Moving away from the AR-15

[Walt]

Sure looks like old Ed McGivern to me. Fascinating gentleman and shooter.

[stretch]

I've never had any interest in the AR-15 platform.

My SKS, (or my Marlin 336 in 35 Remington) will do everything that an AR-15
will do for self defense, and they both hit
harder. I'm not concerned with long range accuracy for
either self-defense or deer hunting in Maine. I can rarely
see more than 100 yards in the deer woods, and my 35 Remington,
(or the SKS) are superior to the AR-15 in every way for that task.
I can't see more than 50 yards in any direction from my house,
so I don't need a long-range arm there. I'd use something in 30-06 if I did.

If I want to plink, the 22 rimfire is much cheaper.

-Stretch

[Sixgun]

S

[Bronco]

As far as knock down power, do not forget the the AR 15 come in many different flavors 50 Beaowulf being one of them. I agree with Six about staying united! I have two AR's a SBR 45 acp and a long range sqwerl gun. I prefer the looks of wood and blued steel but I really like'em all. Functional art to me and beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Thank you very much

John

[Ridgerunner]

Well. with right ammo (soft point, hollow point) it might fill the bill for urban warfare, possibally coming to an urban area near you. I have an original Bushmaster that my son (USMC reserve, 1st Gulf War vet USCG, VBPD, RET, current indepedant firearm instructor) agrees with me that the SS109 aint gitting it done, but with a decent expanding projectile it is adequate. I aint wanting to trod on anybody's corn patch, just my POV.

[Ridgerunner]

I agree .223 not optimal for hunting larger critters. I tave a black bear, 2 feral hogs and a lot of whitetails over the years. 444 Marlin But as has been said before, the 2nd aint about huntin' However, for 2 legged varments it is my understanding it works well. A fella decided to shoot the missus in the belly. SWAT surrounded the house, he tried to sneak out the back. 9mm in one hand, .38 in
the other. Challenged by SWAT guy in back yard, he swung pistols toward the offcer who put 5 Federal .223 sp in his torso, DRT. I think he shot so fast that the guy couldn't fall fast enough. ER doc said he'd never seen such soft tissue damage. At 70 yoa and limited mobility, it works for me, but pays yor money and take your chances.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Sorry Scott,
I apologize if you or other people take this wrong and is nothing personal about you as I consider you to be an upstanding patriotic citizen. But posts against the AR15 are unpatriotic and to many of us, unnerving as it gives more credence to the lefts mind boggling deceptive agenda…….people talk and with the internet, words spread fast and any negativity on semi auto guns with hi cap magazines will only help the weak minded control freaks in DC and the universities.

I’m not offended at all. I get where you are coming from and don’t disagree.

I’m not against the AR-15. I’ve probably got 7 or 8 of them here. I’m just not sure that it’s the rifle I would grab for any particular reason as I went out the door.

[Sixgun]

[quote=

I’m not offended at all. I get where you are coming from and don’t disagree.

I’m not against the AR-15. I’ve probably got 7 or 8 of them here. I’m just not sure that it’s the rifle I would grab for any particular reason as I went out the door.

Scott,
I tend to get tunnel vision/thought process whenever I hear “AR15”……and automatically assume government confiscation, banning and now a $5,000 tax…
……no matter what the text of the post is.

I watch too much news and am instantly on my feet to defend America’s rifle, our passions in the gun world and our way of life which is bombarded daily by the left with lies to the uninitiated to gain support…….I’ll start slowing down and reading the text more.——006.

[horsesoldier03]

I will always keep an AR variant solely because I CAN and the fact that it pisses people off that I can. If you think your deer rifle can do everything an AR can you are mistaken. You get a faster rate of fire and faster reloads from an AR than any other rifle I know of. That said, YES the others have alot more punch, but the AR has enough for it's intended purpose.

[Grizz]

I will always keep an AR variant solely because I CAN and the fact that it pisses people off that I can.

Me Too! ! ! You nailed this one. I have a 556 because I can. For now.

I have other uppers, and I think it is possible that the one I keep the longest will be the AR pistol that shoots 50 Beo ammo. It is a pistol round, sort of. It is handy. It can hit like the original 45/70s. It has a high enough TKO number for my needs. It can be loaded down and manually operated for certain loads. 50 RB comes to mind. It carries well with a 2 point sling, freeing both hands without a barrel sticking into the brush. Or single point with a sling that controls stability for aimed fire. It is not a rifle. It has a LOT of practical appeal.


grizz

[jeepnik]

Can’t let it pass. “Unpatriotic”
Because, based solely on actual field experience, while wearing this nation’s uniform, I believe that the M16/AR15 and the 5.56 are the worst combination ever forced on the American military? Frankly sir, you need to seriously think before you type.

