Couple old single shots

[marlinman93]

A few weeks ago I was offered a couple old single shots, and since one was a Marlin Ballard, and the other a Rolling Block, I bought both from pictures sent to me. The Ballard was a #3 in .22RF, and the Rolling Block was supposedly a "Sporting Rifle" in an unknown "big cartridge". But the price was so cheap that it was worth the risk, so I agreed to buy both.
I got them last week, and immediately realized the Rolling Block was not a Sporting Rifle, but is a 20 gauge Sporting Shotgun! In very nice shape, with a perfect bore, so I was happy.
The Ballard #3 was in great shape, with a excellent bore, and had a special order tang sight, plus special order shotgun buttplate stock. Unusual for a #3 that normally has a steel crescent buttplate. But more unusual were the features and serial numbers. It's a early JM Marlin stamped receiver, but has a serial number that's higher than any JM Marlin marked Ballard I've ever seen? John Marlin incorporated in 1881 and the company name changed to Marlin Firearms Co., and a new rollstamp for Ballards began around 1881-1882 era. That change happened around serial numbers in the 9000 range, but this JM Marlin #3 is in the 18,000 range, about double the norm and should make it a 1886-87 era manufacture. It has all the features of an early JM Marlin Ballard, but how it got later serial numbers is nuts. I took it all apart to ensure it wasn't mixed parts, but numbers match on receiver, barrel, block halves, buttstock, and forearm. While checking numbers I also discovered Birmingham England proof marks under the barrel, and on the left side of the receiver and breech block.
Puzzled by the whole rifle, and can't think of a logical explanation for how it could have been completed pre 1881, and get the old rollstamp, but not be serial numbered until 5-6 years later?

Ballard #3:







The shotgun:

[GunnyMack]

If they could only talk to us! The British proofs lead to the question of did they re-serialize it?
That roller would be fun to take to a skeet field!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Wonderful! I love old single shots.

[marlinman93]

If they could only talk to us! The British proofs lead to the question of did they re-serialize it?
That roller would be fun to take to a skeet field!

Re-serializing would be almost impossible without also restoration of the whole gun. And since Marlin serial numbered all the major parts this would border on impossible. Mainly because the very narrow edges of the stock and forearm that meet the receiver are where the serial numbers were marked, and those edges were unfinished wood. So if someone removed wood to eliminate the serial numbers, then it would be smooth, and less wood at the inletting. Then there's the two breech block halves, the bottom of the barrel, and the exposed lower frame that's casehardened, and all but the barrel were casehardened, and would need to be annealed and re-casehardened after changing the numbers. As I mentioned, almost impossible.

Since Marlin serial numbered all those parts as guns were built, in order to keep fitted parts together as they moved through the plant, it would require numbers stamped as parts were fitted, and before final finish was applied.
The only theory I can come up with that makes any sense is if the receiver was cast, finished, and old rollstamp applied, and then got set aside before any other parts were made. Then 5-6 years later it was discovered unfinished and the breech block halves, barrel, and stocks built, and the high serial number added to all these later parts, and the early receiver at the time the old receiver was finally built out.
I do know that Marlin had a habit of "misplacing" parts, and sometimes older parts were used up later. Usually not this much later. But Bill Brophy (Marlin historian) told me when they moved their old plant in 1969 after almost 100 years at the original location, they found old Ballard barrels, and also barrels full of 1890's Marlin lever action parts. Bill said he grabbed a bunch of Ballard barrels and gave them to collectors he knew, but all the old parts were sold to Numrich Gun Parts in 55 gallon barrels for scrap steel prices.

[GunnyMack]

Yes, I see your point of a reserialization being next to impossible .
Your theory is probably correct, a shop find and finished much later.

[marlinman93]

I took a chance and emailed the Birmingham Proof House in England, and asked if they possibly kept old records of firearms in the 1800's they proofed? I got a reply from the curator at Birmingham this morning asking for the serial number on my Ballard, and said he will send all the info they have records on this rifle! Considering there are no records on any Ballard rifles ever built, this is pretty exciting to at least date when this Ballard was sent to England and got proofed. Plus which company or gun dealer brought it to the house to be proofed!

[Bill in Oregon]

Pretty lovely rifles, Vall.

[GunnyMack]

That is awesome Val! Not only because they may have record of it but because they actually replied in a timely manner!!
Curious to see the info they send.

[marlinman93]

I'll post the info, or a copy of the letter as soon as I hear something.

[Paladin]

Wonderful! I love old single shots.

+1

[earlmck]

Neat! Thanks for sharing with us Val. Fine pieces of history there.

[gamekeeper]

I took a chance and emailed the Birmingham Proof House in England, and asked if they possibly kept old records of firearms in the 1800's they proofed? I got a reply from the curator at Birmingham this morning asking for the serial number on my Ballard, and said he will send all the info they have records on this rifle! Considering there are no records on any Ballard rifles ever built, this is pretty exciting to at least date when this Ballard was sent to England and got proofed. Plus which company or gun dealer brought it to the house to be proofed!

I sent a lot of shotguns to the Birmingham proof house back in the day even thought of getting a job there in the 70s. I hope they dig up some interesting info.

[marlinman93]

The curator of their museum is a part time employee who only works 2 days a week, so might be awhile before he does research and sends me his findings. I need to learn patience!

[44shooter]

First time I’ve seen a roller shotgun. It looks so clean and balanced.

[marlinman93]

First time I’ve seen a roller shotgun. It looks so clean and balanced.

I've owned a couple others, but none in great shape, so sold them. This one has a very long 35" barrel, but is very light and points nicely.