. the availability to use the land to survive. I live in a county that is only 14% private land and 7% of that is private timber companies the snow gets deep and it can get cold and pilgrims dont like the winters here, plenty of animals and fish to eat plus I can grow the basic foods to get along. Theres more firewood than the military could use and my water is gravity fed. I saddle up and in 400 yds Iam on public land to hunt,fish or whatever. The only problem I have is Iam rearend deep in predators for raising stock (bears, cats and wolves) and as a wildlife expert said predators that bother stock & people are lacking a trace mineral in their system, lead. danny

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:50 am

I know where you are coming from, private enclave in the middle National forest & BLM, plenty of wild life, gravity fed water ( sealed underground spring ) don't have the predator problem you describe.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:55 am

I have been blessed with the opportunity to travel to every state in our nation with the exception of Oregon and Hawaii. When I worked as a public school teacher I would take my camping supplies, a big bore revolver and a TC Contender in a varmint caliber, fill up the gas tank and head West. I'd come back weeks later after spending time in many states. I have an idea of some ideal locations as well as the pros and cons of living in each state.

This post that I intend to make will be exceptionally long and it will have to be done when I have some time later today . I 'll have to write it on a document then paste it. One thing I am concerned about is that I tend to be blunt and I may upset some people with what I have to say. Some people may be offended if I make a negative statement about the state they call home and would defend it to the death. But I will take my chances and be as tactful as possible. Also bear in mind that my perspective comes from living in a location and having been raised with a set of values and cultural customs that may clash with others.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:04 am

Fire away! I'm looking forward to hearing what you say. There is nothing you could say about where I live that would upset me. If you did say it was the best place to live in the US I think I would get depressed though.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:30 am

Personally if I could pick anywhere it would be either Vermont or Alaska.
Far as I can see they are the only two that actually recognize gun ownership as an civil right equal to all others. The rest allow you to have & use guns but feel very free to limit them at will.
Theres also plenty of open hunting land in each. Many very gun friendly states have virtually no place to hunt if your not wealthy or connected.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:17 pm

Leverdude
Montana has some of the best laws concerning firearms on par with Alaska you can carry concealed in a vehicle anywhere you can carry concealed on person except in a incorporated city then you have to carry open, you can carry concealed when hunting includes bow hunting and any type of recreation and if you run afowl of the law the you can get your gun rights reinstated, plus the Montana Constitution has listed that guns for protection is a right and hunting is a right. Its been years since there was a carjacking in the state and then it was a tourista. When Iam hunting and hauling stock and go thru town and am carrying I have never had a problem with the cops or store owners in my home town or abroad. danny

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:20 pm

Double post sorry. danny

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:16 pm

Well. Where do I start? Lets see. Looking back in my life I have been blessed with a plethora of opportunities to meet many different people, see different sights and have many different experiences. I sit here eating my supper as I type this out and I have a touch of melancholy as I think of what to say about the states I have had experiences in . I am usure of the future. It would be nice to be able to travel as I once did but my life has taken a different route with different rewards. So I will attempt to put down my opinions on the good, the bad and the ugly of all the states I have visited over the many years of travel. I will also add my observations regarding the interest of one person who was thinking of retirement. There are some beautiful places I have been to. I have absolutely fallen in love with them. I'd drop everything and move there but there is one bug in the ointment. What would I do for an income? I know all of us to a great extent would love a place in the middle of nowhere but realistically how would you be able to obtain the necessities? In addition, if you are married or have a significant other, how would they react. I'll provide some stories which will bring that home.

All of you know, or at least I think you do, that I live in the state of Massachusetts. The land of the evil Kennedys. The home of corrupt congressional redistricting called Gerrymandering, named in honor of an early representive named Elbridge Gerry, the home of Boston Mayor and later Governor Curley who ran the affairs of this state from his prison cell in Danbury Connecticut. Needless to say it is not all too gun friendly. But I will admit I have been fortunate to not have a big problem. Much of this nonsense is the result of the gun laws placing a lot of the power in the hands of local law enforcement. I lived in a town where the chief of police was pretty open minded and would issue a license to carry without any restrictions . The big problem would be mostly in some towns and most medium to large cities. There the rules tend to get muddy. Licenses to carry get restrictive and you will get a hassle trying to obtain one. Hunting in the Bay State is rather unusual when compared to many parts of the country. This state is a shotgun state for deer. The legal implements for deer hunting are shotguns with slugs or buckshot, muzzleloading rifles and archery. Handguns and centerfire rifles can be used for small game , black bear and varmints. As an example I have shot pheasants with my 22 revolver on some occasions. The rule of thumb with private land is that if it is unposted it is open to hunting. Granted there are about fifty towns with special regulations such as written permission by landowner but most of the state isn't like that. I grew up when unposted land and free access was the norm. In addition, leasing doesn't exist in Massachusetts. So in most places you either are able to hunt or not. I suspect this tradition dates back to the Common Laws of 1640 when the Puritains decreed that all waterfront shall be free to all to fish, shellfish and fowl. That is why you could own a huge beachfront estate on Cape Cod and I could walk in front of it on the shore below the high tide mark and fish all day. Legally you could not do a thing. If you tried something illegally you'ld have a brand worse that what Hester Prynn had emblazened on her chest. One thing caught my eye the other day. My Dad had some surgery done recently in Worcester at the St. Vincent's Hospital UMASS Medical Center. A bill board proclaimed that they are no 1 in heart attack survival in New England. If you have medical issues areas such as Massachusetts has some of the finest medical facilities in the world. One of the big negatives is the price of housing and property. It is one of the highest in the nation. I don't want to go into detail but you can Google,"William Ravies" and look at his site for prices of New England real estate in Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island. I talked with a friend who is from Texas . We met in college while he was stationed at Ft.Devens in north-central Massachusetst and we studied to become teachers. He is near the border and teaching near his hometown. We chat occasionally and we'll commiserate from time to time. I asked him about the economy and the cultural situation regarding the prices of living and how difficult it is for people to get ahead. He made probably the most cogent observation yet regarding the situation in Southern New England. Unless you we're born into a family with connections and property it is very difficult to get a start. As an example, I inhereted my house from my grandparents. Looking at it I know for a fact that I could not afford to buy it as a home. I'll hazard a guess that to live well in this area a couple has to be making a joint income of at least 60K or so.

