Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I finally found a Blackhawk with 6 1/2-inch barrel in .41 Magnum that seemed reasonably priced, so I am back in the game. I even have some Lee 210-grain FNs getting powder coated as I jot this down. Prowling around for load data ,I see the 51st edition of the Lyman handbook troubles itself to list loads for only two bullets in .41 Magnum -- 170-grain and 210-grain JHPs, no cast bullet loads. Seems that loading manuals always disappoint and the Lyman manual is no exception.
However, Lyman does show loads for Blue Dot, which is encouraging. I seem to recall that there was a period of time starting in the 1980s where the word on the street was that Blue Dot in .41 Magnum meant trouble, so DON'T USE IT. I might have been a data point for this ban myself. I bought my first Blackhawk in .41 -- 4 5/8-inch barrel -- about 1986 or 1987. I think it was the Sierra manual I was using for recipes with their jacketed hollowpoints, as I am pretty sure my loads were straight from the page, and yet I managed to tie up the Ruger to the point I could not budge the cylinder. First and last time this has happened. I sheepishly shipped the sixgun back to Ruger, admitting that I had fired -- gulp -- handloads that caused the problem, sharing the recipe I had used. Ruger got the revolver running right and sent it back to me with little comment except to stay away from Blue Dot, IIRC.
So seeing published loads again is like seeing a criminal successfully rehabilitated.
I am not that surprised, because a heck of a lot of 10mm shooters have found Blue Dot to be their go-to propellant -- and Lyman lists loads for nine 10mm bullets, six of them with Blue Dot.
User avatar
Ray
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2824
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 am

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Ray »

m.A.g.a. !
User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3423
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by earlmck »

Now that's interesting Ray! In the 357 I have happily shot my little 135 grain cast/gc bullet with 10 grains of Blue Dot with no indication of any problems. Don't have a 41 magnum but would have expected Blue Dot to be quite useful for it.

I'll bet they mean it for just those nasty ole jacketed bullets don't you suppose?
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry
User avatar
GunnyMack
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9936
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
Location: Not where I want to be!

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by GunnyMack »

I remember hearing the Blue Dot formula had changed and that was when it was verboten in the 41. True I dunno. I used to shoot with a few guys that worked for Hercules in the 80's. They were always playing with loads of all kinds, field testing I guess.
I never used BD in anything but 20ga. When I happened onto my Blackhawk 41 I of course poured over load books, old & new. The old data showed BD was good and not in new data... Strange I thought?
I went to 800x only to learn it was discontinued, there goes 28ga loads as well!
I'm not sure but look for Hodgen Universal data, supposedly its filling the hole where 800x was. Of course you have to FIND it on the shelves...
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by piller »

Finding any powder on the shelves is still a difficulty.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Ray, thanks for that. I wonder what it is about that .357 load and .41 Magnums that causes mysterious pressure issues with Blue Dot. I have never knowingly exceeded published maximum loads, ever. Why would it be so useful in 10mm? I first took a shine to it in my very first Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum as it gave "gunwriter accuracy." 8)
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Lyman goes rogue and ignores Alliant hysteria over Blue Dot and .41s ... :lol:

Image
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

I shoot a fair amount of .41 mag with plain base lead bullets. My load is either 19 gr of 4227 under a 210 gr cast bullet or 17 gr of AA9 with a 230 gr bullet. Both shoot very well in my Smiths and Ruger with very minimal leading. The 4227 load's velocity is just over 1200 fps while the AA9 load flies a bit above 1300 fps. An excellent mid-power load is 14.5 gr of AA9 behind a 210 gr bullet for about 1000 fps. Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook gives loading data for several cast lead bullets.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Brian Pearce did a Pet Loads article for .41 magnum in the February 2020 (#324) issue of Handloader magazine. I thought it was interesting that the majority of his potentially most accurate loads were in the mid-power range. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Brian's expertise and experience but I found a couple of his high end loads to be scary.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Page from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Sorry I cut the left side of the page a little short.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

The .41 Magnum has been my main hunting gun for quite a few years. I never messed with plinking loads much, preferring to learn to hit with full power loads. My experimenting IN MY GUN showed that H110/WC820 was the best powder with the 210 gr. XTP bullet. I have taken coyotes, pigs, Javelina, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer and Elk with this combination and never had it fail me.

