North Fork on Youtube

[Rimfire McNutjob]

So in another thread, @FLINT had mentioned a channel "LEVERGUNS 50" shooting an 1886 in 50-110 driving 6000+ ft-lbs of energy. It was a bit much for me but I'm sure it's enticing to some of the younger viewers.

However, in other videos, he's testing various bullets in the 50-110, 45-90, and .348 WCF. I was interested in the North Fork 230 grain FP test in the .348 so I watched the video. At about the 2:15 mark, he digs the bullet out of some oak boards and it had separated into two pieces ... a mushroomed section and then the solid core that travelled farther after shedding the mushroom. At about 3:15 he shoots the same bullet into some water jugs and again, the bullet separates. Not completely ... this time the rear core is wearing the front mushroom farther down like a hula-hoop.

Following this are some ballistic gelatin shots using "full loads" ... whatever that means to him. I suspect they are a bit hot given his other videos. That .348 does quite a number on those gelatin blocks and there's some good slow motion shots of this. He follows up with a load reduced to simulate 100 yard impact velocity. None of the gelatin shots separated like the other shots. And I suppose the gelatin shots are closer to shooting into an animal than the boards or water.

So would you consider the separations a bullet failure? I always thought and have often read that any separation is a failure. But in this case, it looks like the mushroom provides initial devastating shock and then the core sheds the mushroom by punching through it and continues on to what is now probably a deeper level of penetration not being hindered by the drag of the mushroomed section. I'm just not sure what to think of that ... is it a failure or a feature.

Thoughts?

[Griff]

In the case of "Partition" bullets I don't think of the separation as a failure. When the jacket separates from the core on non-Partition bullets I do think it's a failure.

[Ray]

Way back in the day, it is said that when joyce hornady or john nosler or vernon speer would receive customer complaints of failed bullets they would ask, "where did this bullet come from ?" The irate customer would reply, "from a dead _____" All three said a variation on, "then its not a failure !"

[RIDERED350r]

It's an interesting topic. The Hornady FTX seems to be at the center of this type of conversation for full separation on various types of target medium. Mostly just guys like us shooting them into jugs of water, wet blue jeans and such. I've heard first hand reports from other online friends about the 458 FTX fully seperating on a small whitetail. Was that a failure?? Well, the deer was dead. But would I use that bullet if I were hunting where larger angrier critters are common?? No. But I do like those bullets for the accuracy they seem to give me. I have a 45-70 as well as a 45-90 and have only used those bullets on paper and so far only used them in the 45-70. But the accuracy I got from my Henry using factory open sights shooting from sandbags was darn impressive. Granted, I'm not claiming I can shoot like that every day, I just had a good day that day. I haven't had an opportunityto take a deer with it yet, but I carried those rounds in it all season and have no qualms about it getting the job done.


I think it comes down to using the right bullet for the job. In deer country I'm sure the FTX will do just fine. I've seen how the 32 Win Spl and 44mag (from a 16" model 94 Trapper) performed on white tail and they did the job quite well. They passed through and did a dandy of a job, no bullets recovered to see if they separated

If I ever found myself in bear country for any reason I would likely use heavy cast or a penetrator type bullet.

I'm a fan of Jeremy (Leverguns50) myself. His videos are impressive. Although, he pushes his 45-90s a bit harder than I do. I have a modern Turnbull 1886 and while my loads I've developed are on the stout side (300gr at 2350fps from a 26" barrel) I just don't care to look for the ragged limit of what my rifle will handle, at least not until I get pressure testing equipment. He doesn't just do the high HP big Bores either, there are quite a few videos of him shooting 25-20, 32-20 and others as well. But Jeremy isn't the only one pushing modern 1886 to higher levels. There is a fellow present on several of the shooting forums I am on who hunts Africa frequently with two Winchester lever rifles, an 1886 in 45-90 and an 1895 in 405WCF. He has developed some impressive loads using the Pressure Trace system and has taken Cape Buff with both. He actually throttled back his 350gr 45-90 load as at full power the bullet he likes for DG didn't perform the way he wanted on target.

I think it's all relative to the intended use.

[ywaltzucanrknrl]

Over the years, I've shot quite a few elk with Nosler Partitions and most have been lung and shoulder shots. I like autopsies and I cut my own meat, so I generally have a good idea of how the bullet performed.

My observation is that the Nosler Partitions separation is mainly due to terminal velocity. Most elk I've shot have been under 100 yards and in nearly all those the Partitions separated. The result certainly was not a failure and the damage to the lungs was substantial. Most of the time I found fragments of the mushroom and the base would be against the hide on the far side.

I have shot a couple of elk at longer distances. In some of those cases the bullet would be intact---the base and mushroom together.

In all cases the bullet penetrated both lungs.

I would not call any of those a failure.

My definition of a failure is a bullet that flies apart near the surface or on a shoulder blade and leaves a nasty flesh wound with no penetration.

FWIW, most cup and core bullets I've shot elk with have separated and disintegrated to some degree, but have still had sufficient penetration to reach both lungs. Over the years I've kept a lot of bullets and labeled them and what they killed----kind of a hobby or memory.