I live close to the state of Connecticut and have hunted it for many years. I would rate it to be the best in New England for deer hunting. Success rates on private land with the rifle are close to 30% . Most New England states are in the 10-% or less range. The hitch is getting that elusive written permission. It is very hard to get and to hold. I have been very lucky in having three or four places to hunt with the bow and gun. As a rule I take three or four deer a year and most are from Connecticut. Land prices are increasing as people from NYC are discovering the "Quiet Corner" as northeastern Connecticut is called. Needless to say there are some cultural clashes with traditional agrarian communities and the newcomers. One good thing is that Connecticut is a shall issue state. As long as you take an approved safety course and you have a clean record you will be issued a permit to carry pistols and revolvers. As you get closer to the coast, the price of real estate increases significantly and the amount of open land decreases. As I have stated before, it can be hard to get written permission to hunt deer or turkey in the Nutmeg State.

My fiance, Mary comes from the Ocean State. That is Rhode Island. I'll go on record that she is the best thing to come out of the state, at least in my eyes. Rhode Island is the smallest state and has many unique attributes, attractions and detractions to it. Right off the bat , Rhode Island is economically depressed. Ok. No marvel of knowledge there but it has the second highest unemployment rate in the nation. Unfortunately I don't see it getting better. Rhode Island has had a tradition of corruption for many years. Although the state has been called the Ocean State the other nickname has been the Mafia State. It rather well known that Federal Hill in Providence pulls more strings than the State House. I know I stepped on some toes with that statement. If you think Massachusetts gun laws are bad, Rhode Island is worse. Unless you know someone well, you will not get a permit to carry concealed. In Rhode Island there are approximately 4000 permits out there in a population of slightly over one million. It is easier to get a license to carry without restrictions in Massachusetts than in Rhode Island. Hunting in this state is rather poor. I have hunted from Florida to Alaska. Maine to New Mexico and many other places. I'll go on record as stating the worst hunting I have experienced was in the Ocean State. Again I hunted state land as I did not have access to private land. You need written permission on private land for deer. Verbal permission is all that is needed for small game and turkey. I saw very little game and ran into other hunters with a bad attitude. Needless to say I will not hunt this state ever again. Rhode Island is another shotgun state. You can hunt deer with a shotgun, muzzleloader and bow. Handgun hunting of any kind is forbidden. You can only target shoot with them. One thing I noticed regarding the medical situation is that I believe the care is sub par compared to what I have experienced in Massachusetts. Mary's father was sent by ambulence to Woonsocket Hospital rather than to a hospital closer in the state of Massachusetts. To make a long story short, I would not let my cat go to Woonsocket. Dirty and unorganized. One of the things you'll notice in Rhode Island is that the people in small towns tend to be more clannish and tight knit. For a year or more I was "that guy from Massachusetts" to the locals in town.

If you travel north you reach the states of Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. All three states are diverse and have unique qualities to them. I have traveled all over those states as well as hunted them for deer, bear and moose. I also forgot small game.

The state motto for Maine is Vacationland. Many people from all over New England flock to Maine during the summer months to hit the typical beaches such as Old Orchard Beach south of Portland. Maine can be divided into a number of geographic regions. The southernmost part is the most populated and expensive to live in. It is also where the most job are found. Ironically it is also home to the largest number of deer and turkey in the state. Many hunters talk about going north to Maine each November but most go to the central or northern part of the state. You will find miles and miles of forest that is open to hunting but the winters are severe and last winter half the deer herd perished in the snows. So hunting is rather poor when you go far north. Land is cheap , taxes are low or almost non existant. The job situation is very dismal. It is hard to make a living and many people are on some sort of assistance. A sad fact of life but it is true. Maine is a shall issue state and there are few restrictions regarding firearms. There is a biggie and that is no Sunday hunting. In fact if you are found in the woods with a firearm on Sunday you are by primae facae evidant, hunting on Sunday. If you have a permit to carry concealed you can carry a handgun in the woods on Sunday. I remember when I hunted in the sleepy town of Jackman. I've always fantasized that if I won Powerball I'd buy some acreage in that area and call it an early retirement. Be a woodsbum, so to speak. I chatted with the local game warden Rodney and I asked him about the area. I commented that I would love to live up here but I don't know if I could fit in as I am an outsider. He remarked that most people in town are outsiders. He said the two biggest reason that people move out are due to winter and the lack of amenities. Many men who take their wives to this area will be out in five years. Winter comes two weeks early and stays two weeks later. The nearest shopping mall is a seventy mile drive south towards Skowhegan or north into Quebec at St. George. I know that there were many jokes made about Maine winters and there is a grain of truth to them. Winters can be long and cold. Also very snowy. If I lived in Maine I would make sure I had a snowmobile. The whole state opens up to you in the winter.