I shot this back in the late 90's .. sitting in my pasture, resting my back against a fencepost .. 110 yards.
IMG_4424.JPG
Shot this target this summer ... 50 yards .. using a pistol rest.
IMG_4426.JPG
These 2 at 25 yards .. the one back in the 90's ... the other this summer.
IMG_4425.JPG
IMG_4423.JPG
When I was younger and had younger eyes, I never thought twice about a 100 yard shot on a standing deer ... these days I prefer 50 yards. The gun is still very accurate. Me? Not so much.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Great shooting, Jim!
I shoot cast bullets in everything except high intensity rifle loads. I try to be as independent of component and ammo manufacturers as I possibly can.
My eyesight is worsening with age too. I'll probably need cataract surgery in the next year or two and I'm hoping that'll bring some improvement in my vision.
Thanks for your pictures!
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Walt wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:50 am Great shooting, Jim!
I shoot cast bullets in everything except high intensity rifle loads. I try to be as independent of component and ammo manufacturers as I possibly can.
My eyesight is worsening with age too. I'll probably need cataract surgery in the next year or two and I'm hoping that'll bring some improvement in my vision.
Thanks for your pictures!
I have shot cast bullets in the .41 and while they are accurate, I did not find them to stop game as quickly as the XTP bullet. Living in Arizona for many years, I shot a lot of game with cast bullets in .45 Colt. Moving to Missouri and not having open range to hunt on, I wanted to drop the game as fast as possible.

I have a great mold from NEI ... 230 gr. flat nose ... and it is accurate.
IMG_0327.JPG
IMG_0318.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

That NEI mold drops some beautiful bullets! I consider 230 gr bullets to be ideal in .41 mag; anything much heavier requires a taller front sight on my guns. I spent a fair amount of time tryng to get useful loads from my 210 gr Lyman 41610 GC mold but found it to be unsatisfactory. In fact although it was listed in Lyman's manuals for years it is no longer shown. I have a set of RCBS 41-210-SWC molds that produce great bullets and the mold for my 230 grain plain base bullets is from Accurate Molds. I do also have a 230 gr GC mold from Accurate but have found that I get practically no leading from the plain base version.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Jim, I see that you're using RCBS mold handles. I am aggravated that Lyman makes their handles to fit only Lyman molds. I once ordered several of their handles and had to modify them to fit any of my other molds. Took a lot of grinding.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Walt wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:42 am Jim, I see that you're using RCBS mold handles. I am aggravated that Lyman makes their handles to fit only Lyman molds. I once ordered several of their handles and had to modify them to fit any of my other molds. Took a lot of grinding.
Over the years I have modified handles from Lee and Lyman ...the RCBS handles I have never modified.

