I guess its my turn for pet loss and Christian thoughts

[CowboyTutt]

First off, I guess I should apologize for my long absence here. I was not the same after my last trip to Ukraine in September of ’23. I made it safely throughout Ukraine after flying into Poland and crossing the border by shared rides into and out of Ukraine. After that visit, old things just didn’t feel quite the same I guess.

To back up further before that, I retired early from school psychology in public schools for 20 years prior to that trip to care for my aging Mother. I didn’t know how bad the situation had become down here in SoCal with my Mom until November the year before that, and I knew I needed to contemplate an exit strategy that would work well for my school district, and not leave them in a bind unlike if I had to leave work unexpectedly mid-year. And using up all my sick days for family matters would have adversely hit pension, so retiring early and working part time in SoCal while caring for her seemed the best option as a good son. So I have been down here two years I think, and Mom has declined significantly so I know I made the right decision. We are still combining households of 3 people, and most of the burden has fallen on me in this time. So it has been pretty darn hard with some personal health problems that arose with me, now pretty much resolved. As everyone here knows, getting old is not for sissies.

Saying all that, I guess its my turn to cry about losing a beloved pet. Before I was born, my wonderful Ukrainian Mom once saved the life of a kitten that the local vet said was going to die. She didn’t like that at all, and she set about bottle feeding that little cat. It survived and lived to be 16 years old. I grew up with that cat even as a child in Tustin and Santa Barbara, CA. Her name was "Loopy" cat because she did forward flips to climb into her box.

So fast forward 40 years and I was living alone in Hollister, CA, in my first job as a school psychologist there. A feral cat had a litter on the pea gravel outside my duplex condo. I found them after hearing the mewing sounds. I decided to take two of them and raise them as my own because of what my Mom did in my childhood. I had to bottle feed them and toilet them with a warm rag. I spoke to animal rescue experts and vets to do so. I fed them a 50/50 blend of goats milk and water, but both kittens developed mucus around there eyes and nose. I called the vet or someone back and while commenting that goat’s milk was the perfect or universal milk, that he told me it lacked enough protein for mammals and was not so perfect. As I was previously into weight lifting and took supplements, I immediately knew I had a solution and spiked the goat’s milk with protein powder. Their eyes and nose’s cleared up in 24 hours, they just needed more nutrition.
But their stools were too soft, so I went back to the vet or animal rescue person (sorry, I forget now, it was a very long time ago) and he recommended adding pumpkin concentrate for fiber, the same you use in a can to make pumpkin pie. So I did that, and it helped immediately.
So like most of us out there, if a little was good, more must be better right? So I added more pumpkin puree to the mix. Poor little critters were yowling as they passed these hard orange pellets! LOL.
So fast forward many years and I never regretted that decision to take them in. I even took them on long road trips, even to meet a guy named “Old Savage” on this forum.
Yes, Fred, your “favorite cats”, who if I recall correctly, you were very allergic to, stayed out on your back patio, sealed away from us by a glass sliding door, enclosed outside by a retaining wall about 6 feet tall, give or take. You warned me, “won’t they jump the wall??” I said, “No, they won’t, trust me”. And they didn’t. We were connected at the hip, and they would not go beyond a certain distance from me. And they didn’t.
So I know cats are sort of dismissed around here on this forum. Maybe they are seen as being aloof and not very loving or don’t bind well to humans like dogs do. I would have owned dogs in my childhood and past adult years but it was never an option as a renter.
I would only say that cats are the most adaptive animals on the planet. Their behavior can range from feral and not needing humans at all, to being just as needy and affectionate as any dog who ever lived.
So my little female cat who I named Kiki in honor of my Mom’s kitten Kiki, who never had a chance at life, and was stoned to death by a jealous neighbor kid (owning a pet when everyone is starving in Eastern Ukraine circa very late 1930’s or early 1940’s was frowned upon when you were just struggling to feed your family and raise kids of your own.” So that Kiki got a “do-over” with me and eventually my Mom and Sis as well.
What made her special? Nothing I guess other than our bond. Both her and her brother were raised as indoor cats, and they never harmed another creature a day in their lives being raised indoor only. They never learned how to hunt and would look very perplexed when confronted with bugs or animals normally hunted for food.