New Hampshire is a varied state. From south to north the population decreases as well as the temperature. The White Mountains has some wonderful vistas and opportunities for the hunter and nature lover. As a child many summer vacations were spent in the White Mountains. My father and grandfather hunted the White Mountains for deer religiously each fall. They did well and as a rule got their one deer per year. That was the limit then.I like New Hampshire. It is a shall issue state and much of the land you see is open to hunting. Again there is that open land tradition. Real estate can vary. It used to be cheap but many people have moved or had bought land in New Hampshire as well as Vermont thus driving up th price. You can Google the site NNEREN which is a network of MLS listings . You can see the prices and property taxes. One caveat regarding New Hampshire taxes. As a rule the property tax is low if there is nothing on the property. The moment you build the taxes go way up. New Hampshire has no sales tax nor a state income tax. So they have to get money from somewhere. Property taxes are the number one source of revenue for the state followed by taxes on liquor,tobacco and gambling. Right now the job market is tight but if you have a retirement income it isn't a bad place. Southern New Hampshire has more deer while the northern part is much more sparse. In fact the northernmost zone, A, now has antler restrictions to boost the herd. Again, winter is harsh.

Vermont is somewhat similar to New Hampshire in size but has a different culture. It is more libertarian and open. Vermont has one of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation. You can carry concealed without a permit. Personally the whole nation should be like that but I don't think it will happen. Winter tourism plays heavy in the economy and many people from NY moved in. The result is higher prices for property and taxes have increased. Many life long Vermonters are being pushed out of their communities due to the burden of tax. Many older folks on a fixed income now have to move out of their familial homes due to this situation. It is sad to see. As a teenager I hunted Vermont for deer and turkey. Although I was unsuccessful my father and his friend did get deer. All of them with the bow but not the gun. At the time it was bucks only and it was hard to get a deer but archery was either sex. Greater opportunitiy. I have fond memories of hunting the Castleton area on Ward Hill as a teenager with my dad. We would go up friday night after school with the truck camper and four hours later set up for the night. I can hear the howl of coyotes off of Bird's Eye serenading me right now. The cold clear air of fall. Bow in hand. Hmm. Odd. The screen is a tad blurry. Still. I would not mind being in Vermont. It is a beautiful state although there are cultural changes. The whole gay marraige thing has tainted the image of the stoic Vermonter. Bear in mind that these are from people on the outside and don't mirror the values of traditional Vermont.

I'll post more about other states I have been to later. Right now I am a tad tired and need to think about the next states.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:24 am

BigSky56 wrote:Leverdude
Montana has some of the best laws concerning firearms on par with Alaska you can carry concealed in a vehicle anywhere you can carry concealed on person except in a incorporated city then you have to carry open, you can carry concealed when hunting includes bow hunting and any type of recreation and if you run afowl of the law the you can get your gun rights reinstated, plus the Montana Constitution has listed that guns for protection is a right and hunting is a right. Its been years since there was a carjacking in the state and then it was a tourista. When Iam hunting and hauling stock and go thru town and am carrying I have never had a problem with the cops or store owners in my home town or abroad. danny

Montana looks good & theres ALOT of open space. But they do have laws, VT & Alaska dont. Do you need a permit to carry concealed? Just about all of the states say guns are rights, then they make you pay for permits & other things you dont need to pray or talk.
What I really like about Montana is the willingness to rebuff the feds. I was in a bit of a foul mood yesterday, there are certainly other places suitable & acceptable, but no laws at all sure sounds great.
Open, conceled, in your car, in your pocket, on school property, around your neck on a string. If you can buy it you can do what you want with it until you commit a real crime. Simply having a gun on your person is not commiting a crime anywhere, yet 48 states have laws against it. Not all vehemently prosecute but the laws are there.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:36 am

bigbore442001 wrote:Well. Where do I start? Lets see. Looking back in my life I have been blessed with a plethora of opportunities to meet many different people, see different sights and have many different experiences. I sit here eating my supper as I type this out and I have a touch of melancholy as I think of what to say about the states I have had experiences in . I am usure of the future. It would be nice to be able to travel as I once did but my life has taken a different route with different rewards. So I will attempt to put down my opinions on the good, the bad and the ugly of all the states I have visited over the many years of travel. I will also add my observations regarding the interest of one person who was thinking of retirement. There are some beautiful places I have been to. I have absolutely fallen in love with them. I'd drop everything and move there but there is one bug in the ointment. What would I do for an income? I know all of us to a great extent would love a place in the middle of nowhere but realistically how would you be able to obtain the necessities? In addition, if you are married or have a significant other, how would they react. I'll provide some stories which will bring that home.

