Colt Made a Levergun

[JohndeFresno]

Did you know this? I just stumbled onto it myself.

"The Colt-Burgess rifle is similar in design to Winchester's lever-action rifles, such as the Winchester Model 1873. It was produced in two versions chambered for the .44-40 Winchester cartridge: a rifle version with a 25 1⁄2 in (650 mm) barrel, and a carbine with a 20 in (510 mm) barrel."

According to this source, it is believed that a "Gentlemen's Agreement" was made between Winchester and Colt, after Winchester decided to start making revolvers in response - Winchester wouldn't compete with revolvers, and Colt would no longer compete with their excellent quality leverguns. So Colt backed out after a limited 16 month production.

Here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt-Burgess_rifle
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... hortlived/

[Blaine]

I wonder how much a fella would have to pony up for one of those?

[JohndeFresno]

I wonder how much a fella would have to pony up for one of those?

$1476.00 for an excellent (apparently) Uberti copy in .45 Colt, per the American Rifleman article. A .44-40 is reportedly in the works. If I were a man of means, I would have already ordered one.

One or both of the articles describes the Colt as having a stronger breech, with a sliding cartridge gate rather that a swinging one and some other interesting attributes - and a good trigger pull on the Uberti.

[jdad]

How do you think the Marlin 1881 came about?

[JohndeFresno]

How do you think the Marlin 1881 came about?

Clever boogers, those Marlin folks.
I love my Marlin 336 Centennial (.30-30) and 1895G (.45-70), although they don't get to come out and play much these days.
There seems to be a lot of different provisos when it comes to shooting .45 Colts in the current batch of leverguns, but the American Rifleman article gave high marks to the Eye-Tallyon model.

There is mention that you have to watch your crimp with handloads, as with other rifles that shoot the .45 Colt:
"...on the other hand, the Burgess isn’t quite as slick out of the box as the ’73. Part of this, I am sure, is its .45 Colt chambering. It takes just a smidgen of case taper, like the .44-40 WCF, to ease the operation of chambering and extraction—probably why there are no original lever guns chambered in .45 Colt."

[Griff]

...probably why there are no original lever guns chambered in .45 Colt."

An actual rim was originally the problem. The original copper cartridges were way too soft... and it wasn't until "modern" times that the 45 Colt had an extractor groove.

The 45 Colt chambers in rifles are overly large (@ max SAAMI spec) to accommodate the change from angled to horizontal so the bullet doesn't jam against the roof of the chamber. As it does with some very wide meplat bullets. Round flat noses work great.

[JohndeFresno]

...Round flat noses work great.

And the Keith bullet, then?

I'd want a levergun that fires my more commonly used (and practical) handgun rounds. If not, then the .44 Mag would likely be a better choice for true shared handgun and rifle hunting and defense load - right?

[Griff]

...Round flat noses work great.

And the Keith bullet, then?

I'd want a levergun that fires my more commonly used (and practical) handgun rounds. If not, then the .44 Mag would likely be a better choice for true shared handgun and rifle hunting and defense load - right?

the Keith seems to work for others... but I only have one mdl 92, which uses an angled carrier like the mdl 94 or the Marlins... The 1873 has a straight lift carrier, (like an elevator), and the front driving band seems to catch on the mouth of the chamber. You can accommodate the Keiths pretty simply, but radiusing the chamber mouth. Nate could probably give you some tips for that.

I'm not sure what the Colt-Burgess has.

[jeepnik]

I've heard of the rifle in question. But I don't think I've ever seen one. I wonder how many were made, and why it didn't succeed.

[J Miller]

...Round flat noses work great.

And the Keith bullet, then?

I'd want a levergun that fires my more commonly used (and practical) handgun rounds. If not, then the .44 Mag would likely be a better choice for true shared handgun and rifle hunting and defense load - right?

I shoot the 45 Colt loaded with Keith SWC bullets all the time. I use a normal roll crimp and they function beautifully.
I do this from both my revolvers and lever guns.
Currently I have a Win 94AE and a Marlin 1894. Neither has been altered for the SWC bullets.
The one Rossi I had would not function with any type of bullet so when it went in for repair I sent Keith bullet dummy rounds with it to make sure it would work with them. After repairs it did.

Joe

[hfcable]

I wonder how much a fella would have to pony up for one of those?

$1476.00 for an excellent (apparently) Uberti copy in .45 Colt, per the American Rifleman article. A .44-40 is reportedly in the works. If I were a man of means, I would have already ordered one.