My point of view is as valid as the next man’s. And I sure as heck earned the right to express it.

[stretch]

But posts against the AR15 are unpatriotic

Gotta disagree with that as a blanket statement, Sixgun.

As a weapons system, I think there are better ones out there. Lotta people with WAAAY more experience and
knowledge of the situation would agree with me. Some of those guys watched their buddies die because of the
shortcomings of that platform, especially in it's early days in Vietnam.

Outlawing or restricting black rifles, just because they're black rifles? You have a point there. It's the thin end
of wedge - start demonizing one type of firearm, get rights to that one toppled over, and use that as a precedent to attack
the next evil gun. I get it. We've got to resist THAT.

As to whether or not an individual likes it? Personal opinion, and everybody's got one. The AR-15 bug hasn't bitten me, but
I spent 4 years in the service defending your constituionally-enumerated right to have one. Doesn't make me or anyone
else who might share my opinion unpatriotic. And even if I disagree with fans of the platform, I thoroughly respect their
right to have an informed opinion, and I demand that they respect my right to have mine.

-Stretch

[Old Savage]

Never had one. Had enough of the M16 in the Army and NG.

[jeepnik]

Guys, I’ve got apologize if I came off a bit harsh in my last post. A button got pushed and I should know better.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I suppose I should apologize for starting this.

I don’t hate the AR.

I don’t want to take yours away.

I don’t want anyone taking mine away.

And I certainly wasn’t trying to step on anyone’s toes or sense of patriotism.

I’m sorry if I came off that way. It wasn’t intended.

[stretch]

don’t hate the AR.

I don’t want to take yours away.

I don’t want anyone taking mine away.

And I certainly wasn’t trying to step on anyone’s toes or sense of patriotism.

THIS!

Kinda funny - a Leverguns Forum, and we're arguing about AR-15s.

Shoot what ya want - and present a united front to the anti-gunners.

Yes?

-Stretch

[piller]

Been thinking about this. We are all adults. We all have opinions and experiences. Man up and calm down if any part of this thread has upset you. I have used an M16, M16A2, M60, and T.O.W. Missile, and like a few others, I don't really want one. Doesn't mean I or anyone else on this forum thinks they are not worth protecting from the fascist gun grabbers. It just means that some of us are not fond of them. PERIOD! END OF SENTENCE.

If you want to disagree with me, PM me. I can give you a phone number and some times I am available.

[Sixgun]

The

[Bronco]

Can't we all just get along
Opinions are just like that thing we all have. To put a little salve on this thread, I think we are all on the same side of the wall and we are all in the trench together. united we sand, divided we fall ! I just made that up LOL not
This here is still the best place on the internet and families squabble once in awhile. Time for a big group hug, mmmmmmmmmmmmm . Now didn't that feel better

[COSteve]

WOW!

Did this thread take a dramatic turn or what? The OP was just voicing an opinion and things were going fairly well until our resident 'All things not Winchester or Colt Hater' posted that argument inciting post.

Yes, he has the right to his opinion as do we all. But yelling "Fire" in the theater to voice your opinion is just not right. Like many, I got stuck with an M16 too and am not a fan but geeze, it doesn't make us unpatriotic. That post was just plain stupid.

[Sixgun]

Can't we all just get along
Opinions are just like that thing we all . Time for a big group hug, mmmmmmmmmmmmm . Now didn't that feel better

Ha! I like that Bronco! “Group hug”. ……yea, maybe in addition to the “General Discussion”, “Classified”, and “Politics” section we can add “The Snowflake Express”. Next to each name would be a 5 gallon jar with lines on it for each fluid ounce from melting snowflakes and the one who gets to the top wins a R.

One thing for sure…..over at the Colt forum the nicer and more expensive stuff you post, along with knowledge, the more “likes” and respect you get…….100% different….….you Winchester and Colt haters can take a breather as I’m moving on ——006….(the guy who can’t tell his wife where he’s going or how long he will be gone) .

Written words to a central computer…….that’s all any of this is…….I really wonder how many of any of us can say that we could comfortably live in a glass house…….most people here or anywhere have that “image” that they want others to think they are.

I’m free.

[jeepnik]

Getting angry because someone accuses you of being "unpatriotic" because you don't share their warped opinions doesn't make one a snowflake. Snowflakes are afraid to get angry, much less speak out. Get along? I get along with everyone until they cross the line then I get flat testy and will not backdown. It's caused me pain sometimes but I can live with it.

[COSteve]

One thing for sure…..over at the Colt forum the nicer and more expensive stuff you post, along with knowledge, the more “likes” and respect you get…….100% different….….you Winchester and Colt haters can take a breather as I’m moving on ——006….(the guy who can’t tell his wife where he’s going or how long he will be gone) .

