Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

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Bill in Oregon
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Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Have about 50 .348 cases formed and trimmed to .44-77, but the rims are .076-.077 and they will supposedly fit the Shiloh chambers, but not the C. Sharps chambers, which take a thinner .067 rim. This must have been the reamer my gunsmith used. So I need to find a "cartridge machinist" who can uniformly shave .01 off the forward edges of the rims on these cases. Anyone out there wants to raise their hand or direct me to a good source for this work?
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Ray »

Be sitting down or holding on to something solid when you get a quote.

Awhiles back I had a simple project that I ultimately accomplished with a disk grinder and dremel moto tool but I tried a machine shop first thinking $40 fair. The quote was $150 set-up and first hour with $85 per for subsequent hours. The modification to the seating die with the grinder took me 10 minutes and the burring of the shellholder 20 minutes.

Sadly, the shop I queried has since closed due to a combination of health issues and lack of business.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Ray. :shock:
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by GunnyMack »

Would it behoove you to rent a reamer and deepen the chamber so you won't have need to cut rims? Since the head space is determined by the rim chasing the chamber won't effect the headspace.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Blaine »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:57 pm Have about 50 .348 cases formed and trimmed to .44-77, but the rims are .076-.077 and they will supposedly fit the Shiloh chambers, but not the C. Sharps chambers, which take a thinner .067 rim. This must have been the reamer my gunsmith used. So I need to find a "cartridge machinist" who can uniformly shave .01 off the forward edges of the rims on these cases. Anyone out there wants to raise their hand or direct me to a good source for this work?
C. Sharps might re-cut the chamber??
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OldWin
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by OldWin »

Years ago, when I was tool grinding, I made a lathe bit that would turn 357 magnum case rims to function in .351wsl.
While your project is most likely doable, it probably isn't cost effective unless you have the tools to do it yourself.
I think Gunny's idea would be easier in the long run.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Tycer »

Why does it have to be off the forward edge? Can’t you just take it off the rear and deepen the primer pocket? Aren’t most USA primer pockets already cut deeper than European? IIRC primers don’t need to be deeper than the rim more than .050” but often they’re more like .130”
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Rockrat »

He has the right idea of taking off metal from the front of the rim. Gives proper headspace and you don't have to re-cut the primer pocket and thin the brass around the flash hole. A drill press and a new sharp file might work for you. .010" should go fairly quickly
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Sixgun »

Simple......case spinners.......buy the set of seven that will fit every case ever made......chuck em in a drill press, set it on high speed and hit it with a file. I use them all the time for such matters.----006

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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by 765x53 »

Sixgun wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:41 pm Simple......case spinners.......buy the set of seven that will fit every case ever made......chuck em in a drill press, set it on high speed and hit it with a file. I use them all the time for such matters.----006

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What is your source? I have one (Show Me Case Spinner) that I purchased maybe 40 years ago. The original source no longer seems to exist.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Sixgun »

They don't. I've had these for decades and I tried looking them up tonight...nada. I wouldn't sell em for$500.... I guess anyone with a lathe could make a couple of things the common ones....you ought to see how brass shines up with some steel wool on them. :D ....for harder work such as holding a file on them you just give them a tap and they hold tight.

Maybe eBay may have some for sale.---006
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by GunnyMack »

Bill, if you decide to try your hand at filing in a drill press be sure to buy a file that is "safe edge " so you don't cut the wall of the case as you are cutting the rim.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Tycer »

Rockrat wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:39 pm He has the right idea of taking off metal from the front of the rim. Gives proper headspace and you don't have to re-cut the primer pocket and thin the brass around the flash hole. A drill press and a new sharp file might work for you. .010" should go fairly quickly
I get the theory of thinning primer pockets however he’s using a case that’s rated for 40k cup and loading what, maybe 12k? I can’t see how he’d have any issues. And head space? Why does it make a difference which side is thinned? Wouldn’t they both have the exact effect on headspace? If it were a rimless you’d be spot on.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I've asked this question on two or three forums. and get similar advice: chuck them up in a drill press and use a safe-edge file. Might try it, but as one who can ruin all sorts of things in unanticipated ways with astonishing speed, it might be quite a rodeo. John Taylor chambered and fitted this barrel for me and my guess is his reamer is specced to the reamer that C. Sharps uses. One way out of this fix would be to wait for some of the Starline .45-90 now being produced; it's not a perfect fit, being narrower at the base, but it is useable.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Rockrat »

