Round Nose Lead Bullets

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JimT
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Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

While there have been major advances in the technology of bullet construction and performance, it would be wrong to overlook and completely dismiss the old roundnose lead bullet. Read the history of them and look how well the performed. Yes. There are "better" bullets available now, for certain applications. But don't forget what has been done with them in the past. And it wasn't because humans were weaker then than they are now! All the wars between the 1860's and now saw roundnose bullets being used, first in rifles and handguns and later mostly in handguns. And they worked. Especially when the shooter made them work because of marksmanship. That still holds true for today. If a person is putting their trust in a special bullet and how it performs in jello they are putting their trust in the wrong place.

Here's an old-time bullet that worked for many many years. And still will. Are there better bullets that are more effective in taking game or for self-defense? Sure. But it will still work if the shooter is up to it.
7.jpg
Left- .45 Colt & 255 gr. factory ... Right = .45 Short Colt and 230 gr. factory (same as .45 Schofield except for rim diameter)
3.JPG
Lyman #454191
4.JPG
The old Lyman mold rescued by my Dad
5.JPG
Not the best bullet but it was used for many years and stopped many a bad man.
It still will if the shooter is up to it.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, Remington to used to sell essentially that very bullet with a slightly dished base and lubed with a black, sticky lube as a component for handloaders. I loved it in .45 Colt.
I look forward to shooting this one from Lee, which I posted on the Russian thread.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

I like that bullet in the .44 ... something about shooting the old traditional bullets appeals to me. Especially when they are known to be accurate.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by GunnyMack »

This post and the other about round nose bullets just made me think about ROUND BALLS from muzzle loaders.
How many countless people and animals have been killed by round balls?
I have a T/C Cherokee .32 and 15grs of 3F behind a 47 gr rb will destroy a squirrel, probably kill a deer( think buckshot) and larger game.
There is nothing wrong with this style of bullet. Just have to put it in the right spot!
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

GunnyMack wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:30 pm This post and the other about round nose bullets just made me think about ROUND BALLS from muzzle loaders.
How many countless people and animals have been killed by round balls?
I have a T/C Cherokee .32 and 15grs of 3F behind a 47 gr rb will destroy a squirrel, probably kill a deer( think buckshot) and larger game.
There is nothing wrong with this style of bullet. Just have to put it in the right spot!
Round balls worked for 500 years or more.
Along with sharp sticks.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Twodot »

^^^^ what he said ^^^^ +1
..
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GunnyMack
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by GunnyMack »

Exactly my point Jim, they work just fine and no reason to doubt the effectiveness of the round profile, be it a ball or round nose.
If that was all I had and had to trust my life I wouldn't think twice.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

Yessir Gunny. As they say in Moazambique, "Estamos juntos."
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Ysabel Kid
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Ysabel Kid »

There is something just nostalgic about a round nose or RNFP lead bullet. It makes you feel like your are enjoying history when loading and shooting them! :D
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EdinCT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by EdinCT »

Jim, Those swaged bullets were soft and I image the were flat real soon after hitting flesh. I used to buy them real cheap (Remington)and they did shoot real good.
I remember reading a article by Brian Pierce years ago where he mentioned shooting a Black bear with a 454190 Lyman over Red dot and the bear died right quick.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

EdinCT wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:32 pm Jim, Those swaged bullets were soft and I image the were flat real soon after hitting flesh. I used to buy them real cheap (Remington)and they did shoot real good.
I remember reading a article by Brian Pierce years ago where he mentioned shooting a Black bear with a 454190 Lyman over Red dot and the bear died right quick.
Yes, they were soft. I loaded some of the Remington bullets with a heavy load of 2400. They leaded the barrel from one end to the other and keyholed the target at 15 feet. Apparently just stripped and never stabilized. 800 .. 850 fps they were great!
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Absolutely loved the Lee 429-240-2R out of the Model P today, both .44 Russian and .44 Special loads. For me to hit a four-inch flapper, one-handed and offhand at 20 yards five out of five is red-letter performance for this old caballero. I have had a great deal of frustration with firearms lately and it was almost soul-cleansing to come home from the range happy and in a good mood.
This target contributed to my upbeat mood as well -- newish Bear Creek Arsenal side-charging upper in . 450 Bushmaster. After I get some more rounds through it I hope to get this sort of group at 100 yards.

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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

Nice shootin' Bill.
I spent several hours shooting today.
Was reminded by the targets that I need to practice more. :lol:
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Grizz
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Grizz »

that is good shooting. I like those side chargers :). what is your sight setup on the 450?
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Walt »

Very nice, Bill! Thanks for the picture.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Grizz, I am running a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6X. Really like the scope.
Bear Creek currently has that complete upper on sale for $229. Hard to beat.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Grizz »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:15 am Grizz, I am running a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6X. Really like the scope.
Bear Creek currently has that complete upper on sale for $229. Hard to beat.
Thank you. I have a 1-4 with a 5.56 BDC, and a lighted reticule, I am going to try it on wulf-boy. Someday.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by trapper45 »

For what it's worth: The Remington 250-grainer is .454" and works great in an Auto-Rim case in a shaved Webley.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:12 pm Absolutely loved the Lee 429-240-2R out of the Model P today, both .44 Russian and .44 Special loads. For me to hit a four-inch flapper, one-handed and offhand at 20 yards five out of five is red-letter performance for this old caballero.
That’s fine shooting for any Pistolero my friend.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:23 am There are "better" bullets available now, for certain applications. But don't forget what has been done with them in the past. And it wasn't because humans were weaker then than they are now! All the wars between the 1860's and now saw roundnose bullets being used, first in rifles and handguns and later mostly in handguns. And they worked. Especially when the shooter made them work because of marksmanship. That still holds true for today. If a person is putting their trust in a special bullet and how it performs in jello they are putting their trust in the wrong place.