I have the RCBS 210 gr. SWC mold also. I never found it to be as good as the 230 gr NEI. I like the 210 gr. XTP's but like I said, that is my hunting bullet. This one I cut out of the hide of the cow elk I shot with it. Came within fractions of an inch of exiting the off side. Only lost a couple grains weight going through the elk.
210 gr. XTP.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Talk about ideal perfrmance! Can't ask for much better than that.
Thanks
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Well, phooey. I thought I had posted a comment earlier.
Walt, Jim, thanks for your input. Jim, that NEI 230-grain mold looks like a dandy. I had an NEI mold for some sort of handgun years ago when Walt Melander was still with us. Thank gosh we have Tom at Accurate. I do have Hornady 210 XTPs on hand. I don't have any 4227 or Acc. No. 9 -- do have 2400, Blue Dot, 296, Universal and Unique for the appropriate applications. I actually paid Wolff for that February of 2020 back issue with Brian's write-up, but have yet to receive it weeks later.
I do like to have a plinker, a mid-range and a full-house load worked up for my revolvers.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:30 pm I do like to have a plinker, a mid-range and a full-house load worked up for my revolvers.
I think you have what you need for that. :D
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Jim, I haven't seen a picture of your favorite .41 mag hunting revolver. Is it a factory gun or a custom?
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Walt wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:47 am Jim, I haven't seen a picture of your favorite .41 mag hunting revolver. Is it a factory gun or a custom?
Built by Bowen. Full custom.
1-41left.JPG
2-41right.JPG
IMG_2758.JPG
It was a .44 Super Blackhawk originally. The barrel is Bowen's "ovate rib" .. tapers 3 directions ... Bowen's sights ... whole gun is fitted tightly ... Barrel is Taylor-throated .. I had Gary Reeder install his "set back" trigger that stays back at the rear of the trigger guard .. Milt Morrison of Qualite' Pistol and Revolver changed it to the Bisley grip frame etc ... Paul Persinger made the Ebony grips and hand-checkered them 32 lines to the inch.

It was built for my good friend Jack Pender. He never got to fire it. John Taffin and I did his funeral and after it was over Jack's son came to us and gave each of us a present from his Dad. This was mine. So it has special significance for me. I had never had a .41 before this and suddenly I became a convert.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Grizz »

looks wonderful. do you hunt with it? does it have a favorite load? someone mentioned to me that there's not a Lot of difference between the 41 and 43. I think they have different ancestors, but not sure about the 41 . . ,

User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Grizz wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:25 am looks wonderful. do you hunt with it? does it have a favorite load? someone mentioned to me that there's not a Lot of difference between the 41 and 43. I think they have different ancestors, but not sure about the 41 . . ,

Until I started shooting it I had hunted with my Linebaugh .45 Colt and the Freedom Arms 454 and the Linebaugh 475. The .41 was amazingly accurate and called to me. In my late 60's I gave up the hard recoiling pistols ... traded off the 454 and .475 ... and started hunting exclusively with the .41 Magnum. The hunting load is the 210 gr. XTP over 20 gr. of WC820. As I mentioned above someplace, I have taken everything from coyotes, Javelina, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, and Elk with that load. Recoil is not fierce and it is a very accurate load.
DSC06668.JPG
Opening Day some years ago
deer2004.jpg
A week later
deer4_2004.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Grizz »

nice. I've only ever shot sitka blacktails with my 44. i started using the 44 because i was not happy with the results with the 357, particularly since i was surrounded by thousand pound-ish bears, and the forensic results with the 35 did not seem to scale up to "bear stopper"...

i knew one man who stopped a charging bear with his 44, and i knew of another man who stopped a charging bear at the Sitka dump. both with head shots. so i was encouraged to develop a 325Gr hard cast load for the 10"-ish SBH. i lost count how many deer we ate from that load... it was like having a carbine. all except one time there were two holes and except for the heart shots animals died before they hit the hard deck... the one exception was a straight on head shot where the bullet tracked down the spine and took out several vertebrae. I have that one in the jar.

i never had to shoot a bear, but i credit the Lord with that remarkable answer to prayer. :)

User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Grizz wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:58 am i never had to shoot a bear, but i credit the Lord with that remarkable answer to prayer. :)
I agree with that!

I have never had a sixgun bullet stop in a deer, even on full-length shots ... though I never put one down the spine of a deer and that surely would make a difference. Shooting them through the lungs is sorta like shooting through a loaf or two of bread.
Rockrat
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:35 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Rockrat »

I have a 262 gr SWC mould I got for my 41mag Blackhawk and promptly sold the gun. It shoots well in my 40-65 though
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

Jim, it seems to me that Ross Seyfried once wrote about the Taylor throat. If I remember correctly, the rifling is cut back some distance from the forcing cone in order to precisely line up the bullet prior to entering the rifling. He shot some remarkable 100 yard groups with his Bisley Ruger .44 spls. Is that a more or less accurate assessment?
User avatar
marlinman93
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6432
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by marlinman93 »