All of you know, or at least I think you do, that I live in the state of Massachusetts. The land of the evil Kennedys. The home of corrupt congressional redistricting called Gerrymandering, named in honor of an early representive named Elbridge Gerry, the home of Boston Mayor and later Governor Curley who ran the affairs of this state from his prison cell in Danbury Connecticut. Needless to say it is not all too gun friendly. But I will admit I have been fortunate to not have a big problem. Much of this nonsense is the result of the gun laws placing a lot of the power in the hands of local law enforcement. I lived in a town where the chief of police was pretty open minded and would issue a license to carry without any restrictions . The big problem would be mostly in some towns and most medium to large cities. There the rules tend to get muddy. Licenses to carry get restrictive and you will get a hassle trying to obtain one. Hunting in the Bay State is rather unusual when compared to many parts of the country. This state is a shotgun state for deer. The legal implements for deer hunting are shotguns with slugs or buckshot, muzzleloading rifles and archery. Handguns and centerfire rifles can be used for small game , black bear and varmints. As an example I have shot pheasants with my 22 revolver on some occasions. The rule of thumb with private land is that if it is unposted it is open to hunting. Granted there are about fifty towns with special regulations such as written permission by landowner but most of the state isn't like that. I grew up when unposted land and free access was the norm. In addition, leasing doesn't exist in Massachusetts. So in most places you either are able to hunt or not. I suspect this tradition dates back to the Common Laws of 1640 when the Puritains decreed that all waterfront shall be free to all to fish, shellfish and fowl. That is why you could own a huge beachfront estate on Cape Cod and I could walk in front of it on the shore below the high tide mark and fish all day. Legally you could not do a thing. If you tried something illegally you'ld have a brand worse that what Hester Prynn had emblazened on her chest. One thing caught my eye the other day. My Dad had some surgery done recently in Worcester at the St. Vincent's Hospital UMASS Medical Center. A bill board proclaimed that they are no 1 in heart attack survival in New England. If you have medical issues areas such as Massachusetts has some of the finest medical facilities in the world. One of the big negatives is the price of housing and property. It is one of the highest in the nation. I don't want to go into detail but you can Google,"William Ravies" and look at his site for prices of New England real estate in Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island. I talked with a friend who is from Texas . We met in college while he was stationed at Ft.Devens in north-central Massachusetst and we studied to become teachers. He is near the border and teaching near his hometown. We chat occasionally and we'll commiserate from time to time. I asked him about the economy and the cultural situation regarding the prices of living and how difficult it is for people to get ahead. He made probably the most cogent observation yet regarding the situation in Southern New England. Unless you we're born into a family with connections and property it is very difficult to get a start. As an example, I inhereted my house from my grandparents. Looking at it I know for a fact that I could not afford to buy it as a home. I'll hazard a guess that to live well in this area a couple has to be making a joint income of at least 60K or so.

I live close to the state of Connecticut and have hunted it for many years. I would rate it to be the best in New England for deer hunting. Success rates on private land with the rifle are close to 30% . Most New England states are in the 10-% or less range. The hitch is getting that elusive written permission. It is very hard to get and to hold. I have been very lucky in having three or four places to hunt with the bow and gun. As a rule I take three or four deer a year and most are from Connecticut. Land prices are increasing as people from NYC are discovering the "Quiet Corner" as northeastern Connecticut is called. Needless to say there are some cultural clashes with traditional agrarian communities and the newcomers. One good thing is that Connecticut is a shall issue state. As long as you take an approved safety course and you have a clean record you will be issued a permit to carry pistols and revolvers. As you get closer to the coast, the price of real estate increases significantly and the amount of open land decreases. As I have stated before, it can be hard to get written permission to hunt deer or turkey in the Nutmeg State.

My fiance, Mary comes from the Ocean State. That is Rhode Island. I'll go on record that she is the best thing to come out of the state, at least in my eyes. Rhode Island is the smallest state and has many unique attributes, attractions and detractions to it. Right off the bat , Rhode Island is economically depressed. Ok. No marvel of knowledge there but it has the second highest unemployment rate in the nation. Unfortunately I don't see it getting better. Rhode Island has had a tradition of corruption for many years. Although the state has been called the Ocean State the other nickname has been the Mafia State. It rather well known that Federal Hill in Providence pulls more strings than the State House. I know I stepped on some toes with that statement. If you think Massachusetts gun laws are bad, Rhode Island is worse. Unless you know someone well, you will not get a permit to carry concealed. In Rhode Island there are approximately 4000 permits out there in a population of slightly over one million. It is easier to get a license to carry without restrictions in Massachusetts than in Rhode Island. Hunting in this state is rather poor. I have hunted from Florida to Alaska. Maine to New Mexico and many other places. I'll go on record as stating the worst hunting I have experienced was in the Ocean State. Again I hunted state land as I did not have access to private land. You need written permission on private land for deer. Verbal permission is all that is needed for small game and turkey. I saw very little game and ran into other hunters with a bad attitude. Needless to say I will not hunt this state ever again. Rhode Island is another shotgun state. You can hunt deer with a shotgun, muzzleloader and bow. Handgun hunting of any kind is forbidden. You can only target shoot with them. One thing I noticed regarding the medical situation is that I believe the care is sub par compared to what I have experienced in Massachusetts. Mary's father was sent by ambulence to Woonsocket Hospital rather than to a hospital closer in the state of Massachusetts. To make a long story short, I would not let my cat go to Woonsocket. Dirty and unorganized. One of the things you'll notice in Rhode Island is that the people in small towns tend to be more clannish and tight knit. For a year or more I was "that guy from Massachusetts" to the locals in town.

If you travel north you reach the states of Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. All three states are diverse and have unique qualities to them. I have traveled all over those states as well as hunted them for deer, bear and moose. I also forgot small game.