All this being said, the fate of our pets after death is undecided. The Bible says nothing about it as far as I am aware of, and that’s using my Catholic and Orthodox Bibles too.
One of the best things I ever read on the subject I believe came from a Catholic priest but I am not 100% sure of that, and can’t find it again. But his idea was that animals are messengers of God’s Eternal and unconditional Love for us (for truly God never seems to give up on us), and that’s a pretty lofty place in the hierarchy of the Cosmos, things seen and unseen.
More specifically, as to our pets going to Heaven, meaning with us: the very best advice I ever heard comes from my friend James K, a fellow Roman/Ukrainian Catholic and retired judge, and a man I truly admire and love as my friend. And he simply told me one day about the whole “pet issue” (and truly deeply sorry Jim if I misunderstood you) but he said something to the effect, “we just don’t know!”
So I like to think there is a place for our pets, those that we bonded with for many years, and they have a place in Heaven with us, as it would seem to me that maybe they could as they were not born of Original Sin like us.
Maybe I misunderstand all of this stuff, I am no Theologian. But as a Priest once said to me, “it seems logical that there is a Purgatory” as things in Heaven need to be perfect. So maybe there is also a place for our pets there, as yet unwritten about. It also seems logical to me.
We as humans are not free of Sin. Our pets on the other hand, who knows?
I just lost a good one. My heart is breaking tonight.
I am not the first or the last on this subject and loosing a marriage partner or child is far, far worse, I would totally agree.
But our pets provide us with love when we are down, and they support us when we are sad, and they give us years of joy.
As I write this, my “Little Girl” is asleep and in repose next to me in a nice box, wrapped in a family textile from my Ukrainian Grandfather when he worked in a textile mill scores of years ago after arriving here in the USA.
God Bless our pets, Sad as Heck tonight.
Humbly,
-Tutt

[gamekeeper]

Tut I'm sorry to hear you have to go through the anguish of losing a much loved pet at a time with so many depressing things going on in your life.
When I was employed as a gamekeeper feral cats were high on the list of unwelcome predators and I unfortunately gained a reputation as a cat killer, so every cat that went missing was deemed to be down to me. My mother had cats all her life so I too grew up with cats as well as dogs and other critters. After my game keeping years I was living on my second wife's fathers farm where feral cats were also unwelcome and one day while looking after my three year old step daughter I saw a manky looking feral cat hunting a hedgerow, now my second wife had a cat that had kittens which had mysteriously disappeared, thinking this feral cat may have something to do with probably fathering the kittens and their disappearance I grabbed a single shot 20 gauge and with step daughter in tow went after the feral cat and shot it (trying to explain why to a three year old) then we heard mewing by a water trough near the dead cat, on investigation I found two kittens one of which was down a very wet drain but they were alive. The one down the drain was soaked and hardly moving so I took them back home and set about drying and warming these two tiny balls of fur and happily they did survive much to my step daughters delight.

[GunnyMack]

No words can help , but I'm sorry for you Tutt.

The one thing that I read somewhere many years ago it dog spelled backwards is God- he sent them to us and as such they go back to him.

The first litter Winnie had one pup was sickly. No matter what I tried he wouldn't eat, no weight gain is a bad sign. Winnie knew and pretty much ignored this pup. Multiple trips to the vet with no answers. A different vet diagnosed a heart condition and through lots of tears she ended his misery. I think she cried worse than I did!
My reasoning and salvation to this was a child in heaven asked for a puppy. That was 11 years ago and I'm crying about it now!
Does it get easier? HECK NO!
We are with you Tutt.

[Grizz]

I grieve with you Tutt, and look forward to the outcome, when LORD drys every tear.