I've not used much blue dot for anything. But looking at my RCBS Cast Bullet Manual it too shows loads using blue dot at around 1200-1500 fps range. Lots of data using 296, Unique, 4227, HS6, and Bullseye too.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Walt wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:23 am Jim, it seems to me that Ross Seyfried once wrote about the Taylor throat. If I remember correctly, the rifling is cut back some distance from the forcing cone in order to precisely line up the bullet prior to entering the rifling. He shot some remarkable 100 yard groups with his Bisley Ruger .44 spls. Is that a more or less accurate assessment?
Yessir. It was the only barrel that would do under an inch at 100 yards. He had 4 barrels made .. each with different throats .. and had a huge scope mounted on the sixgun.
This is a poor photo of the throat in my .41 ..
IMG_3294.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Grizz »

I am interested in doing this to my 44 redhawk, along with fitting the chambers to the ammo, and maybe a trigger job. gotta do it before i'm too puny to hold it LOL

have you written anything with specifics on who does it, or how to do it? and where the reamer comes from, etc. i want to get this redhawk out performing my old SBH, if that's possible.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Gary Reeder has improved it for heavy bullets and offers it as a "Maxi Throat" ... I am not sure if Hamilton Bowen is still doing it but you could contact him. Brownell's used to sell the reamers in a "throating" kit but they have not offered it in years. I don't know if any other custom 'smiths are offering it or not.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
When we were doing the testing of the throating, these are some of the results that we got.

My Linebaugh custom Blackhawk .45 Colt shot well only with bullets sized .450" before throating. After throating, testing the gun I fired 25 5-shot groups at 25 yards with 3 different bullet diameters using a variety of bullets. Where the gun originally was particular to the bullet diameter, now it shot well with any of these sizes:

.450" diameter averaged 2.3"
.452" diameter averaged 1.8"
.454" diameter averaged 1.99"

The velocity increased also.
throating2.JPG
Not all calibers gave increases in velocity. All the calibers we tried showed increases in accuracy. The concept was given to Wesson Arms and they did extensive testing of it and afterwards included it in their accuracy package.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, that's a really lovely .41 revolver you have there, and it obviously works extremely well in your hands.
I might have asked this before, but wasn't it your Dad who came up with the Taylor throat?
I note that friend Dave Manson offers 11-degree throat cutters on page 19 of his current catalog.

https://mansonreamers.files.wordpress.c ... alog-1.pdf
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:33 pm Jim, that's a really lovely .41 revolver you have there, and it obviously works extremely well in your hands.
I might have asked this before, but wasn't it your Dad who came up with the Taylor throat?

Yes. Dad initially came up with the idea during WWII when he was at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. He did some of his own guns. The first one he and I did was my Linebaugh .45 Colt. I had started getting throat erosion and Dad felt this might control it, which it did. He later gave the idea to the Wesson brothers. During the war Major Wesson helped him get into the MP's and he wanted to repay him somehow. After they tested it they adopted it as part of their accuracy package. Later at the NRA Convention they presented him with a custom .445 Super Mag revolver that had 2 barrels ... a long one and a short one. The serial number was his name.
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, that's a wonderful story. Your Dad must have been quite a guy -- and we know he was a good father. 8)
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Thanks Bill. He came up with quite a few unique ideas about handguns and handgun ammo ... patented some of them ... gave most all of them away. He never cared much about money. He enjoyed doing and building. Some of the last projects he worked on before Alzheimer's robbed him was rifling pistol barrels. He made his own rifling tools and built gain-twist barrels in .44 and .45 caliber.

He also built some complete handguns. He started that at quite a young age .. in his teens. During WWII at Aberdeen Proving Grounds he built a miniature 1911 that was a single shot .22 Long Rifle. It looked just like a 1911 but about 1/3 size. He gave it to his commanding officer who had it engraved and I believe, silver plated.

