OT Character assassination.

[ScottT]

Old Ironsights wrote:

It's not like he was out Raging around on unprescribed 'roids and capping people.

For those of you who do not know what is going on here, this is an attempt at character assasination. Perhaps it is time to get this out in the open.

Most of my friends here, and certainly all of the Shootists know that I was once a police officer in Houston. During my tour there, I had to shoot 4 men in the line of duty, three of them fatally. The 1980s were pretty turbulent in that part of the world and this was not an uncommon thing.

In 1989, I was involved in a gunfight that started as a traffic stop. When I approached the car, there was a gun on the seat and the driver went for it though I repeatedly told him not to. I had to kill him to preserve my life. I feel real bad about that, but it was something I was forced to do.

Unfortunately for me, there was another shooting that preceeded mine by a couple of weeks wherein the officers involved were drunk and off duty. The two shootings became linked up in the politics of the moment as Representitive Mickey Leland had been killed in a plane crash and all of the black politicians were vying for his congressional seat. I guess my shooting was not as sexy as some of the politicos needed and so there arose certain allegations, none of which were true.

It was alleged that I stood over the body and pumped rounds into the driver "execution style." That did not fly because of the positioning of the body and the positioning of the ejected cases.

It was alleged that I planted the gun on the driver. But that did not fly because the gun belonged to his employer.

Finally it was alleged that I was using steroids and that I shot the guy in a steroid-induced rage. That did not fly either, because we did immediate drug testing and hair samples that showed that I was not on anything, but also that I had not been on anything.

I have never taken an illegal drug in my life. Yet, you have guys like this Old Ironsights who come out from under the woodwork to try to impune my good name.

Why? Have I wronged him here or elsewhere? Who knows?

I was there. I told the same thing to the Homicide detectives, the DA, to IAD, to the FBI, to the Grand Jury, to Baylor Law School, to the State Bar, to my Masonic Lodge, to the Shootists and now to you.

Nothing has changed. I have been investigated in every way possible by each and every entity, and the results always come out the same. The evidence does not lie.

I did not pin on the badge to hurt anyone, but to help those who could not help themselves. To stand up for folks who were victims of criminals. To this day, I will not defend a criminal in the courtroom. I am on the other side of the fence and will always be.

If you don't like me....feel that way for something I said or did, but don't hide behind a screen name and take pot shots at my good name.

Scott Tschirhart

[Pete44ru]

No one deserves a cheap shot, especially for thoughts posted on something like a forum, for God's sake.

I, for one, had no clue what that reference alluded to, but I'm proud that you're man enough to clarify it for all to see. Thank you, Scott.

I know what I would have done, in a similar face-to-face situation, and it wouldn't have been gentlemanly.

[rob]

I can count on one hand the individuals to whom I would entrust my family, my possessions or in which I would place my implicit trust to have my back come hell or high water. One of these men is Scott Tschirhart. One thing I've NEVER heard him do is comment on someone else's character based on hearsay.

[Terry Murbach]

WELL NOW, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT BROUGHT ALL THIS ON, AND I DO NOT KNOW A FELLOW WITH THE NOM DE PLUME,' OLD IRONSIGHTS.
I DO KNOW THE WRITER OF THE FIRST POST HERE AND HE IS A STANDUP MAN OF THE FIRST WATER. HE CAN BACK ME ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, AND ANYPLACE. I WILL BACK HIM ANYTIME ANYWHERE, AND ANY PLACE. WE WOULD COME OUT OF WHATEVER THE SCRAPE WAS UNSCATHED SURE AS GOD MADE LITTLE GREEN APPLES; TAKE IT TO THE BANK !!!
I TRUST SCOTT TSCHIRHART WITH ALL I HAVE WHERE EVER HE NEEDS IT FOR AS LONG AS HE NEEDS IT. HE IS ONE OF FOUR MAN I CAN SAY THIS ABOUT.
HE HAS HAD HIS DETRACTORS OVER THE YEARS, MOST OF WHICH COULDN'T PICK UP SCOTT'S JOCKSTRAP. HE HAS NEVER LIED TO ME, HE HAS NEVER LIED TO THE SHOOTISTS, AND HE HAS NEVER TRIED TO SUGAR COAT ANYTHING IN HIS WORK AS A POLICE OFFICER. IT IS WHAT IT IS AND HAS WITHSTOOD EVERY INVESTIGATION FROM ALL THOSE WHO'S ONLY HOPE WAS TO DISCREDIT SCOTT ANY WAY THEY COULD. DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY ALL FAILED ??? THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE !!!