Here's an old-time bullet that worked for many many years. And still will. Are there better bullets that are more effective in taking game or for self-defense? Sure. But it will still work if the shooter is up to it.
Jim, I don’t know how much progress we have made.

If you stay with the same velocities in these older cartridges, I do not see much advantage in more modern designs.

I favor a 255 gr soft bullet at comfortable velocities.

You can get better performance if you raise the bullet weight and the velocity to be sure.

Remember that Keith thought his 300 gr swaged down rifle bullet
probably ran around 800 fps but it didn’t lack in killing power.


From this morning:
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Last edited by Scott Tschirhart on Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:47 am Jim, I don’t know how much progress we have made.

If you stay with the same velocities in these older cartridges, I do not see much advantage in more modern designs.

I favor a 255 gr soft bullet at comfortable velocities.

You can get better performance if you raise the bullet weight and the velocity to be sure.

Remember that Keith thought his 300 gr swaged down rifle bullet probably ran around 800 fps but it didn’t lack in killing power.
I am sure it didn't. I usually ran it a bit over 1100 fps in my Ruger. At that velocity it had enough power at extremely long range to penetrate 4" pine logs and then heavily dent an old steel bedframe. At 400 yards it would dent a 16" truck rim. At 800 fps I would think that you could not get it to stop in a deer no matter the angle of the shot.

As for the 255 gr. bullet ... it was used for a lot of years and worked quite well.
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Grizz
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Grizz »

JimT wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:40 am
Scott Tschirhart wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:47 am
As for the 255 gr. bullet ... it was used for a lot of years and worked quite well.


The 255 HC is the bullet for the 45 Super that is in the works, the hard cast version of it penetrated 64 inches of gel. I'm with Scott on this, it has to be placed where it will do the most good, but it's my choice for the woods-walking application of my 45. I will get to try it out on Son's pork invaders.... some day, LORD willing.

I'm still undecided about the belt feed mod . . . . . LOL --grizz
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Watch this and see what you think.

https://youtu.be/vqgJNWmg9DI?si=rspCrTJrMvvPzBoi
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

He certainly collected his venison efficiently with that lovely open top. Hornady shows that load and a 255-grain RNFP at 725. 8)
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I shoot that Hornady bullet over 8 gr of Unique which seems to duplicate the Remington .45 Colt factory load.

It shoots clean and is accurate in my carbine and my SAA. I probably don’t need anything more.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by JimT »

There ain't nothing like a fairly heavy large diameter bullet at moderate velocities. They just work. The last time I talked with John Linebaugh about a month before he passed, he was sharing with me about some of the game he and his wife took with 850 fps loads in the .45 Colt.
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, I remember him writing about that in his definitive article on the .45 Colt. Assuming one can shoot well, it seems to be all that is needed for deer-size critters at reasonable ranges.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:26 am He certainly collected his venison efficiently with that lovely open top. Hornady shows that load and a 255-grain RNFP at 725. 8)
That's Impressive. It is about the energy of a 255 Gr Buffalo Bore 45 Super around 1150fps . . . . which might be unobtainium in the 1911 . . ,
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Walt »

John Linebaugh once said that his sons, Dustin and Cole frequently carried 4 5/8" Rugers in .45 Colt when they were out in the hills and they found their loads with 250 gr cast bullets over 8.5 gr of 231 would pass through deer lengthwise even out past 75 yards.
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Grizz »

Walt wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:45 pm John Linebaugh once said that his sons, Dustin and Cole frequently carried 4 5/8" Rugers in .45 Colt when they were out in the hills and they found their loads with 250 gr cast bullets over 8.5 gr of 231 would pass through deer lengthwise even out past 75 yards.
I'm pretty sure the 45 S will do that also. That load penetrates 64 inches of calibrated gel, how many houthies in file that equates to IDK? My interest is in how much bone it will break on the way out.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

It’s a shame that Remington discontinued selling these bullets.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Scott, that is the nasty old Remington dish-based that came lubed some kind of black goo and they shot very well for me, not to mention they looked like they came from the 19th century.
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Ray
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Ray »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:04 pm Scott, that is the nasty old Remington dish-based that came lubed some kind of black goo and they shot very well for me, not to mention they looked like they came from the 19th century.
These work the same and are much cleaner.....

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/45hphb230

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/455-webley

the webley design has to be deep-seated in colt cases because of nose length with somewhat reduced powder charges due to the deep-seating.

or use these.....

https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special

but they seem to be out of stock everywhere I've looked.....
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Ray
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Ray »

And other bullets offered by bear creek.....

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/bulletselection

The only negative I see is they're still not set-up for online ordering. You have to call.
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JimT
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

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Ray wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:24 pm And other bullets offered by bear creek.....

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/bulletselection

The only negative I see is they're still not set-up for online ordering. You have to call.
I am old fashioned a love doing it that way.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Round Nose Lead Bullets

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:04 pm Scott, that is the nasty old Remington dish-based that came lubed some kind of black goo and they shot very well for me, not to mention they looked like they came from the 19th century.
True enough. The Remington load is on the left and my handload is on the right.

My load clocks an average of 764 fps and the factory load averages 790 fps in a 4 3/4 inch Colt.
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