Chronographing The 25 Auto In A 25-35

[Sixgun]

I decided to start a nice fresh thread as old ones tend to get slopped up.

I set up outside ......cloudy...damp...but no rain.

Nath, our buddy from overseas was wondering about how fast a 25 Auto would be out of a rifle. Well, Nath, I can accommodate you on that. I have a mess of antique Marbles adapters that allow you to shoot little cartridges out of big rifles......that's the way they did things back in the day...they had one rifle and a mess of ways to shoot it.

I set up and chronoed the little Vest Model 1908 Colt along with a Winchester Model 1894 SRC I dug out of the back of the safe to test it all. The 25 Auto ammo was all factory except 1 handload.......and yes, my handload prevailed. (No surprise there)

No failures to feed or eject. Had one dud and one hangfire from 100 year old ammo

Here ya go.......

Most velocities are an average of 3 shots....some 5....some two. This was all shot at 7 yards.

Colt 25 Auto .....R-P somewhat fresh ....705 fps........out of rifle........865 fps

Colt 25 Auto.....old pre WW ONE..Cupro nickel bullet....599 fps...out of rifle....736 fps
One dud and one hangfire.

Colt 25 Auto.....Winchester-Western....787 fps......did not test in rifle

Colt 25 Auto......CCI Blazer.....690 fps........did not test in rifle

Colt 25 Auto.....no head stamp foreign ammo......685 fps......did not test in rifle

Colt 25 Auto......Frontier hollow point....1 shot...light bullet.....922 fps....did not test in rifle

Colt 25 Auto......1960's Peters......746 fps...did not test in rifle

Colt 25 Auto.....handload...1.4 gr. Bullseye..50 gr. Lead...828 fps...out of rifle.....939 fps

The goods....Marbles adapter plus a loaded 25-35 with a paper patched 50 grain lead bullet
One shot with 25 grains of Hi-Vel #2 military powder from WW 2.....1889 fps...poor gas seal.



The set up in the back yard



Don't concern yourself with this picture...I started out all serious and organized but that soon
fell apart. Groups were about 2" at 7 yards before I let it all go to hell. I just threw this in for
shyts and giggles.----6

[Nath]

Thanks, I am surprised the rifle gained so little. I was expecting 1000fps #!

I often wonder where Colt were coming from with this round!!

[Sixgun]

Nath,
It did not surprise me much..I took apart a loaded round and found 1.4 grains of powder that looked like Bullseye.....so therefore the powder gets burned up pretty fast in the first few inches.

I'm gonna try to see how much Herco I can jam in a case and shoot it from the rifle...I bet I get 1200 or more.---6

[AJMD429]

I once thought about an encore barrel in 25 ACP - just 'because' - it seemed like it would sort of do to the 22 LR what the 45-70 does versus the 444, or the 45 Colt versus the 44 Mag. Lobbing that larger-diameter, heavy ol' 50-grainer out at near 1,000 fps should make for far better penetration and shock effect (...on a chipmunk or mouse ) than a hot-shot 22 LR 39-grainer at 1,200 fps, right...???

Anyhow, it sure looks like fun.

If I were a machinist, I'd make me lots of different cartridge adapters. I'd like to see an over-under shotgun where the top barrel was set up to use indexed chamber/barrel inserts. Maybe 20 gauge with inserts for 45 Colt, 32-20, and 218 Bee....or if I had to be modern, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, and 22 TCM...

[Nath]

Nath,
It did not surprise me much..I took apart a loaded round and found 1.4 grains of powder that looked like Bullseye.....so therefore the powder gets burned up pretty fast in the first few inches.

I'm gonna try to see how much Herco I can jam in a case and shoot it from the rifle...I bet I get 1200 or more.---6

Herco or green dot.
Crush it in

N.

[GunnyMack]

I have always wanted to make up a 22 Hornet or 218 Bee double rifle for charging groundhogs!
Now that I have that CZ I'm a step closer.

Being such a small case I'm surprised you got 150-200 FPS more out of it!

Six you sure come up with good stuff from your toy box!