[Hobie]

Thanks for posting that Terry... Scott, you should not have felt you needed to post that.

[ScottT]

Hobie,

I appreciate that. This was not the first time it was alluded to, and I had ignored it on previous occasions. It's probably better to get it out in the open. I never did anything I was ashamed of and I never went out to hurt anybody.

Terry,

You would never have to wonder if I were still there, nor would I wonder if you were.

There are only two things I judge a man by, not how much money he has or how good he looks. Only two things are important: 1) What will he do when he thinks nobody is looking? and 2) Will he be there when the going gets tough? Nothing else really matters.

You my friend have proven your worth time and again and I would ride the river with you to any place.

Rob,

You know I feel the same way about you. I don't deserve friends like you, but I am awfully glad that you are there.

[Hobie]

Hobie,

I appreciate that. This was not the first time it was alluded to, and I had ignored it on previous occasions. It's probably better to get it out in the open. I never did anything I was ashamed of and I never went out to hurt anybody.

I know it wasn't the first time. I think it is all too easy for some to say such things when they aren't face-to-face. I expect better of the people on this board.

[bj94]

Scott, I don't think you have to defend yourself here. If someone posts something negative about you, we would all know better.

[505stevec]

Where did he post this? I looked back into early April and couldnt find it. Was it on the General Discussion Board? What was the topic?

[model55]

+1 for hobie-don't feel we need to relive our past to defend ourselves here -not what this forum is for!There is not one of us that doesn't have some unforunate turn in life we would rather not have had. It need not be public laundry.

[Rusty]

People never surprise me anymore, they just disappointment me.


Totally uncalled for.

Scott you don't have to prove anything to anyone.

[rjohns94]

Thanks Terry for your post. ScottT, you know who has your back, anytime, anyplace.

[C. Cash]

What the others said for sure Scott, but in OI's defense, could what he said have been a coincidence? Hopefully OI will chime in here.

[sore shoulder]

Geez, I saw the post, but didn't catch the reference. Not sure I'd have bought that one, I've known Scott here for some time and it would seem a little incongruous. I dont agree with him all the time, and he has gotten my dander up, but I don't think he's a bad person.

[kimwcook]

I personally don't know Scott, wish I did. During my short tenure on this forum he has never said anything personally attacking anyone. He may have a different view on a topic but it's a different view, not an attack. I've read nothing but strong personal support for him and his values from people that do know him and that have proven themselves on this forum to be of high standing.

On another note, I've seen as of late a few on this forum that focus more and more on attacking certain professions or positions and it really pulls this fine forum into arguments and lines of defense that don't belong here. It's getting old.

[Old Ironsights]

Gentlemen, if I had intended to publicly impune Scott to the members of this Forum, I would have attempted to do so in a much more obvious way. Note that none of you made any inferences from the comment. It was a personal attack only in that Scott chooses to take it so.

Scott: I am fully aware you were "no billed", so you are innocent of the legal charges that were leveled against you. Since you are innocent of those charges, then the comment isn't/wasn't really applicable to you, is it?

Regardless of whether the situation I described relates to you or any other unnamed person in specific, the difference between the two situations discussed in that thread is demonstrably correct.

A man is only a "Doper" if he misuses a drug - prescribed or not - for personal gain/pleasure. That is the simple Truth.

I'm sorry you're offended, and you are more than welcome to take it out on me, but I'm more dissapointed that you refuse to adhere to, or seemingly accept as valid, the very principles, (in particular Presumption of Innocence), that assured you were able to take the Bar and lead a successful life after the issues in Houston. I think Matthew 18:23-35 is appropriate in this context.

[Tom Richardson]

Scott and Terry. When you ride the river or go to the wall can a deaf old fat man ride along?
My little Brother Scott is a man of character and is morally upstanding.
Terry is a good friend and a more trustworthy man you can not find.
Me? I am what I am but these men are still my friends.

[BruceB]

Scott, just consider the source.

