Model 94 question

[geobru]

I dropped in to the local candy shop today and the proprietor asked me to look at a gun that a guy had. It was a 1938 Winchester carbine. Metal was really nice for its age, but the wood was sanded. The thing that got me was the stock. It had a square stock like a SRC. Was that standard for that time? I have never seen a 94 of that vintage before.

I thought it might be an eastern carbine, but the front barrel band was behind the front sight ramp. He has owned the gun for over 40 years and it didn't look like the screws have aver been turned. The guy claimed that he had been offered a big chunk of money for it.

Any clue as to why it would be worth a bunch more than any other carbine?

[Sixgun]

Hey Geo Bro! What be happen'?

I would laugh or be very skeptical at that rifle.

Edit....on thinking, the only difference between that rifle and a one that is "correct" is the buttstock. It's a $4-500 rifle...tops.


Measure the barrel. It was common back in the day for muzzles to get rings or damage in some way. Guys would cut an inch off the barrel and move the barrel band behind the sight. This is on SRC's. I've never seen a barrel band behind the sight that was put there by the factory on a real SRC. The later carbines did have the band behind the sight

The front sight on that gun should have a ramp sight, not the post that is seen on SRC's. So....if the barrel was cut depending on how much, the ramp might have been replaced by a dovetail front sight.

The stock......
Does the buttstock match the forend as to grain, color, finish? If it does, the entire stock was most likely replaced. Standard square back carbine stocks were obsolete by then. The original buttstock was most likely smashed against a tree and replaced by the older style which were still plentiful at the time. My guess, without seeing the rifle, that the buttstock only was replaced.

Why is the blue nice and the stock sanded? Mmmmmmm.......


During the mid to late thirties Winchester was making around 20-30000 1894's a year and the standard stock was the modified shotgun style with the metal plate that we all have seen. (Going from memory here so don't call me on the 20-30K )

That rifle you looked at should be exactly like any other '94 from the early post war period until 1952 with the exception of the tang being D & T for a tang sight. The bluing was a bit better on the early pre war carbines though.

Well, gotta go....I'm sitting on the throne and dropping off Hillary at the pool at the moment. Gotta get me some toilet....errr.......Hillary paper.

Bro.......There's an old saying that an old timer tought me back in the early seventies...."When in doubt----do without.--------6

[Pete44ru]

It was a 1938 Winchester carbine. Metal was really nice for its age, but the wood was sanded.

It had a square stock like a SRC. Was that standard for that time?

The square comb buttstocks with the roll-over flat buttplate was standard on SRC's until about SN 1,000,000 (+/-), which translates to 1926-27.

(1938 Model 94 SN's ran from SN110680 to SN110915.)


.

[DPris]

Back in the Good Old Days, you could order all sorts of non-standard configurations from Winchester, and people often did.
Denis

[Griff]

While Denis has a good point, I gotta agree with Sixgun. A big tell would be how the front sight is attached. I'm away from my books, and don't recall whether that front sight should be sweated on, or dovetailed.

[Malamute]

I don't think any of the earlier (pre-war in this case) carbines were dovetailed in the usually understood sense. The early type (SRC) had a small square block (with blade pinned in) sweated to the barrel or machined from the same metal as the barrel. A bit before '38 they started using ramps like all the later guns. Some were machined from the same metal as the barrel and some were sweated on. There was apparently some lag between when ramps were first being used and when they became all that was available.

[geobru]

Thanks for the replies.
Six, that stock is what got me scratching my head. The stock and forestock matched grain. Other than the SRC butt stock, it looked just like any other post war carbine up to 1952. Ramp front sight, standard sights, barrel band behind the ramp, etc. Then a SRC STOCK!!!! DING DING DING!!!! It just didn't fit what I thought I knew about Winchesters.

The shop owner sent him on to Cabela's to have a guy that is knowledgeable about old Winnies in the gun library look at it .

The guy also brought in a flat band and put it up for sale on consignment. It was helpful to compare the two carbines. They were identical other than the flat band on the one and that SRC stock on the other. Both guns had excellent metal, and probably never have been torn down other than the wood coming off the one for the refinish.

Personally I liked the flat band a LOT better than the other one!

[Malamute]

If they are priced as shooters, Id lean towards the one with the early type stock, just because I like them. Once they went to the plain shotgun type butt and ramped front sight, they look about the same on through towards the end of production (2000s).

If it did in fact come factory with the early type butt, it would be a special order and worth more. In the transitional years from early type carbine to the plain vanilla looking shotgun butt/ramp front sight era, its hard to make firm rules on what was used on any given year.

[Sixgun]

Geo Bro,
It was a simple case of switched stocks....nothing more. I see it all the time.

Someone back in the day either destroyed the original stock or saw a chance to put on an older one...just like daddy had.....on his pride and joy '94. Special order stuff was mostly gone before WW1 and after producing close to 400,000 94 carbines between the end of SRC production......1927 or so.....until 1938......it's a fat chance that original SRC buttstocks survived in the factory after production ceased on them 10 years prior.

I have an instance that's the other way around......an 1894 SRC in 25-35 with a "rifle" or crescent buttstock, made in '15. The condition of the wood and the metal matches perfectly along with exacting wood to metal fit which leaves little doubt as to its originality.----6

[jdad]

Didn't Winchester serial number the stocks the way Marlin did? That would end this speculation.

[Sixgun]

Didn't Winchester serial number the stocks the way Marlin did? That would end this speculation.

I've never seen any serialized stocks and I've pulled hundreds. Not sure about 1866's as I never fooled with them to any extant.