[Bill in Oregon]

Tutt, your loss could not be more real.
I firmly believe there is something beautiful going on between God and the dogs he blesses us with.

[Pat C]

Sorry for your loss , time will heal .

[Bronco]

I feel the hurt! AND as one of my signatures "there just has to be dogs in heaven" applies to all pets

[BobCat]

CowboyTutt, you don't know me from Adam's housecat... I've been a member here for years but strayed when I dropped out of Cowboy Action Shooting and just today found the Forum and reset my password. Came looking for advice on Blue Dot in .357 magnum.

Saw your post and had to reply.

Your “Little Girl” meant a lot to you, and you may find some comfort at a website called https://petloss.com/ that has the Rainbow Bridge poem. To make it short, pets are not allowed into Heaven un-escorted, but there is a place (not purgatory) where they wait for us until it is our time, too, and then we cross the bridge together.

May her memory be a blessing.

We just lost our oldest, Alpha, who was 19. He and his brother Beta were kittens I found at work in May 2005.

And your story of the pumpkin rang a bell so I found the Kitten Glop recipe. It works, they grow up big and strong. It is not my recipe but I do not recall who wrote it, I just know it is good.
---------------------------------
Here is the recipe for Kitten Glop

Unflavored Knox Gelatin
Eggs
Plain Yogurt (with live cultures)
Mayonnaise (not low fat or Miracle Whip) Light Karo Syrup (light meaning in color-not the dark Karo
syrup) Evaporated Goat Milk (next to regular canned milk in grocery store) Canned pumpkin Taurine
capsules (from health food store)

Mix together and set aside:
2 pkts of Knox Gelatin
2 cups boiling water

Mix together (whisk after each addition):
4 eggs (yolks only)
4 Tablespoons Plain Yogurt
2 Tablespoons Mayonnaise
2 tsp. light Karo Syrup
1 can (12 oz) evaporated goat milk
1/2 cup canned pumpkin
2 Taurine capsules (open capsules and pour powder into milk mix)

After mixing add the Knox Gelatin you had set aside.
This will keep in your refrigerator for 7 days.... don't panic when you open the refrigerator and find you
have gelatin milk...because that is what happens to it. I take what I need out, warm back to its liquid state
in the microwave and serve to the babies. For longer storage, freeze in ice cube trays. Two cubes fill a 2
oz kitten bottle.
-----------------------------------

So hang tough, keep your eyes and ears open for "in need" kits or pups, favor center and hold 'em tight!

[2ndovc]

Hang in there Andy.

It doesn't matter what kind of animal it is, their loss is always painful.
I was never allowed to have a dog as a kid. My dad didn't like them and when I was about 10, I was attacked by a German Shepherd. I was nervous around most dogs after that. I had a cat named Winston for a very log time and even now, makes me sad to think about losing him. In my twenties I developed a severe allergy to cats, so I can't be around them anymore, but discovered how wonderful dogs are. My first wife grew up with German Shepherds and wanted to get one. I honestly, still don't trust them, but agreed to getting a dog. Our first house wasn't in the best neighborhood. I'd never met a mean Lab in my life, so we went searching for one. We got a black female and named her Tasha.
She was the best dog I've ever had and we were inseparable. She would go to work with me every day and followed me everywhere. She made it all the way to 16 and even now, it's a rare day that I don't think about her.

Jason

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Andy. It is unreal how sad one can be when we lose our faithful companions. And like you, I've had cats that were every bit as loving as dogs, and who wanted to be by my side 100% of the time.

[Old No7]

Sorry for your loss...

One of the best things I ever read on the subject I believe came from a Catholic priest but I am not 100% sure of that, and can’t find it again. But his idea was that animals are messengers of God’s Eternal and unconditional Love for us (for truly God never seems to give up on us), and that’s a pretty lofty place in the hierarchy of the Cosmos...