[BruceB]

OI, if he's on methadone, he's a doper. Once doper, always a doper. Just as alcoholics are always alcoholics.

[piller]

If he was on the 40 mg methadone he was a doper, if he was on the other strengths he wasn't. I see more dopers on hydrocodone/apap than you can shake a stick at, but only on so far on methadone. If you add carisoprodol (Soma) with the hydrocodone/apap there is a huge chance that the person will become addicted. Just being on methadone is not proof that he was a doper. His stupid actions show that he was a criminal, and probably dangerous to others. Let's be accurate.

[Old Ironsights]

Bruce, are you reading these threads?

Methadone can and IS prescribed for more than getting off dope.

We've had both Doctors and Pharmacists verify this.

I've shown he could not BE an employee at Wal Mart if he was taking methadone to get off smack.

None of this discounts the validity of the arrest and we are not trying to cut this guy a break for his actions.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[El Mac]

Not to detract from Scott's post...how bout this OI? Doper is slang for someone on meds...illegal or legal, scrip or non-scrip. Its just a word. Would you prefer something on the order of "a medicated gentleman"?

Good grief.

[Blaine]

Not to detract from Scott's post...how bout this OI? Doper is slang for someone on meds...illegal or legal, scrip or non-scrip. Its just a word. Would you prefer something on the order of "a medicated gentleman"?

Good grief.

El Mac......Good Grief......Think about what you just wrote; People legally on meds are NOT frickken "dopers"...a doper is an abuser of drugs.

[BruceB]

Yes OI, I 've been reading the threads. Have you? He was fired from Wal Mart. Do you think he told 'em up front he's a doper? Of course he wouldn't lie about it would he!

[Old Ironsights]

Not to detract from Scott's post...how bout this OI? Doper is slang for someone on meds...illegal or legal, scrip or non-scrip. Its just a word. Would you prefer something on the order of "a medicated gentleman"?

Good grief.

Yes. Good Grief. I have yet to find a non-perjorative definition, slang or otherwise, that would include using medications as prescribed. Maybe you can enlighten us.

------------------------------
doper, English, Noun
Singular - doper
Plural - dopers

doper (plural dopers)

1: (pejorative) One who uses performance enhancing substances for competitive gain, especially illegally.
2: (pejorative) One who frequently uses recreational drugs; a druggie; a stoner.
3: (obsolete) person employed to apply dope solution during aircraft manufacture.

Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/doper"
---------------------------
doper Definition doper (dōp′ər)

noun

Slang a drug addict

http://www.yourdictionary.com/doper
---------------------------
dop•er

Pronunciation: (dō'pur), [key]
—n. Slang.
1. a drug addict.
2. pusher (def. 2).

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease.
---------------------------------
The closest I can find is this:

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary
Main Entry: dop·er
Pronunciation: 'dO-p&r
Function: noun
: an habitual or frequent user of drugs

--------------------------------
So, unless you are wiling to ignore general usage and use either a slang-resistant Medical Dictionary or obsolete usages, I find your argument unpersuasive.

[El Mac]

Exactly Blaine...thats what I was getting at. Someone that abuses illegal, legal, scrip or non-scrip drugs. Sorry if I wasn't clear...

I just don't see the rallying cry for a guy that was clearly off kilter and well on his way to doing untold damage to innocent folk out shopping or working at Wal Mart. I'm not trying to offend anyone on this board with those thoughts. I don't believe anyone on this board is going off half-cocked dropping clues that he is on his way to become "famous"...

[Blaine]

Exactly Blaine...thats what I was getting at. Someone that abuses illegal, legal, scrip or non-scrip drugs. Sorry if I wasn't clear...

I just don't see the rallying cry for a guy that was clearly off kilter and well on his way to doing untold damage to innocent folk out shopping or working at Wal Mart. I'm not trying to offend anyone on this board with those thoughts. I don't believe anyone on this board is going off half-cocked dropping clues that he is on his way to become "famous"...

This one had a hot button for me.......sorry.

[Jarhead]

I admire and respect you for doing your job and for standing up for yourself....I think that "Turd" that from the "Walmart" deserved/asked to be apprehended....Crazy Bastard! I don't care what anybody says...sounds like he got what he wanted and I'm glad he didn't shoot anybody!! The Cops got him before he had a chance...as far as I'm concerned they should give him an "Overdose" and put him out of his misery!

