watch your six gentlemen

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Streetstar
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watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

i shared this yesterday on ARFCOM, but it rattled me so i thought i would share an experience that many of us hope never happens, but can

I realize the news is all about mass shootings , but not every shooting is some disgruntled loner with a long gun. Sometimes traditional Man-woman-other man arguments still take place

Monday afternoon in my office parking lot about to go in to finish a few things after hours (5ish pm), i first heard a shot then by reflex hit the gas to find cover or a retreat route. I got clear and was reaching for my own console gun and having Siri call 911 at the same time when i stopped and re-assesed and saw a shooter doing a mag dump between 2 cars then jumping in his own vehicle and sped off. - threat of crossfire was over so i went back and there was a man down with 4 fresh holes in his leg - the maroon hyundai in the pic below is all i can figure kept him dying as he was partially shielded in front of it

  • being armed is a plus, but some situations will darn near be over before you can clear leather.
  • After fashioning a field expedient tourniquet from a motorcycle tie down strap, i thought immediately afterwards that a basic med kit with the addition of some clotting compound and a couple of real tourniquets (and knowing how to use them ) could be much more important than a gun
  • 911 operators are extremely annoying
  • Police response time is what you'd expect - when you'd like them there in 30 seconds, it takes 7 minutes
  • Having to sprint across a parking lot for any reason if you're over age 40 can really hammer home any weaknesses in your PT program
  • Lastly - even with prior .mil training , even what i would consider "advanced training" - it was over 30 years ago and i was out and back in college by 1993. Being an ex such and such of any sort won't prepare a lot of guys' like me for the massive adrenaline surge -dump and surge again that happens once the law shows up and takes over. My Garmin had the nod that day and it showed my heart rate was stable at around 100 throughout the event, but once i was relieved it curiously jumped up to 130 and stayed elevated for 2 hours. - and 36 hours later, im still not sleeping right
  • I guess lastly - even with something like this where i was not a direct participant - i was still there for several hours afterward. At one point when i was done talking to the detectives they said i was good to go but they still needed my truck on site for a while longer to complete their -- whatever it is they were doing. So a workmate and i just went around the corner and had a couple of beers and waited

LEO's looking for shell casings - my vehicle is the blue Tacoma with bike rack --- office park full of white collar folk and small business owners in a middle to upper middle class suburb of Oklahoma City (Norman ) - "That will never happen here!" doesnt apply for me anymore and i'm assembling a proper small med kit for the truck

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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Griff »

I'll bet the victim was glad someone was there, even if they weren't as effective as they thought they should have been. You were likely the difference in his life that day...
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by 2ndovc »

That will get your heart rate up for sure. Griff put it perfectly, though. That guy was very lucky to have someone there. Most people these days would be filming the guy bleeding on the ground with their phones.

Jason 8)
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Wow. I have almost zero military experience (if you don't count advancing in fog with blank-firing M16s on a blank-firing M60 in Army ROTC -- I don't). That situation pressed a whole lot of buttons, and it seems to me you did darned well. I think your heart rate deserved to be elevated. I hope they catch the doer.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by JimT »

I am glad you came through it OK and were able to be help. The problem with those kinds of situations is you cannot tell which is the good guy and which is the bad guy. They both may be bad guys. It could be the good guy took off just to get clear of the scene or because he was scared or wounded.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by stretch »

Glad you came through it all right.

It sounds as if you did all right, too.

Stuff happens without too much warning many times.

And 911 operators can sometimes be HIGHLY ANNOYIN'.

-Stretch
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by AJMD429 »

.
One big lesson I've learned....

....unlike the movies, in real life there's no "scary music" that starts just before something bad happens, to warn you.... :|
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Most folks seem to go through life without paying attention. I think urban life encourages us to do so.

You stepped up. I’m darn proud of you for that.

But you are correct, it can happen anywhere at any time. The way I prepared my rookies was to occasionally stop in the middle of a block. I would describe a bad scene. If you had to call this in, where are you? How and what would you ask for? What would you do?

You can train yourself to be ready without being paranoid. Decisions you make when you are calm are plans that you execute when you are under stress.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by piller »

When things happen fast, your brain takes longer than normal to assess everything. Practicing for emergencies really helps.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Tycer »

I took an NAEMT TECC at SOARescue and it was fantastic. I’m going to reup this fall.
This is the kit I have in both vehicles along with bright orange tourniquets.
https://shop.soarescue.com/products/the-medmag-mount-m3
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 6:57 am Most folks seem to go through life without paying attention. I think urban life encourages us to do so.