[Sixgun]

Doc,
Go for it...on the 25 Auto. The cartridge is amazingly accurate when shot out of a rifle. With the adapter in the 1894 I have no trouble hitting the 140 yard 10" gong. Loading it with a slower powder (I'm just guessing) will give 1200. I'll do that tomorrow.----6

[earlmck]

I looked at this load in QuickLoad -- Like Nath, QL also way overestimated the gains from going to the rifle; it thought you'd gain over 300 fps. QL was real close in velocity with 1.4 grains Bullseye, 50 grain bullet out of a pistol (I guessed 3" bbl) giving it 818 fps, but thought you'd get 1137 fps with a 20" bbl.

QL thinks your best velocity with available powders would be 1.8 grains of Herco to get 40fps more from the rifle than does the 1.4 grains Bullseye (both being up at the top end of recommended pressure level).

[1894c]

SIX -- very cooool thread, you always amaze me... so are we talking about a .25ACP sniper rifle? ... :)

[Sixgun]

Ok Earl...I'm gonna try that today. The problem with such small loads is that even a variation of .2 grains will result in drastic changes in velocity. Never being one of patience, I dump my charges.

And 1894c........when shooting the 25 acp from the 25-35 you hear nothing but a little ppphhhhttttt.

And yes, it's accurate ....like I said earlier....it hits the 140 yard gong which measures 10" sq. ......as long as I do my part and it does take several shots to get "on".

Just looked outside.....ANOTHER miserable damp rainy day.---6

[Sixgun]

Just got in.......

Load....2.1 grains Herco weighed exactly. Bullet was the 50 gr. swaged

Did not test for accuracy...just blasted over the screens

Shot these out of the 25-35 rifle


First shot...1259
Sec. shot...1320
Third shot..1192

Average......1257

Big extreme spread for carefully weighed powder. My guess is the .251 bullet traveling down a .256 groove diameter

Definitely a max load....primers were messed up more than standard velocity loads, most likely due to
The adapter.

I'd like to see what this load could do in a properly sized barrel. My guess is the fastest you could push the 50 grain LEAD bullet is 1200 while the jacketed might go 1050.----6

[Blaine]

Nath,
It did not surprise me much..I took apart a loaded round and found 1.4 grains of powder that looked like Bullseye.....so therefore the powder gets burned up pretty fast in the first few inches.

I'm gonna try to see how much Herco I can jam in a case and shoot it from the rifle...I bet I get 1200 or more.---6

Hold my beer and watch THIS!

[Sixgun]

Nath,
It did not surprise me much..I took apart a loaded round and found 1.4 grains of powder that looked like Bullseye.....so therefore the powder gets burned up pretty fast in the first few inches.

I'm gonna try to see how much Herco I can jam in a case and shoot it from the rifle...I bet I get 1200 or more.---6

Hold my beer and watch THIS!

Blaine,
It worked! Read the post above yours. Of course I did not shoot these out of the little Colt but used a solid 1894. I figured the worse that could happen would be a blown head. The 25 Auto case is supported very well in the chamber by the long neck on a 25-35. Also, by using a half grain more of Herco, rather than Bullseye, I knew it would be safe, due to the burn rate especially a .251 bullet going down a .256 groove diameter barrel. Now.....2 grains of Bullseye definitely would have been one of those "Hold my beer and watch this". -----6

[Rusty]

Very interesting Jack. That .25-35 looks like a sweet round.

[Nath]

So it can be done, computer Nath said so too!

It's tooo dodgy though! I remember how touchy hornet gets on blue dot above 8grns! This will be way worse!!

Good fun mind.

N.

[3leggedturtle]

Nice, I like real hands on reports like this

[Catshooter]

Good and interesting stuff Six.

But I think you should use a compressed load of 2400. Now that would be . . . uh, cool.


Cat

[3leggedturtle]

Six, have you ever shot cordite loaded ammo, is it really a different smell? Nath and GK, how bout you?

[Sixgun]

Good and interesting stuff Six.
But I think you should use a compressed load of 2400. Now that would be . . . uh, cool. :
Cat

Cat,
WHY do you have to say such things? My attention span and impulsiveness is about the same as a gnat. Your on! Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.....compressed load of 2400.....

