OT - Would you take a polygraph to get a job???

[RSY]

Been cursorily looking at maybe signing on with the local sheriff's office or PD. However, one of them wants a polygraph as part of the application process.

Personally, I kind of have a problem with that. If they can't judge me based on my resume, references, and personal character as determined through the interview process, I'm not sure I want to be a part of them.

What think ye?

Scott

[handirifle]

Tough one. I've nothing to hide, but all it takes is some moron asking a wrong question or asking it the wrong way.

Will they tell you what the questions are? I doubt it.

[kimwcook]

Sure did. That's why I work for the Sheriff's Office. It's a standard test generally across the nation. I know it's hard to believe but people lie to the police.

Polygraphs are a tool to attempt at getting what you're paying for, nothing more or nothing less.

A good polygrapher won't leave you hanging on things that could make you undesireable.

[Pete44ru]

Nope.

[Old Ironsights]

It all depends on who is runng the Poly.

If it's "in house"... no.

If it is contracted out to an impartial 3rd party... sure.

The tech these days is pretty good, but it can't be administered by anyone but a 110% dedicated-to the Truth & the integrety of the Testing- Professional.

[don Tomás]

I have, about 4 times if I remember correctly. Security Clearance in the AF, then for the Municipal Police Agency I worked for, and a couple of times for a defense contractor I worked for in the Silicon Valley after I retired from the PD. The last ones were a breeze, as they didn't give a hoot about "sex, drugs and rock & roll" (just loyalty and allegiance).

It is a hassle and an intrusion, I suppose, but nobody is making you take it. If you want the job (it was a great career, for me) you just jump through the silly hoops they hold up.

I bet the agency requiring the poly doesn't really care about that time you and your cousin smoked dope on that camping trip way back when. They want to see if you will lie (excuse me, mis-speak) about it. It's more about discovering veracity than about anything else. We were all young and stupid at some point in our lives! Just tell the truth...

[RSY]

Sure did. That's why I work for the Sheriff's Office. It's a standard test generally across the nation. I know it's hard to believe but people lie to the police.

Polygraphs are a tool to attempt at getting what you're paying for, nothing more or nothing less.

A good polygrapher won't leave you hanging on things that could make you undesireable.

I hear what you're saying, but...

Employment, ideally, is be a contract between two equal parties; one rendering services, the other rendering payment. That's how I see it, and if a polygraph is fair game, then I should be able to require my potential supervisor to take one composed of some questions from me, as well.

I just have always had a real problem with the concept and efficacy of polygraphs and similar. I guess I'm just delusional to the extent that I think someone's word should still be worth something, especially if backed by a solid track record.

Thanks for all the input, gents.

Scott

[Hobie]

I have, I would, it isn't admissable in a court of law, is it? Seriously, for some things I completely understand it. To work a production line they can say goodbye.

[RSY]

I bet the agency requiring the poly doesn't really care about that time you and your cousin smoked dope on that camping trip way back when.

I was wondering where I'd seen your avatar before. That's it!!!

[don Tomás]

I bet the agency requiring the poly doesn't really care about that time you and your cousin smoked dope on that camping trip way back when.

I was wondering where I'd seen your avatar before. That's it!!!

Now I gotta warn you, if you go to a poly looking like this, you may be in there a while....
Tom

[2571]

May be standard in the US but it's illegal in Michigan. We outlawed if for employment purposes after so many complaints about questions like what church do you go to, have you ever engaged in this or that sexual practice and do you have any important medical history that we forgot to ask you about.

Scientiffically unreliable & immoral practice for use in employment situations.

[FWiedner]

If you want the job, you'll do what it takes to open the door.

Me, I look at a polygraph the same way I look at the metal detectors at the airport, as an intrusion on my privacy.

I'm sure that there is some essential security consideration, or some incredibly critical test of trustworthiness, but I don't care to jump through hoops.

[tman]

i work for a corporation that requires drug testing. not happy about it. but its the way things are today. so many of our personal freedoms are and have been taken away, beginning in 1981. but what can you do? you gotta make a living. and NOBODY wants to fight to get them back.

[Andrew]

i work for a corporation that requires drug testing. not happy about it. but its the way things are today. so many of our personal freedoms are and have been taken away, beginning in 1981. but what can you do? you gotta make a living. and NOBODY wants to fight to get them back.

Smoking dope is no longer a "freedom" when you are around other people( like at a job).

[tman]

obviousley, i don't smoke it or i woundn;t have a job today. it's NODOBIES buisness what i do in my personal life, as long as i dont do it , or under the influence or it, while i,m on my employer's clock. it's an intrusion into my personal life, which, i feel, the employer has no right to do. drugs today, alcohol tommorrow, the nicotine, caffiene, next is body fat analyisis, what about my hobbies, are they considered dangerous? where you gonna draw the line?

[ScottT]

I have on several occasions. I don't have a problem with it.

But then again, I have never done anything that would keep me from getting such a job.

[Sixgun]

I have, I would, it isn't admissable in a court of law, is it? Seriously, for some things I completely understand it. To work a production line they can say goodbye.