He had his own gunshop and did gunsmithing back in the 1950's. He once built me a single shot .22 rifle on a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun. I was about 9 years old and used to shoot it in the basement using BB and CB .22's.

Lots of good memories.
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8846
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, that's just amazing.
I am so very, very sorry that Alzheimer's took him away. My mom was diagnosed at 64, and lived 12 years with the incredible care my poor born-again father provided -- feeding her, clothing her, wiping her behind. Some might cringe at this, but you ain't been in the trenches if you do. She could not say my name for the last decade of her life.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:34 pm Jim, that's just amazing.
I am so very, very sorry that Alzheimer's took him away. My mom was diagnosed at 64, and lived 12 years with the incredible care my poor born-again father provided -- feeding her, clothing her, wiping her behind. Some might cringe at this, but you ain't been in the trenches if you do. She could not say my name for the last decade of her life.
I understand Bill. Been there. My Dad had it for 10 years. My wife and I took care of him and Mom for all but the last year or a bit over.
Walt
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Location: NM

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by Walt »

John Taffin, like many others does not hold the .41 magnum near and dear to his heart.
Nevertheless, he wrote in his book, "Big Bore Handguns" that he did a test on an early Freedom Arms model 83 in .41 mag and it performed amazingly well, shooting groups at 100 yards that were in the 1 1/2" range. He said it was one of the most accurate revolvers he had ever shot. He stated that one of his major complaints with the .41 mag is that heavy-for-caliber loads, which he prefers over standard bullet weights do not shoot well in generally available revolvers. His FA revolver had a 1:14" twist which allowed fine accuracy with heavier projectiles. Smith with a 1:18 3/4" twist and Ruger, utilizing a 1:20" do much better with standard weight bullets.
Also, in his Pet Loads article on the .41 magnum, Brian Pearce notes that SAAMI's established maximum chamber pressure was originally set at 43,500 CUP (same as the .44 mag) but has since been changed to 36,000 CUP. I have often wondered about this because having been introduced in 1964, no revolvers chambered in .41 mag should have been made with inferior steels, so the issue must lie with the greater energy released by modern powders compared to what was manufactured six decades ago.
In any case, it's a fine caliber and one that I enjoy.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

I think at least some of the reason for reducing powder charges lies in decisions made by lawyers.
User avatar
CowboyTutt
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by CowboyTutt »

Ran the data on the .41 Mag at 36K PSI with a 210, Hornady HP/XTP #41000. Lil' Gun had a 37 fps advantage to H110/Win 296/WC 820 (the last is I believe a military surplus powder but Jim, please correct me!). All 3 are the same except for when made and lot variations I suspect. Somehow I don't think the elk will notice the additional 37 fps (that was calculated out of a 7.5 inch barrel BTW.) H110/Win 296 is a little harder to ignite and needs some compression to work well as most everyone already knows. Lil' Gun ignites easier and burns a bit hotter. If Lil' Gun works good, then almost certainly Alliant 300 MP would also work good, and quite likely better, but it is not in the Quick Load data base because it has a dual coating of deterrents (ignition retardants) that renders it unpredictable to the Quick Load algorithm.

Also, this is only at 36 K PSI. A FA Model 83 in 41 Mag (they used to make them, not sure they do now?) would be much stronger. The Lil Gun load I calculated, and this is just predicted, was doing 1617 fps out of a 7.5 inch barrel at 100.6% fill! Smokin! And still some room! :D

I love this stuff! :lol:

-Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)

"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
User avatar
CowboyTutt
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by CowboyTutt »

P.S. Blue Dot came in around 1524 fps under similar criteria of 36K PSI but the fill was lower at about 93.5%. -T-
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)

"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Blue Dot and the .41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

The problem with Lil Gun in the .41 FA was it ate the throat very quickly. Freedom Arms did not recommend it.

And yes, WC820 is Military Surplus H110.
Post Reply