The state motto for Maine is Vacationland. Many people from all over New England flock to Maine during the summer months to hit the typical beaches such as Old Orchard Beach south of Portland. Maine can be divided into a number of geographic regions. The southernmost part is the most populated and expensive to live in. It is also where the most job are found. Ironically it is also home to the largest number of deer and turkey in the state. Many hunters talk about going north to Maine each November but most go to the central or northern part of the state. You will find miles and miles of forest that is open to hunting but the winters are severe and last winter half the deer herd perished in the snows. So hunting is rather poor when you go far north. Land is cheap , taxes are low or almost non existant. The job situation is very dismal. It is hard to make a living and many people are on some sort of assistance. A sad fact of life but it is true. Maine is a shall issue state and there are few restrictions regarding firearms. There is a biggie and that is no Sunday hunting. In fact if you are found in the woods with a firearm on Sunday you are by primae facae evidant, hunting on Sunday. If you have a permit to carry concealed you can carry a handgun in the woods on Sunday. I remember when I hunted in the sleepy town of Jackman. I've always fantasized that if I won Powerball I'd buy some acreage in that area and call it an early retirement. Be a woodsbum, so to speak. I chatted with the local game warden Rodney and I asked him about the area. I commented that I would love to live up here but I don't know if I could fit in as I am an outsider. He remarked that most people in town are outsiders. He said the two biggest reason that people move out are due to winter and the lack of amenities. Many men who take their wives to this area will be out in five years. Winter comes two weeks early and stays two weeks later. The nearest shopping mall is a seventy mile drive south towards Skowhegan or north into Quebec at St. George. I know that there were many jokes made about Maine winters and there is a grain of truth to them. Winters can be long and cold. Also very snowy. If I lived in Maine I would make sure I had a snowmobile. The whole state opens up to you in the winter.

New Hampshire is a varied state. From south to north the population decreases as well as the temperature. The White Mountains has some wonderful vistas and opportunities for the hunter and nature lover. As a child many summer vacations were spent in the White Mountains. My father and grandfather hunted the White Mountains for deer religiously each fall. They did well and as a rule got their one deer per year. That was the limit then.I like New Hampshire. It is a shall issue state and much of the land you see is open to hunting. Again there is that open land tradition. Real estate can vary. It used to be cheap but many people have moved or had bought land in New Hampshire as well as Vermont thus driving up th price. You can Google the site NNEREN which is a network of MLS listings . You can see the prices and property taxes. One caveat regarding New Hampshire taxes. As a rule the property tax is low if there is nothing on the property. The moment you build the taxes go way up. New Hampshire has no sales tax nor a state income tax. So they have to get money from somewhere. Property taxes are the number one source of revenue for the state followed by taxes on liquor,tobacco and gambling. Right now the job market is tight but if you have a retirement income it isn't a bad place. Southern New Hampshire has more deer while the northern part is much more sparse. In fact the northernmost zone, A, now has antler restrictions to boost the herd. Again, winter is harsh.

Vermont is somewhat similar to New Hampshire in size but has a different culture. It is more libertarian and open. Vermont has one of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation. You can carry concealed without a permit. Personally the whole nation should be like that but I don't think it will happen. Winter tourism plays heavy in the economy and many people from NY moved in. The result is higher prices for property and taxes have increased. Many life long Vermonters are being pushed out of their communities due to the burden of tax. Many older folks on a fixed income now have to move out of their familial homes due to this situation. It is sad to see. As a teenager I hunted Vermont for deer and turkey. Although I was unsuccessful my father and his friend did get deer. All of them with the bow but not the gun. At the time it was bucks only and it was hard to get a deer but archery was either sex. Greater opportunitiy. I have fond memories of hunting the Castleton area on Ward Hill as a teenager with my dad. We would go up friday night after school with the truck camper and four hours later set up for the night. I can hear the howl of coyotes off of Bird's Eye serenading me right now. The cold clear air of fall. Bow in hand. Hmm. Odd. The screen is a tad blurry. Still. I would not mind being in Vermont. It is a beautiful state although there are cultural changes. The whole gay marraige thing has tainted the image of the stoic Vermonter. Bear in mind that these are from people on the outside and don't mirror the values of traditional Vermont.

I'll post more about other states I have been to later. Right now I am a tad tired and need to think about the next states.

I agree with most of that but CT is NOT a shall issue state. The NRA calls it one & you will generally get a permit if you dont have a record but theres a thing in the regulations that says the issueing authority must find you are a "suitable person" to have a permit with no guidlines to what a suitable person is. Most folks would figure a person who passes a course & has no disqualifying convictions would be suitable but thats not always the case. The issueing authority is the chief of police of first selectman & ocasionally they let personal prejudices influence their decision. Fortunately we do have recourse in the "Board of firearms permit examiners" or something like that to whome you can appeal your case & if unjustified the denial can be reversed. Course thats liable to require a lawyer & alot of time.
Its not bad, but has potential. Thats what I look at alot. VT is great because they need to have drastic change just to catch up with most of America in gun control. They just need a fence across the bottom & western borders.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:49 am

bigbore442001 - I appreciate your insights and look forward to reading more. I'm going to have the wife read this later.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:02 pm

Ok. Here is New York State.