Wait.....the Herco was slightly compressed....oh what the hell....life is short...you gotta play hard!

Tomorrow is another day....I'm beat at the moment...just did my 25 minutes on the tread mill at 3 mph and a number 5 incline.

[Nath]

Good and interesting stuff Six.
But I think you should use a compressed load of 2400. Now that would be . . . uh, cool. :
Cat

Cat,
WHY do you have to say such things? My attention span and impulsiveness is about the same as a gnat. Your on! Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.....compressed load of 2400.....

Wait.....the Herco was slightly compressed....oh what the hell....life is short...you gotta play hard!

Tomorrow is another day....I'm beat at the moment...just did my 25 minutes on the tread mill at 3 mph and a number 5 incline.

That will kill you quicker than .25ACP

[GunnyMack]

3 legg-
I haven't shot cordite ammo but have seen the strings. We pulled some bullets from cordite rounds in school and burned the stuff for fun. It's actually very slow burning stuff. Although I don't remember much of a smell, we burned it in the shop.
Seems the grunts that wanted out of duty for the day would pull a bullet, put a stick on their tongue and then go see the doc. The nitro would get heart rate UP!

[Malamute]

If I were a machinist, I'd make me lots of different cartridge adapters. I'd like to see an over-under shotgun where the top barrel was set up to use indexed chamber/barrel inserts. Maybe 20 gauge with inserts for 45 Colt, 32-20, and 218 Bee....or if I had to be modern, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, and 22 TCM...

Ace in Anchorage makes all sorts of adapters, and will make about anything practical on order. I asked him about a 9mm in 35 Whelen, he said he had and would again for the custom price. The regular production chamber adapters aren't priced bad. He also makes shotgun caliber adapters, with short and longer adapters.

http://www.mcace.com/

[earlmck]

The QuickLoad estimate is getting closer now you are getting some psi. QL thinks that 2.1 grains of Herco should get you 1350 fps and 22K psi. It doesn't think you can stuff enough 2400 (about 3 grains) in there to equal the Herco. With Power Pistol though, you could maybe hurt yourself!

Funs stuff, this.

[Sixgun]

The QuickLoad estimate is getting closer now you are getting some psi. QL thinks that 2.1 grains of Herco should get you 1350 fps and 22K psi. It doesn't think you can stuff enough 2400 (about 3 grains) in there to equal the Herco. With Power Pistol though, you could maybe hurt yourself!

Funs stuff, this.

Earl 'da Man,
Thanks for the research. That quickload thingy is pretty much "on" . My load was 100 fps lower than quickload but I'm sure it would have been right on had the bullet diameter matched the groove diameter.

I think I'm pushing my luck on this 25 Auto thing. The 1.4 Bullseye load was much more consistent and did not beat up the case like the Herco load did.

Next up.........The mighty 32 S & W short in the 30-40 Krag. I also have adapters for the 32 spl, 06, and I think...the 30-30.------6

[Catshooter]

Oooo. Power Pistol. Or Long Shot! Long Shot! Yea, Long Sh . . . that .25-35 got a strong action, doesn't it?


Cat

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Well, I see that "retirement" seems to suit you. All that extra time and all that stuff in the gun closet mixed together ... man, what a blast you're going to have.

[hayabusa]

Maybe brew up a 25 ACP extra long! A new wildcat from 6.

hayabusa

[Rusty]

If I were a machinist, I'd make me lots of different cartridge adapters. I'd like to see an over-under shotgun where the top barrel was set up to use indexed chamber/barrel inserts. Maybe 20 gauge with inserts for 45 Colt, 32-20, and 218 Bee....or if I had to be modern, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, and 22 TCM...

Ace in Anchorage makes all sorts of adapters, and will make about anything practical on order. I asked him about a 9mm in 35 Whelen, he said he had and would again for the custom price. The regular production chamber adapters aren't priced bad. He also makes shotgun caliber adapters, with short and longer adapters.

http://www.mcace.com/

I have a couple of adapters from Mcace.com mine are both .22 LR into a .223. They aren't all that accurate but they do work as advertised. The quality of the worksmanship is second to none.