One or both of the articles describes the Colt as having a stronger breech, with a sliding cartridge gate rather that a swinging one and some other interesting attributes - and a good trigger pull on the Uberti.

the uberti burgess is a cosmetic copy, but its quite different on the inside.

the colt-burgess's I have seen commonly had problems of reliability and eventually all of them develop cracked forearms etc they are not too rare and I think were only made in pistol calibers, maybe just 44/40

not long ago I passed on one for about 800$

the 1878 burgess was the first successful commercially produced 45/70 lever gun and burgess took the design with him to marlin, and with needed improvements that became the 1881 marlin. the sliding cartridge gate is a feature I do like too.
I have one of each of those, and they are among my favorite lever actions.

[vancelw]

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/produc ... rgess.html

I can't remember if I've handled one of these reproductions or not. I have seen an original in a gun store in Austin. Owner said he found it propped, muzzle down, against a rock in the Arizona desert. Only one I've ever seen that wasn't in a museum.

[hfcable]

here is a colt burgess for sale from Leroy Merz...kinda pricey:

http://merzantiques.com/item/colt-lever ... ess-rifle1


maybe I should have picked on of these up

[hfcable]

I've heard of the rifle in question. But I don't think I've ever seen one. I wonder how many were made, and why it didn't succeed.

I have read that 6400 or so were made starting in 1883. I have been told by folks who have had several , and by the folks at Leroy Merz that they almost all had feeding problems.

[hfcable]

here is some more info on the colt burgess

http://rieckesbaysidegallery.com/coltBu ... nnards.cfm

[hfcable]

and one at auction on gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/578458327

[JohndeFresno]

Thanks, gents, for all the helpful information and update, as usual.

[jdad]

here is a colt burgess for sale from Leroy Merz...kinda pricey:

http://merzantiques.com/item/colt-lever ... ess-rifle1


maybe I should have picked on of these up

Everything is kinda pricey at Leroy Merz.

[hfcable]

here is a colt burgess for sale from Leroy Merz...kinda pricey:

http://merzantiques.com/item/colt-lever ... ess-rifle1


maybe I should have picked on of these up

Everything is kinda pricey at Leroy Merz.

so true !!

[Grizz]

...Round flat noses work great.

And the Keith bullet, then?

I'd want a levergun that fires my more commonly used (and practical) handgun rounds. If not, then the .44 Mag would likely be a better choice for true shared handgun and rifle hunting and defense load - right?

that depends . . .

I hunted with handgun loads that I could not shoot in the Marlin 1894 because of the difference in twist rates. My son hunted with the 94 with white box 240gr jfp, and they are a hammer on deer. I hunted with 320gr pb hc from the revolver, and it is a hammer on deer. I didn't want to carry 240s in the revolver because I be skeerd of the #### bears.

which facts moved me up to 45/70 for carbine duty. and 405gr in the revolver.

howsomever, if you want to stick to the 240 weight (commonly used and practical) you will have a great combo.

[Sixgun]

I could have had one that was a solid 90% gun for $3500 but......that was in the early eighties, the same time I could have had a 100% original military Henry with sling and a very nice cartouche for $4500......in those days I was barely able to buy a case of beer every week.----6

[Pete44ru]

Did you know this? I just stumbled onto it myself.

The Colt Burgess & it's Uberti clone has been discussed here a couple of times in the past, the last being about 2 years ago:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... un#p704755


.

[Sixgun]

Hey Pete.....I looked at what I said on that long forgotten post and it looks like my memory ain't too bad for a semi old guy. Same thing I wrote above. ----6

[Pete44ru]

Hey Pete.....I looked at what I said on that long forgotten post and it looks like my memory ain't too bad for a semi old guy. Same thing I wrote above. ----6

It looks like we're legends in our own minds..............


.

[6pt-sika]

here is a colt burgess for sale from Leroy Merz...kinda pricey:

http://merzantiques.com/item/colt-lever ... ess-rifle1


maybe I should have picked on of these up

Everything is kinda pricey at Leroy Merz.

I dunno I bought a circa 1897 Marlin 1895 in 38-56 from him a few years back and he gave me a very fair price or so I thought . I know when I sold it a couple years later I made a modest profit .

[6pt-sika]

Hey Pete.....I looked at what I said on that long forgotten post and it looks like my memory ain't too bad for a semi old guy. Same thing I wrote above. ----6

Comes from all that lasagna ravioli and spaghetti

[JohndeFresno]

The Colt Burgess & it's Uberti clone has been discussed here a couple of times in the past, the last being about 2 years ago:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... un#p704755

Alas, my extended "senior moments" have arrived.

[Lefty Dude]

IIRC, Taylors sells the Uberti Colt Burgess.