As I sit here I am thinking of the trip I took last summer with Mary to the Empire State. This isn’t the first time I spent time in New York but it was a first for my Rhode Island girl. We stayed in the Herkimer area looking for the famous “diamonds” that are found in the southern edge of the Adirondacks. I was able to explore the region as well as the Cooperstown and Onieda Lake area. I will also recall way back when I bowhunted in upstate NY near Germantown and Austerlitz.
I am impressed with the opportunities and the feel for a lack of a better term in upstate NY. The area has a plethora of state land for hunting and from what I gather by asking permission on private land wasn’t too difficult to obtain. We saw a plethora of deer, turkey and had a bobcat run across the road in front of the car. I could envision myself hunting here. When I hunted at the age of 19 we obtained permission on two farms. It was funny in that one was owned by a rich lawyer and he lived with this trophy girlfriend. His ex wife lived next door. I suspect he gave us permission to hunt so we’d upset his ex wife. Maybe I am wrong but that is what I gathered. We also met a local young man just getting into bowhunting who took our advice and in returned obtained permission for dad and I on 1400 acres of land. The doors opened up. It was beautiful and we saw game. No luck getting any deer but not due to the lack of game. Archery is tough. The shot has to be just right to connect. The ‘just right “ shots weren’t there. One bad thing we did notice was that there was a lot of posted land in some areas. As a rule near the state line with Massachusetts because many hunters would flock on Sunday to someplace close to home to hunt. Here in Massachusetts you can’t hunt on Sunday.
The downside to upstate NY like many northeastern cities is that they are the political slaves of the major metropolitan areas. The classic case of the tail wagging the dog is the rule. The biggest issue with NY state is the draconian Sullivan Laws i.e. their handgun permit system. I chatted with a couple people at a sporting chain, , and they stated that the state legislature has put a cap on any concealed carry permits and getting sporting permits are hard to get. There is a long wait for the permit and the gun you own is registered on the permit itself. This information contradicts what one small guns hop owner who said if you lived in this area you would not have a problem getting one. Again I am not sure if that applies to concealed carry . Again the reputation is that the big cities are pressuring judges to not issue. That is the story I was told so if anyone else has contrary information then be free to correct me. I had a friend who lived in NYS near Buffalo for five years. They played the game of ,”we lost the application for your permit to carry. Can you fill out another? “ You have to have lived in one location for a year before they would review your application. One thing that he told me regarding the hunting situation was that unlike southern New England where you have a variety of game the area he was in was very game specific. An area that was good for deer was also poor for say ruffed grouse, etc.
The other downside is that the area seems to be economically depressed. Work is hard to come by. We drove through some towns on the shoreline of Lake Ontario and it looked like a scene from a post apocalyptic movie. Some towns looked abandoned by humanity. Doors boarded up, windows on storefronts broken etc. A sad situation. It seems that the problem is that in this area many people rely on a large company such as GE to employ them. When they leave, so doesn’t the money. There isn’t a buffer of any kind such as a variety of small businesses that can absorb the shock to the economy that you have in parts of southern New England. It seems that there are a few wealthy people for a larger number of working poor.
You will see a lot of land for sale in upstate NY. What I have been told is that the tax system is somewhat harsh and you can get taxed to death on some properties based on a few conditions such as road frontage, school and fire tax.
One thing that is nice is the nature of the people I have met. They have that small town attitude that they look out for one another. I see that in NW Rhode Island. It is refreshing when compared to the urban cutthroat attitude that I have experienced. We saw a lot of farmer’s markets and gatherings in small town squares. People seemed to be a bit more vibrant that back home in southern New England. There seems to be more of a social malaise in Southern New England when compared to other parts of the nation. The people that seemed to be most vibrant were those I met in Alaska but that will be another post down the road.
New York is a big state. The weather can vary tremendously based on the locale. The area around the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Valley usually get pummeled with snow and frigid weather. If you can’t take the cold don’t bother moving there. Again, like Maine, if I lived here I would be the owner of a good trail snowmobile.

I have traveled to the southern portion as well as NYC. To be honest I don't mind making a visit once a year or so but that is it. I would not want to nor could I afford to live there. The only reason I have been to NYC is to audition for the gameshow," Who Wants to be a Millioniare" . Interesting to say the least.

Pennsylvania:

Ahh. That brings back some fond memories. My first deer shot with the bow and arrow when I was 17 years old in Ulysses Pennsylvania. Right on the Tioga/Potter County line. I was impressed with the sportsman's culture that was prevelent in my youth in north central Pennsylvania. Camping at the Shir-Roy campground on the banks of Pine Creek. Trying to swim against the current and diving among the huge carp that hovered above the limestone bottom. Ok. Another teary eyed moment.

Pennsylvania has gone through some changes since I was there last. When I was a teenager deer were all over the place . When compared to Massachusetts it was a hunting paradise. We bowhunted on some large farms and had a wonderful time. Again the cultural climate made one feel at home. People didn't look at you as if you had two heads if you hunted. Deer were all over and there was a variety of other game to see. It was beautiful and I loved it.

I can't say much about the economy except from what I see and what other people have told me. Like many areas that depended on a single industry, they suffered when they left. Times can be tough for some people and jobs seem to be somewhat hard to get. There are a lot of small towns in the state and they seem to have that hometown feel as other places I have visited. One thing I have to point out is the real estate situation that blew my mind away when I became cognizant of it. I have looked at teaching jobs and unfortunately the greatest demand is in the urban hades of Philadelphia. When given the option, I'll stay put.

I know of a family that started a sporting goods shop in NW RI who were from Pennsylvania. The lady told me that in the mid to late 1800's the coal companies wrote the laws and basically own the entire state below twelve feet beneath the surface. Coal mine cave ins are common and she stated each day one person loses a home to such a situation. She stated that when you buy a house in PA you get a red paper that outlines this situation as a warning to the buyer. When I traveled across PA about two miles of road were collapsed due to this. Two years of 27/7 construction repaired it. I can't comment on real estate as I didn't look at the prices or anything of that nature.

Last time I visited the Keystone State we were in the Dutch Country. I like it but it too has seen changes. More suburbanization and the modern world has crept in. I sort of laughed to myself when I spotted a young Amish boy rollerblading on his cell phone. Since I am obsessed with hunting I querried as much as I could on that issue. I got the impression that in south central Pennsylvania a lot of the private land is posted whereas in the past it wasn't too bad. I did see a lot of posted signs. I have difficulty remembering any place I did not see a sign to keep out. To me that was a big turn off.