You stepped up. I’m darn proud of you for that.

But you are correct, it can happen anywhere at any time. .
Thank you for the kind words and you’re very right about people not paying attention. I I used to blame it on smart phones, But the last few years I’ve noticed that people seem to be moving about in a Covid fog as well. Very nonchalant and inattentive

That combined with the widespread abuse of medical marijuana in my state and that’s a wonder people get anything done
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

Thanks fellows for the supportive words

It means a lot to me because there are so many members on here that are either veterans, LEO, or have formal medical and pharmaceutical training, And we are all outdoorsman to varying degrees, when you guys remark about something like this it comes from a place of direct knowledge.

It’s been about 10 days since this occurred and I’m not doing anything differently for the most part with the exception of parking in the alley behind my office instead of in the general parking lot and my 380 now resides in a pocket holster in my front pocket instead of in the console of my truck. (The console gun is now a Glock).

A little surprised that I’m still not sleeping well but there are also a couple of other possible factors. I’m on a fairly restrictive diet right now and do have some stress with some work deadlines but those things never stopped me from sawing logs before as I can to compartmentalize my normal daily tasks. But that explains why I was up this morning at 5AM scrolling through this forum rather than sleeping

I ordered a general small first aid kit from Amazon plus some specialty trauma items to keep in the truck and I have promised myself I will look around for a basic civilian emergency medical class to refresh my mind on all this stuff soon. I’m single now so who knows I may meet my future ex-wife at one of those places

An old army buddy lives nearby who cross trained as a combat medic and he could likely help but comically enough his marriage is like a sitcom marriage where if he’s at home it’s “yes dear! No dear” and “You are right dear!” (Probably why he’s been married 30 years and I’m single) But point being is he does not get out much so anytime we get together he wants to turn it into a beer party and I’m too old for shenanigans
Last edited by Streetstar on Fri May 19, 2023 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

——-
Last edited by Streetstar on Fri May 19, 2023 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

— duplicate

Trying to correct typos in my post but I can’t see for squat without my reading glasses so I keep hitting the “quote button instead of edit
Last edited by Streetstar on Fri May 19, 2023 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

——duplicate. Did it again Good grief
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by MS 9x56 »

Don’t be so hard on yourself. You kept your Wits about you and rendered aid to a wounded person. You may very well have saved his life with the tools you had to work with. I’d say you earned yourself a Macguyver award at the least. The bell rang and you answered it admirably. Not a lot of people can say that. Thank you.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Tycer »

Streetstar wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 8:23 am——-
Post traumatic stress is what you are experiencing. It’s normal and everyone manifests it differently. Going over the event in detail over and over might help you desensitize your mind. If you don’t pass through this in short order I suggest you find a counselor who has dealt with LE or military to sort some tools for you.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Streetstar »

A year later on this one --

called to court as a witness -- (it had been put off and delayed 2 or 3 times ) -- showed up, spoke to the DA - waited around in a lounge area for an while --- thankful for the Kindle app on my phone and a entertaining Jack Carr novel i had yet to read --

then was told - "youre free to go , - homeboy's cuttin' a deal !"

Im a much more jaded citizen now as a result of not only this, but another personal matter i have been involved with over the year ----- instead of clutching my pearls and being aghast at the bad man shooting someone --- i also think to myself - "Well - what did the shoot-ee do to elicit such a response also"

But i have since been taking my everyday carry a bit more seriously and have a much more comprehensive vehicle loadout to include a real first aid kit , both an IFAK and a bigger kit in the truck --- among other things
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Paladin »

Well done, consider blood-borne pathogens, and yourself first. I was tested for three years ( we were clean) (being an EMT has its drawbacks). Three State Troopers (yes we were shooting at him) when he wrecked.
Last edited by Paladin on Thu May 16, 2024 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Doug, your thread makes me realize I need a better first aid kit than an airway tube and an Israeli bandage that I forgot how to use.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Grizz »

around here cars are getting shot up on the freeways !! mag dumps into a car by a passing vehicle. i hope they start getting shot. kill the engine and tires and the shooter. see how they like that.

not by me though, i never learned to shoot from a moving vehicle . .. makes me sick, it's the government sicking the sickos on American citizens
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by piller »

Black pepper is an amazing item to stop bleeding. Potato starch is also great. Always keep some in your vehicle. If someone needs a tourniquet, put it on, and then use finely ground black pepper (think fast food restaurant pepper packets), or ziploc baggies half full of potato starch to sprinkle on the bleeding and cause a scab to form as you watch. Bleeding out is a real concern after a wound, or if the victim is on a blood thinner.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by oldebear1950 »