Thats how I feel. If you want the job bad enough. Me? I'm a peon and no job I'm skilled for warrants a test-----------Sixgun

[Griff]

Having worked personnel/background investigations for an SO, it ain't a big deal. SOP is usually you fill out an application, and a pre-poly questionaire. During to polygraph, you'll be asked questions 'bout your answers on those two forms.

Don't lie on any of them, no problem.

They aren't trying to entrap ya, but are giving you the opportunity to trap yourself. If you've liberated soime pens & paper from a forner employer, fess up; for who hasn't. But lie about such a trivial makes me wonder what else WOULD you lie about? Back in the '80s when I worked the detail, a guy raised in the late '60-'70s told me he'd NEVER smoked pot... skeptical ain't even close.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[AJMD429]

If you want the job, you'll do what it takes to open the door.
Me, I look at a polygraph the same way I look at the metal detectors at the airport, as an intrusion on my privacy.
I'm sure that there is some essential security consideration, or some incredibly critical test of trustworthiness, but I don't care to jump through hoops.

I'll second that. If you trust me, hire me; if you don't fine. If you trust some gizmo to sort people out, versus your own interview skills, background checks, and intuition, then I'm not inclined to want to work for you because I don't trust you!

And if a business/place doesn't trust me with a firearm, then exactly what is their problem, and what are they planning to do that requires me to be disarmed? I doubt the local pizza place wants to stage an ambush, but if they just want to let me be a body as a 'collateral damage' problem so they can have a lawyer-appeasing sign to defend THEM against some lawsuit, then they care more about what their lawyer says than they do my safety, so what kind of decisions are they going to make about the quality or safety of the food they serve?

As an aside, if I see the 'no guns' sign on a business, I try to make it a point to go place a large order, reserve the banquet room, or set up a meeting to start an account, or whatever the business offers. Then, after the deal is almost done, I pretend to just notice the 'no gun' sign, and call it off on the spot, explaining that I can't patronize a business which would require some young mother to leave her gun in the car so she can get assaulted in the parking lot on her way out. If I've had the time, I check out competitors and find one which isn't anti-gun, and pointedly switch my account or whatever activity to that business, letting them BOTH know why I did it. We've had a couple businesses around here take their signs down over the years by doing that kind of thing.

[ScottT]

Employment, ideally, is be a contract between two equal parties; one rendering services, the other rendering payment. That's how I see it, and if a polygraph is fair game, then I should be able to require my potential supervisor to take one composed of some questions from me, as well.

In what alternativee universe? Employment is never between two equal parties. Life does not work that way.

If I did not have something you wanted, you would not come to work for me. It can never be an equal relationship as long as one is employed by the other.

[kimwcook]

As stated, the administration is looking to see if you'll lie about things you've done. Generally they aren't concerned about the offense, except something about making sheep nervous.

And RSY if you really think it's tit for tat about you having to take a poly so you supervisor should I think you need to look for a different line of work. As a peace officer there's lot's of things you'll be told to do by your supervisors that they won't even think of doing themselves. And, you'd better not ask about it or you'll be looking to take another poly for someone else. Most of the times it's not do as I do but do as I say.

[ScottT]

obviousley, i don't smoke it or i woundn;t have a job today. it's NODOBIES buisness what i do in my personal life, as long as i dont do it , or under the influence or it, while i,m on my employer's clock. it's an intrusion into my personal life, which, i feel, the employer has no right to do. drugs today, alcohol tommorrow, the nicotine, caffiene, next is body fat analyisis, what about my hobbies, are they considered dangerous? where you gonna draw the line?

I have nine employees. If I find out one of them is using recreational drugs, they are gone immediately. I dont trust no good doper any more than I trust a child molester. It's that simple.

[BruceB]

obviousley, i don't smoke it or i woundn;t have a job today. it's NODOBIES buisness what i do in my personal life, as long as i dont do it , or under the influence or it, while i,m on my employer's clock. it's an intrusion into my personal life, which, i feel, the employer has no right to do. drugs today, alcohol tommorrow, the nicotine, caffiene, next is body fat analyisis, what about my hobbies, are they considered dangerous? where you gonna draw the line?

LEO's don't have a personal life. Something like a DUI/DWI that is an expensive annoyance to a CPA, will be a career ender for an LEO. If that sort of scrutiny bothers you, make another career choice.

[Ysabel Kid]

Yep. No one is forcing me to do anything, but if I want a job that requires it, and choose to take it, so be it. I can't blame many entities for trying to (1) decrease their liability and/or (2) increase their successful hires. The former is horribly expensive - but so is the cost in money and time of not hiring people capable of the job...

[Coldfingers]

I guess I don't see it as much different than what I go through as a commercial driver.

I can be called in anytime (off duty or on) for a p!$$ test and breathalizer when my number is up on the DOT computer.

I can only wonder how far up my backside the TSA crawled before my HazMat endorsement was issued

Am somewhat surprised they don't hook me to a polly when they check my logbook.

So much for "rigorous honesty"....

Scotty

[Hillbilly]

I have been polygraphed a couple of times for pre-hire reasons.

Every time I looked into law enforcement poly was a given.