Pennsylvania is a shall issue state and at one time I had a non resident permit. Again you have that attitude of a sporting community in many areas.

Outside of what I have observed and stated I can't comment further on Pennsylvania.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:19 pm

Leverdude
You only need a permit if you carry concealed in a incorporated city, currently our legislators are changing the law to no permits needed you can carry concealed anywhere anytime and goes for any national parks within the state. danny

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:50 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Leverdude
You only need a permit if you carry concealed in a incorporated city, currently our legislators are changing the law to no permits needed you can carry concealed anywhere anytime and goes for any national parks within the state. danny

Thanks,

That'll make three that treat RKBA as a right. I hope its a trend!

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Leverdude wrote:[
That'll make three that treat RKBA as a right. I hope its a trend!

You mean all this time we've been able to open carry anywhere anytime, with exception to places that might have ordinances against it , doesn't make for a RTKBA

I suppose the part of the state constitution that declares all able bodied males over the age of 18 a member of the state militia is some sort of communist plot also

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:18 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
Leverdude wrote:[
That'll make three that treat RKBA as a right. I hope its a trend!
You mean all this time we've been able to open carry anywhere anytime, with exception to places that might have ordinances against it , doesn't make for a RTKBA
I suppose the part of the state constitution that declares all able bodied males over the age of 18 a member of the state militia is some sort of communist plot also

Thats federal law as well. Kinda strange, its against the law to obey the law. But thats how politics works. It doesn't.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:40 pm

[quote="Leverdude"]

Thats federal law as well. Kinda strange, its against the law to obey the law. But thats how politics works. It doesn't.

[/q

Somehow me thinks you're not quite up to speed on gunlaws in various states so pretty good.

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:22 pm

Pennsylvania is my native state, but for most of my life I have wanted to live "out where the states are square." In late 2007 my wife and I finally sold our home in Maryland (having moved there from the Pittsburgh area in 1988.) We moved to northern New Mexico where we have owned land for 12 years -- near Eagle Nest in the Moreno Valley between Cimarron and Taos at an elevation of 8300 feet. My brother lives there, and we stayed with him for 3 months, intending to build a home. We love the area, but as it turns out my wife was having a great deal of difficulty getting her blood pressure regulated. And because she had a heart attack in 2005, we decided it would be prudent to seek lower elevation. We considered Albuquerque, and this would have been fine for me. But my wife didn't feel comfortable there. So we next looked at the Pueblo, Colorado, area. Another brother and one of my nieces live in Pueblo West. We were astounded at the reasonable prices of houses, and the climate of the Arkansas River Valley is relatively mild compared to most places in Colorado. So we bought a house on one acre plus and moved here a year ago. We really love it. This winter we have had several snow falls that dropped a mere skiff and one other that gave us 3 inches. And the big solar snow shovel does all the work for you.

We have big views of the Wet Mountains to the west and southwest and of Pikes Peak to the north. We are a little over 100 miles from the NRA Whittington Center to the south near Raton, and we have several nice gun clubs nearby. And very important to us is that 30% of Colorado is public land. This the most important factor that would keep me from moving to Texas -- only 3% of the land is public in that state.

In truth, there are many places in the intermountain west where I could be very content, but I no longer delude myself by thinking that I would be happy enduring the rigors of a Rocky Mountain winter at elevation or at a latitude farther north.

We also love New Mexico, and we visit often. But we are very satisfied with Pueblo West and the Arkansas River Valley.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:08 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
Leverdude wrote:
Thats federal law as well. Kinda strange, its against the law to obey the law. But thats how politics works. It doesn't. [/q

Somehow me thinks you're not quite up to speed on gunlaws in various states so pretty good.

I'm not sure what you mean, Enlighten me.

I sure dont know everything about every state.
Are there more that only require you be alive & not a criminal to own & carry firearms as you see fit? Or were you talking about something else?
Open carry is fine, but if you need a permit to drop it in your pocket then they dont respect RKBA as a right, the same holds true if theres places in that state with ordinances against open carry.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:53 pm

I don't think there's any enlightenment can happen with someone who doesn't think Wyoming is a RKBA friendly state.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Don McDowell wrote: I don't think there's any enlightenment can happen with someone who doesn't think Wyoming is a RKBA friendly state.

I didn't know you were refering to Wyoming but that dont really matter.
I guess its all relative. Its relatively gun friendly, but to not admit theres better states is to deny reality. Unless I'm mistaken, & I sure could be, you need a permit to carry concealed in Wyoming.
While mild compared to many places it still constitutes infringment that would be unacceptable in regards to any other right. That being true its obviously not treated as a right but a privilege.

Perhaps you need enlightenment as to what exactly constitutes a right.

Its a great thing to be proud of your state & in this case you should be very proud! But dont let your pride blind you to the fact that if a little infringement is ok today, a bunch more might be ok in the future. I thought Wyoming had a state pre emption regarding gun control. If you dont you should push for it to close the loophole.

Anyway, if I could go anywhere I wanted it would be a state with zero gun control as long as such places still exist.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:42 pm

I am almost afraid to make a post about Texas.

In all honesty I enjoyed my visits to the Lone Star State but I am a snow lover.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:48 pm

bigbore442001 wrote:I am almost afraid to make a post about Texas. In all honesty I enjoyed my visits to the Lone Star State but I am a snow lover.