I am retired from the US COAST GUARD, and as a senior petty officer, and watchstander as Officer-of-the-day, and technically the base commander at night, I had to go thru red cross certification for CPR, and first aid.
But you know what that was 35 years ago. Could I still do it, I think so, could I do it as well as I could 35 years ago, I do not know the answer to that. Do I remember what I was taught about first aid, all I can say is
some of it.
I would not want to have to go thru what you did, but sometimes we do what we have to do.
I am glad you were there. I live in south Alabama and also carry. If hearing a gun shot my first reaction might have been the same as yours.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by oldebear1950 »

I also keep a first aid kit in my truck, my wife's car, and at home. Never know when you might need it.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Brian, I had never heard of potato starch or black pepper for controlling bleeding!
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by OldWin »

Glad you're ok. I'd say you performed admirably and did what was needed. I'd be jittery too!
Extra first aid is never a bad idea.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Rockrat »

Need to get some potato starch as a "just in case". Black pepper works, but it also burns a bit too!!!

Gets tougher to do CPR for long, as you get older, especially above 6000 ft. altitude!!
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by jeepnik »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 6:46 am Brian, I had never heard of potato starch or black pepper for controlling bleeding!
Hey, it works on leaking radiators. Not all that different, heated fluid leaking from a sealed system.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 5:18 pm Doug, your thread makes me realize I need a better first aid kit than an airway tube and an Israeli bandage that I forgot how to use.

I may have went a tad overboard with my current setup - 2 of the little khaki pouches have the first aid supplies -- ive since replaced them both with red pouches - but one is general purpose stuff - band aids, cortizone creams, alcohol wipes etc., the other is a couple of tourniquets. --- keep another pouch in the glovebox for minor burns 'n boo boo's on the road.

Folks have looked in and said "Arent you worried your truck will get broken into and all that stuff will get stolen? " - I keep a low profile and dont frequent too many places that are known for such activity , but if so - i cant control the actions of anyone else

A few weeks ago, while driving home i came upon a group of cyclists laying in the road -- i was afraid it was going to be carnage as hit and runs on cyclists is a real issue, but they were just out on a group ride and one of them got a bit wobbly and hit another's handlebars --- they didnt need much but were shaken up so i distributed the contents of the "burns and boo boo's" bag so they could clean up the road rash and put a little topical ointment on there.
I felt vindicated at all my local naysayers who were regarding me as a kook for trying to be better prepared, because a situation like that hopefully, is a lot more probable than a shootout and being able to help instead of sheepishly rolling down a window and asking -- "Everyone okay?" - is good



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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Grizz »

no one need feel kooky for following the Boy Scout motto, even though it's disparaged by the culture these days.

be prepared beats its opposite every time
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vindicated indeed, Streetstar. Citizens like you make America a better place. 8)
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by marlinman93 »

Glad you made it through without any harm. Hope the victim recovers also, and can maybe help the police catch the shooter.
I personally would probably figure some way to coverup the newly purchased supplies so they're not so visible and tempting to snatch and grab criminals.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

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marlinman93 wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:44 am Glad you made it through without any harm. Hope the victim recovers also, and can maybe help the police catch the shooter.
I personally would probably figure some way to coverup the newly purchased supplies so they're not so visible and tempting to snatch and grab criminals.

The shooter actually turned himself in --- regarding the victim --- this seemed to be either a dope deal or a "baby momma be creepin' " type of issue --- not sure there are any innocents in this one

i do have a dog blanket type of seat cover for the back seat that has 2 straps to affix it to the front headrests that serve as concealment -- one or both of my doggies are frequent runnin' buddies for me too. but i usually leave it unsnapped as that piece of canvas is not enough to keep them sequestered in the backseat

Its like we say about a lot of things though -- locks are mainly there to keep the mostly honest people out

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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by piller »

Those rolled gauze bandages are great for covering places which are hard to put a bandaid. The athletic tape which sticks to itself can keep pressure on a cut.
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Re: watch your six gentlemen

Post by marlinman93 »

The old saying, "Out of sight, out of mind" applies for a lot of things in cars. If criminals see something valuable they'll often do a smash and grab by breaking a window and getting as much as they can in one hit.
On our recent trek to the Colorado gun show I laid down 1/3rd of my backseat to allow our long guns to fit the load. During travel and motel stays I just used one of my show table cloths to cover them so if someone looked in they'd have no idea what was there.
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