If I remember the process the operator goes over his list of questions before he turns the machine on ... and you get the same questions with the machine on... maybe thats changed in 25 years?

Jeff

[AJMD429]

In what alternativee universe? Employment is never between two equal parties. Life does not work that way.
If I did not have something you wanted, you would not come to work for me. It can never be an equal relationship as long as one is employed by the other.

It IS an 'equal' relationship in the sense that it is voluntary on the part of both parties. One wants money, the other labor. They arrange a trade, and the trade (hire) won't happen unless both parties feel their needs are adequately met at a reasonable cost. One trades dollars away for labor, and the other trades labor, which may involve some loss of freedom, for money. It is only 'unequal' if there are tons of people wanting a few jobs, or tons of laborers needed but only a few available. Then it is STILL equal in the sense it is a voluntary exchange; the acceptable or possible thresholds of tradeoff change, but the fundamental relationship is the same.

Only when the government uses the force of law or regulation or taxes to favor one party, does it become an inherently unfair relationship. You can't get decent health insurance because the government says insurers can sell through employers (an inferior product at a concealed cost) and that is the only way it is not after-tax dollars. So from the start you're at a disadvantage - you take a crappy job to get the 'benefits' but you don't really have the option of taking $8/hr more in pay and buying your own insurance with pre-tax dollars. So the insurance companies buy and pay for politicians who regulate until you're no longer an 'equal.'

[dr walker]

RSY, I think you need to take the test, its no big deal, jus' tell the truth. Truthful answers could disqualify you from the job.
Lies will disqualify you from the job.

[RSY]

...there's lot's of things you'll be told to do by your supervisors that they won't even think of doing themselves.

Trust me, I've been there in spades. See that little red flag I have flying off the port side?

[GANJIRO]

Never took a polygraph to get a job but took one to keep a job once, worked in a lumber yard for a few years in my youth. One day I come into store and the boss calls me into his office, and here's a guy with a polygraph machine. Boss asked if I wouldn't mind taking a test. I like my boss and have nothing to hide so I say "sure why not". Out of a dozen employees I was one of only two who passed. It turned out there was drug dealing in the yard as well as employees selling lumber for cash at cut-rate prices. One of these dishonest employees made the mistake of offering lumber for cash discount to a honest loyal customer who informed the owner. Even the assistant manager who was the owner's daughter's fiancee was the ringleader. He tried to justify his thievery by stating he was under appreciated. Mass termination came but owner did not press any charges. I think I got a pat on the back and a 50 cent an hour raise. I had a newborn son and young wife so I was happy for anything and wasn't expecting anything special for doing what my conscience has always told me to. I've never had a drinking problem nor EVER took any form of illegal narcotics in my life (thanks mom & dad). An honest man does not need to worry so go take that polygraph and start your new career.

[Tycer]

I would.

[kimwcook]

RSY, I can fly that flag too.

Semper Fi brother.

[FWiedner]

An honest man does not need to worry so go take that polygraph and start your new career.

If you've done nothing wrong you don't have anything to worry about, right?



Begging for work from someone who assumes I'm a liar walking in the door would make me feel... dirty.

Like letting someone spit on me for money.

[Old Time Hunter]

Morally it is wrong, but then....

Actually I believe AJMD429 has it correct as far as our society goes. We need to have a certain amount of unemployment to keep the playing field tilted to benefit the employer.

[Griff]

I can only wonder how far up my backside the TSA crawled before my HazMat endorsement was issued
Scotty

From my experience... not even inside your jeans. I'm a foriegn born American citizen. Read; Mom is overseas with Dad when I arrived. I've had my American passport since 1951. I've had 4 background checks prior to applying for my HazMat renewal: 2 by SOs I've worked for, 1 w/the NSA in the military and one by the FBI w/2 updates; plus I did background checks for two years.

The letter I received from the TSA denying my application, said in pertinent part: "...your immigration classification does not qualify you for issuannce of a HazMat certification. Your file will be turned over to Immigration for appropriate action, as necessary..."

I called, got the name title & office addr fir the supervisor of the person who signed the above garbage, wrote them a nice letter back, including a copy of my DD214, copy of pages 1 & 2 of my current passport with copies to my State Representative, Congressman & both Texas Senators asking for the same to be reviewed and an apology. Got it and my endorsement.

You didn't ask... but, IMO, the TSA couldn't find your backside if you were in plain sight, upwind passin' gas!

[rjohns94]

had to in the military many times when my TS SCI clearance came up

[Rexster]

I took a polygraph 25 years ago this July, during the application process to become a big-city police officer. I don't know any police-type jobs that don't require a polygraph. It turned out to be not so bad.

[bogus bill]

I was a security guard for lockheed aircraft in calif. I was there from 1965 to 2000, and for the last 7 years or so carried #1 badge and was given it when I retired. I never took the poligraf test. Many did and I suppose all must now. I had to carry very high security clearances on many top secret programs. I pretty much was left alone as I was there so long and highly trusted, but still was checked highly with friends and family 2,000 miles away by cia, and many others.
You dont get a good goverment contracter job now days without jumping through their hoops!

[Blackhawk]

I would take it.

[Rusty]

I had to when I signed up in 1976.