Well, maybe not "all animals" (think: sharks, snakes, etc.) but domesticated ones & horses, yes, I'd agree they're something special. They truly are family members for sure.

Old No7

[Streetstar]

Im a fan of our little feline friends too , Tutt.

I lost the kitties in the first 2 pics within the last 3 years but they were my naptime companions for close to 15 years. The pic of the dog and the kitten i took at a customers home and it just reminded me that there is goodness all around us if we take the time to look around

[piller]

Tutt, sorry to hear of your loss. Cats and dogs only live a part of our lives, but we are their entire life. I hope you find comfort, and remember that your behavior to an animal is something which GOD takes into account. Your entry into Heaven is bought with your belief in Christ, but your total reward is based also on your works. Selflessly caring for some creature which can give you nothing more than love is a good work. Doing it for love is what is attributed to you as a good work. Take some comfort in the fact that you showed GOD's love to another. Loss hurts, but the hurt lessens with time. Stay willing tp open your heart my friend.

[Paladin]

Sorry for the loss.

[CowboyTutt]

Wow, Holy Krapola, just got back here, thank you for the many kind words and deep thoughts. I want to address them and will do so shortly. Yes, its funny how our furry critters get into our lives and skin. I need to take out a note pad which I have handy and jot down some notes, then will respond in kind. I raised this little girl with her brother since they were only one week old. I am not sure what the thinking is about why cats are so disposable? Is it because they breed so much there is always another one around the corner? Dogs have litters of pups too. Is it because that cats are generally more aloof? I think maybe that is the reason. They can be, for sure and for certain.

But they can be exceptionally affectionate and bond to humans just like dogs do. Why do I say this? Well, back in Hollister, I watched a cat have some kittens, and the kittens would not leave a certain perimeter of space from the mother cat. After I took my own two kittens in, they both did the same with me, which is why they would not leave Old Savage's back deck without me. I had become the surrogate "Mom cat". LOL.

What can I say, I study behavior, both animal and human. Just a gentle reminder, but I was a school psychologist for 20 years, and while semi-retired, just know I will be observing everything you do in my presence, cat, dog or human! LOL Whether dog or cat, the difference in their temperament is totally dependent on how their human raises them:
Dogs can be mean, ugly and dangerous. Depends how they were raised. Best dog I ever knew was "Bill", a "dangerous" pit bull. Belonged to a good friend, rather legendary in the motorcycle community in Redwood Valley, Ca. "The Burn Unit" aka Steve Burns. That dog had 3xs the personality of most human beings and he certainly prided himself on it (the dog, not Steve!) Bill could not or would not hurt a fly, and never did before his passing. This dog was so loved by friends of its owner, that they contributed thousands to a leg or hip surgery (sorry, I forget exactly but I think it was a leg surgery).

Cats can be aloof, unfriendly, probably not as dangerous, but not friendly.

Humans are probably the most dangerous species of all, with little to no respect for life, when looked at from a planetary, overall perspective. Just look at all the cries for abortion with no limits and euthanasia rights all over the world.

More to follow soon, thanks guys as always for listening.

This is still the best place, full of the best people.

Thank you guys, and humbly.

-Tutt or Andy Tuttle

[gamekeeper]

Andy, there is always going to be a Cat vs Dog debate and I find it funny how people divide themselves as either Cat lovers or Dog lovers I was brought up with both Cats and Dogs but as I got older Dogs became more preferred as after all they are "mans best friend" even though at the time my mom had a white cat that followed me like a Labrador but only if I was carrying my air rifle, on shooting a Starling he would rush in grab it and disappear...definitely not a retriever...
Both Dogs and Cats have proved to make good companions for people with different needs and lifestyles.

[GunnyMack]

Granted I haven't delivered hundreds of puppies but of the 4 litters I've had and the 3 or 4 I have helped with I can say that if you are the first thing a pup smells it will remember you! I figured that out when helping with litters, one pup I delivered would come to me when I would go visit.
It's claimed that a dogs nose memory is 7 years.