Hope its not because of me, I wasn't trying to discourage anything or anybody from doing whatever they want. Just explaining what would matter to me & why.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:44 am

One state that is intriguing is the Lone Star State. I have many mixed feelings about Texas from my observations and experiences. One of the things that stands out about Texas is the physical size and the geographic regions. All of my experience with Texas is basically with eastern and south Texas. The furthest west I have been in is around Eagle Pass and Leakey. Northeastern Texas is very 'southern" in culture. When you cross into the state from Arkansas you can't tell the difference without the signs. The land is relatively flat and it is interspersed with pine woods and pasture. The people are rather friendly .

I don't know how to put this nicely so I won't. There are some misconceptions regarding people in other parts of this nation of ours. A certain number of the people I work with in the field of education and human service are somewhat to the left and have the idea anyone who doesn't share their values must be Visigoths who eat raw meat and are generally uncouth. How I manage to stay in this field I don't know. I have heard the stories about how people in the South and Texas are "rednecks" , ad infinitum ad nauseum. I am a gadfly. When I hear such nonsense I let my opinions be known and it has probably cost me a job or two but that is what I am. I've never had problems with anyone in the state of Texas nor anywhere in all honesty outside of New England. Some people would conduct some light hearted teasing about me being from Massachusetts but after a beer or two and discussion many people are surprised and again never a problem. This was part of the reason I made a post regarding the zest for life in another thread. I found people outside of my home area have more of a life in varied experiences and activities than here. Anyways. Back to the topic.

Two things that bother me about Texas is the heat and the lack of free hunting as I know it. As I stated before the standard rule of land in much of New England is that if land is unposted it is open to hunting. As a rule I will ask the landowners and rarely have I been told I can't go on the property. There is some land that I go on that communually is known to be open land . That concept is completely foriegn in Texas. The vast majority of land in Texas is privately owned and generally you have to pay to hunt it in some way, shape or form. There is an old saying." When in Rome , do as the Romans do." Fee hunting is a fact of life in Texas and you will not change it. If you don't pay to hunt you can hunt the various public lands which I have been told gets pressured a lot. As in all markets, the rule is let the buyer beware. You can look at the San Antonio Express and read through the classifieds for day leases. Many smaller landowners will charge a trespass fee for feral hogs and the like for as little as 50 dollars a day. I have done this and have had bad experiences. In general the land seems to be shot out. I have done this a few times and I learned the hard way that it is a waste of money. If I plan to hunt Texas again I will do it with some place that has a good reputation. If I lived in Texas this is what I would like to do. I would go and pay for an exotic hunt to shoot something like a few feral hogs and or a bison. That would take care of the wild meat situation for my household. Then I would apply for any of the public land deer hunts for venison. I don't like the prices that are prevelent for deer. I might even take a vacation and go back home and hunt deer for free, so to speak. Outside of that, I'd try to see if I could hunt varmints for free to satisfy my desire to walk around in the wilds. I am not sure if this would work out. But if I did live in Texas that would be the plan.

As you travel further south on Route 35 you go from Dallas to Austin. Again the land is rather bucolic and somewhat flat. The land begins to change as you approach the eastern edge of the Edwards Plateau. You can see a whitish ridge to the west. The hills in this area rise to around 2500 feet or so. I have hunted a day lease in Leakey and had a lot of fun exploring although I saw nothing for shootable game. One thing I learned while there is that unless I could afford a couple hundred acres of land at minimum I would not own any land. I saw how many people bought twenty acre recreational lots bordering a large game ranch. The game ranch is erecting a high fence which will cut off any wildlife from traveling to the adjacent lands. So you may have had a nice hunting spot but now it will be a spot that you can twirl around in an ATV and have a campfire. That will be about it.

San Antonio is a large city and like all large cities it has it's problems. I had some fun with a close friend as we explored the city and saw all of the sights such as the Alamo and the Tower of the Americas. I would highly recommend someone to see it. Traveling south out of San Antonio you have small farm and ranch communities all the way to the border. Again it tends to be flat and brushy. I hunted in Cotulla once and saw nothing shootable. Again you have to be careful. The buyer beware rules again.

Texas is a shall issue state and has the castle doctrine. One other quirk of Texas law is that you can defend property so trespassers could get shot. What I don't like about this situation is could someone make an honest mistake while hunting? I know I have strayed without incident at home but would others in Texas be so forgiving in an honest mistake? I don't know and I suspect not.

The communities west of the San Antonio and between Del Rio are very nice and have a hometown feel to them.Uvalde, Sabinal , D'Hanis, Hondo, Leakey are nice. Hunting is very popular but again there is the pay to hunt issue.I hunted at one day lease in the area and got burned, so to speak. The land was shot out and I saw nothing but these large white faced hornets that would buzz me now and then. Granted the land is beautiful and I too a swim in the Rio Frio when it was hot, but I was hoping to take a couple of wild boar while there. I did see other game on fenced in areas. I know that they all had a price on their heads which I wasn't prepared to pay for at that time.

Summer in Texas is very hot and can be humid the further east you travel. I am a cold weather person and the heat kills me. I can handle it pretty well but I am not comfortable with it . I happen to like snow and you won't have it in south Texas.

As far as employment I can't really say. I have had a couple of interviews while I was there but didn't get the job. Maybe there was a reason for it. Anyways. Those are some of my experiences with Texas. Will I visit the Lone Star State again? I am not sure. If I do, I'd like to do a Leverguns Safari. I don't think I would get burned as I did in the past.