[Old Ironsights]

Exactly Blaine...thats what I was getting at. Someone that abuses illegal, legal, scrip or non-scrip drugs. Sorry if I wasn't clear...

I've only said this exact thing a couple of times...

I just don't see the rallying cry for a guy that was clearly off kilter and well on his way to doing untold damage to innocent folk out shopping or working at Wal Mart.

Not rallying around him. Not at all. I'm distressed over the dismissal of the idea of "Presumed Innocent" evidenced by the automatic use of perjoritives - not to mention dangerous questions like "why did he have 60 rounds?" We've already had one Magazine Ban come out of thinking like that.

[NonPCnraRN]

All I know of Scott is what he posts and from that I have come to the conclusion that he is a stand up guy. He also calls a spade a spade and that can annoy people at times. I also take Old Ironsights at his word that he didn't intentionally try to impune Scott. He stated this here and in another topic. Now as to pain management, I was an Oncology nurse, a Hospice nurse and wound nurse. I also had both shoulder joints replaced and I am on Hydrocodone (Norco,Vicodin). I had a kidney transplant in 1970 and while I enjoy a fairly normal life I CANNOT take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs ie Advil, Celebrex or I can taste the uremia building up in my mouth, the same taste I had as a kid on dialysis for 3 years. Like Blaine, I do not consider myself a doper. As a matter of fact, Hydrocodone makes me more alert. I found this to be true with other people when performing my duties as a nurse. I also was helping a friend get the pain relief she needed following a job injury. The worker's comp doc is an idiot. He put her on Celebrex with a history of gastric bleeding and GERD. But her Kaiser primary wasn't much better. You know why the third world doesn't have any doctors? They all work at Kaiser. This twit was afraid of keeping my friend on Norco for her back, hip and knee pain and prescibed methadone. Long story short, she had a terrible reaction to methadone, made as much sense as Hilary doing shooters and beer chasers. I had 3 docs since then question the competence of the doctor who put her on methadone. I had to taper my friend off the methadone as she was having withdrawl symptoms so I know it is addicting. But I have also used it on Hospice patients with very good effect. Now as to why they use it for people in methadone clinics... it comes in liq form and you can add it to juice and they can't tell how much they are getting as you taper them off. It was invented in WWII by the Germans as a pain medication. It has been around a long time and is a very inexpensive drug to use to rehab narcotic addicts. I also have drug rehab experience as a nurse and it is true, once an addict always an addict. Most honest addicts and alcoholics will freely admit this. That's how they stay clean & sober. It would also be very risky giving an addict a bottle of pills and expect him or her to take them as directed. Sorry for going on but I felt I needed to add to the knowledge base regarding the APPROPRIATE use of pain meds. Getting back to the original subject, I see Scott as a stand up guy....unless he is kneeling next to a deer he shot with his 44 spl with a big grin on his face! I also will give OI the benefit of the doubt as he has twice stated that he meant no personal malice towards Scott. Nuff said.

[Rexster]

I believe ScottT can defend himself on this forum quite well without my help, but anyone who tries to assasinate his character will have a difficult time redeeming himself in my eyes. I want to add my name to the list of those who say ScottT can back me up anytime, and I would trust him with the safety of anyone in my family. While we were never closely acquainted during the time we were peace officers in the same town, to this day, if I got the word he needed my meager skill and marksmanship to back him up, I would drop everything and head to San Antonio as fast as my Jeep's off-road tires will allow.

FWIW, I still use ScottT's shooting incident as a cautionary tale, when training my rookies, as an example of how you can do everything right in a shooting, and still lose your job due to politics.

I still want to remain relatively anonymous, because statements I have made here should not be made publicly while being clearly identifiable as a member of my police agency, but I am widely known as Rexster where I work, and I have posted enough here on Leverguns to enable just about anyone to figure out my true identity.

[3855]

The lack of this kind of thread is what has made this site a special place.
If a continuation of this or similiar types continue I won't be around. I suspect many feel the same way.

[Hobie]

This horse is well and truly beaten. I declare it fully tenderized and prepared for consumption. I'm locking this topic. Let's talk lever guns.