So, you're saying that over at the Colt Forum you 'buy' your likes and respect by showing you've got some "nicer and more expensive stuff"?

If that's your definition of respecting your posts, I feel sorry for you. You don't realize that it's not the value of the stuff you have but the value of the man you are.

[jeepnik]

You know, I'm just the opposite. Tell me you don't want me somewhere and I'll stay around just to irritate you. It would be easier for you to maybe ignore those with whom you donot agree.

[stretch]

And things were just starting to calm down.........

[piller]

I don't have any full auto firearms. More than I want to spend.

I have what I like, and that is my right. If you want something different from what I want or have, then by all means GET IT.

[AJMD429]

Has anyone ever really used a handgun to fight their way to a long gun and transitioned it into the fight?

Sort of I guess.

In the Army I was a Tank Commander and in 1968 I was stationed in Cu Chi. One day we came under fire and I was out of my tank at the time discussing our plan with some other TCs. All I had was my 1911 so I fired back while moving to my tank. When I got inside, I grabbed the TC override handle, swung the main gun around and fired in the direction of the incoming.

We kept a canister round (think 3 1/2" diameter shot gun shell with 12,000 pellets and a point blank range of 400 meters) always loaded because that's what we used most of the time so whoever was firing at us got a response from our 90mm main gun. So, I guess you can say I used my pistol to fight my way to my 'long gun'.

Now that's pretty cool.

You could say "it was just a 3-1/2" shotshell...". Leave out the 'diameter' part....

...but "12,000 pellets"... ooh man...!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Now I do find this very interesting.

https://youtu.be/ZpRWa7TdtD8?feature=shared

If a man puts that many rounds through one I’ll bet he knows how to run it.

[Jared]

For several years I had a real hog problem here at the house. I decided to try the AR platform to develop a real opinion on it compared to other rifles. I started by shooting several with the 223. Like your experience I found it killed them but they generally ran and blood trail were minimal to non existent. I have a lot of thick woods around my house and most of the 223 shot hogs made it into them. I switched to a 300 blackout using 110gr Barnes, and the next 12 hogs shot all had big exits and didn’t make it out of their tracks. The 13th hog was around 150-175 lbs and right at 200 yards. He made it maybe 15 or 20 yards before collapsing and there was an ample blood trail.

Eventually I got bored with the platform and haven’t shot anything with it in several years, but from my experience the 300 was head and shoulders above the 223. I still don’t really consider either a true hunting cartridge, but for pest control I know which I would prefer.

[jeepnik]

Well, shooting hogs with what is essentially a varmit cartridge the results are what is to be expected.

[Sarge]

Now I do find this very interesting.

https://youtu.be/ZpRWa7TdtD8?feature=shared

If a man puts that many rounds through one I’ll bet he knows how to run it.

I'd probably run a throat erosion gauge in that barrel, more out of curiosity than anything else. He's still getting 2 MOA which, at that round count, is really good.

I put the Leupold Rifleman (3-9x40) on my Anderson the other day and, once zeroed, started pecking at the bottom 3 1/2" disc of my spinner target from 200 yards. The first three PMC 55 grain softpoints went into just over 1 1/2" on that plate. That's what I like about the AR platform, more than anything else. Both of the ones I've owned shot like a good bolt action hunting rifle.

[COSteve]

If I had a hog problem and luckily I don't, I'd not bother with the platform at all. No, I'd much rather use the issue as an excuse to get another Ruger Mini Ranch Rifle but in this iteration, it would be the 7.62x39 Mini 30. I've shot the Mini 30 and it packs a significantly harder punch with the 125grn .30 cal ammo.

Supersonically, it's the better choice over the .300 BO as that round was developed as a subsonic choice to fit in the AR-15's mag. The 7.62x39's larger case gives it the advantage especially out past 200 yds. I've shot steel plates with one at 300 yds and it smacks them pretty hard. Much harder than my Mini 14's 62grn ammo does. If I didn't already have and load for an M1A that I love, I'd surely already own a Mini 30. And yes, with handloads a tuned Mini 30 can also achieve 1 MOA accuracy.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I have a .300 Blackout bolt gun and I’m quite happy with it.

[COSteve]

Not saying the 300 BO isn't a good rd, just saying that in a choice between it in an AR and 7.62x39 in a Mini 30, the Mini wins hands down for me 'cause I'm a bit of a walnut and steel guy and not fond of the plastic.

[Scott Tschirhart]

No doubt Jim. I’ve put a lot of rounds downrange but not like this!

Here’s a helpful tip about lights on an AR.

https://youtu.be/idrpiQkBTrQ?feature=shared

Not terribly expensive.