Question for w30wcf
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Question for w30wcf
Hello John. I have some questions for you. I read an article you wrote that you stated that Winchester did not start marking the 44WCF heads until 1886. If this is correct, then can you tell me where you got this information? The reason is I made a statement a while back, jokingly, that the 38WCF came before the 44WCF. Meaning that Winchester still called the soon to be 44WCF the Model of 1873 and the 38WCF was stamped 38WCF. But now I would like to know. Was I correct?
Thanks, Gobbler
Thanks, Gobbler
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Gobblerforge,
Experienced cartridge collectors place the date in 1886 since that is the year that headstamps first appeared in the catalogs. Also, Dan Schuey, in his book, W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges And Their Variations mentions that.
The '73 Winchester was first introduced in .44 caliber. Below is a pic of the earliest cartridge box for the '73 showing the caliber as 44/100. The .38 W.C.F. came along 6 years later in 1879.
w30wcf
Experienced cartridge collectors place the date in 1886 since that is the year that headstamps first appeared in the catalogs. Also, Dan Schuey, in his book, W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges And Their Variations mentions that.
The '73 Winchester was first introduced in .44 caliber. Below is a pic of the earliest cartridge box for the '73 showing the caliber as 44/100. The .38 W.C.F. came along 6 years later in 1879.
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Question for w30wcf
I don't think you understood the question as I asked it. Sorry about that. I'm sure we can all agree that the first rounds that came in the model 1873 were 44 cal. But if I understand it, Winchester called the cartridge The "Winchester Model OF 1873" and not the "44WCF". Then in 1879. in the Winchester catalog, they have the 38WCF being introduced. The 44 caliber is still being advertised as the "Winchester Model of 1873" and not the "44WCF". Now if the 38WCF cartridges were marked as such, and the Model of 1873 cartridges didn't start being marked ,until six or seven years later in 1886, as "44WCF", then semanticly, the 38WCF came before the 44WCF. Is this correct?
Gobbler
Gobbler
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Gobblerforge wrote:But if I understand it, Winchester called the cartridge The "Winchester Model OF 1873" and not the "44WCF". Then in 1879. in the Winchester catalog, they have the 38WCF being introduced. The 44 caliber is still being advertised as the "Winchester Model of 1873" and not the "44WCF".
Gobblerforge,
Now I understand. Yes, the catalog cartridge illustration up until at least 1882, did indicate "Model Winchester 1873" while the .38 W.C.F. was so labeled. The name .44 W.C.F. does appear in the 1878 Winchester catalog but under the rifle illustrations.
Both cartridges would have started carrying headstamps in 1886, so headstamp identification began at the same time.
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Got it. thanks. I thought the 38WCF headstamp started before and not simultaniously with the 44WCF headstamp.
Gobbler
Gobbler
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Another question that should have come to mind earlier. Were there any rounds being head stamped prior to 1886. In the 1879 catalog picture it shows all seven rounds that Winchester was making at that point. I never noticed before but none appear to have a head stamp.
Gobbler
Gobbler
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Gobbler,
According to the book, "W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges and Their Variations" some shotshells were being headstamed in the late 1870's.
Also, .45-70 contract cartridges produced for the military were headstamped, not with the caliber, but with the month and the year (2 digits) going back to the 1870's.
w30wcf
According to the book, "W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges and Their Variations" some shotshells were being headstamed in the late 1870's.
Also, .45-70 contract cartridges produced for the military were headstamped, not with the caliber, but with the month and the year (2 digits) going back to the 1870's.
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
- J Miller
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Re: Question for w30wcf
John,
Is the book: "W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges and Their Variations" still in print? If so where do I get one?
Joe
Is the book: "W.R.A. CO. Headstamped Cartridges and Their Variations" still in print? If so where do I get one?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Question for w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
- Bryan Austin
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Just a blast from the past!
44-40 website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/
44-40 Forum - https://44-40.forumotion.com/?fbclid=Iw ... XqHFnpPtgI
aka Savvy Jack
44-40 Forum - https://44-40.forumotion.com/?fbclid=Iw ... XqHFnpPtgI
aka Savvy Jack
- J Miller
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Re: Question for w30wcf
I never did get a copy of that book. Now the link is dead ...
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: Question for w30wcf
The Lord Bless You
Terry
Terry
- J Miller
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Re: Question for w30wcf
Terry,
Searching has always been a PITA for me. Google especially.
Thanks for the link.
Joe
Searching has always been a PITA for me. Google especially.
Thanks for the link.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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