An alternative is to send the rifle back to Mr. Taylor and have him run the reamer in ten thousandths deeper. Send a few cases along so he can set the headspace with your particular cases.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I thought headspace on a rimmed cartridge was defined as the distance from bolt face to the front of the rim (so in essence is 'rim thickness'). If so either the front could be carefully filed so as not to damage case side walls, or the rear could be filed all across the base, but the primer might stick out unless the pocket were deepened, which could weaken the case there, plus any case-head stamping would be messed up.

I think you could make a jig to turn/trim the front of the rims yourself fairly easily but it does make sense to consider having the chamber reamed just a hundredth of an inch further forward.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Mainehunter »

How soon you need this done? I'm a couple months out finishing off my new shop and will be moving my Bridgeport and Southbend lathe there.

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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by marlinman93 »

Using a mandrel in a bottleneck .44-77 case wont support anything but the neck, so when you attempt to cut on the rims they'll usually push away, and wont work well. I make rods from round stock and turn a pin down on the end to fit the primer flash hole. That allows me to chuck the case by it's neck, where the rod is a snug fit, and have the rim held by the pin in the flash hole. Then it's easy to spin them in a drill press and remove material from the rims.
On many cases the primers sit low enough to remove the thickness off the headstamp side of the rims, which is easier than the web side. To remove metal off the web side you'll need a file with no teeth on one side so it doesn't cut into the case as you're trying to thin rims. Doing the headstamp side doesn't have any concerns with that and you can do them easily.
I just kept my gun handy and as I got material removed I dropped the case in the chamber to check it, and repeated for every case I thinned.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gentlemen, a fellow BPC addict in Pennsylvania has offered to modify my cases, so I consider the problem resolved.
As I mentioned on the ASSRA forum, Buffalo Arms offers cases for .44-77 with three rim thicknesses: .085 for original rifles; .076 for Shiloh Sharps rifles; and .067 for C. Sharps chambers. Unfortunately Buffalo Arms has been out of these cases for a couple of years.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Never mind. :oops:
I bought what I was told were .44-77 cases formed from .348. But the reason they would not fully seat in the chamber of my rolling block is because the shoulder on these cases is a bit too far forward. When I run the cases into a .43 Mauser form die, the shoulder is pushed back and the cases seat just fine.
Gad. There's no fool like an old fool, eh?
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by OldWin »

Hey! That was an easy fix. The best one possible IMO.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by GunnyMack »

Hey Bill one word for ya,
CERROSAFE . :lol:

Well now that you know you have a 43 Spanish! So your rolling block is most likely original? I've always liked the old rollers.
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gunny, it was while looking at the shoulder on the cases and the shoulder on my cerrosafe chamber cast that the dim lightbulb started to glow faintly. :lol:
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by GunnyMack »

The bulb is dim but it still glows- thats a good thing!
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Just don't ask me if other stuff works. I'll be 70 in a few weeks. :o :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Sixgun »

It's so easy even a caveman or an NFL player or for that matter Mike Tyson can do it.......could also be done with a handheld drill in a vise but the rpm's wont be as high. The possibilities are endless..case cleaning, primer pocket cleaning, base turning, rim thinning or making a smaller rim diameter, you don't even need a file as sandpaper will do just as good for a couple of thou. ----006

This is at 2800 rpm.

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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Is there a cartridge machinist in the house?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Six, I assume that short rod on the bottom clamped in the vise fits in the primer pocket to stabilize the whole head of the case? Perfect!
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