Any of you guys use Thermal Imaging scopes...?

[AJMD429]

...i.e. for hog hunting (or whatever).

I was intrigued by this 'entry-level' unit...

https://www.atncorp.com/thermal-scope-t ... 4-1-25x-5x

[Griff]

It appears as though that's a resounding, "NO"! It has come a LONG way from our "green" things of the VN era!

[MrMurphy]

I have had access to them in the past, currently, no.


I generally avoid ATN like the plague, their older NV units were using Chinese and Russian tubes with sometimes serious QC issues (like....missing almost ALL the internal filters keeping your eyes from being fried). Their newer thermal units might be ok, but I wouldn't want to be the beta tester.


TNVC, as a corporation, uses current-gen ITT tubes and is as solid as they come on quality control. If they build it, it is tough enough for mil/police service.

[Rusty]

I thought about it but I went with a Trijicon Acupower instead. I have about 9 hogs I'm baiting up right now. I'll try to put it into use about Wed. if everything works out.

Gonna put the Trijicon on a M77 .308. The light gathering qualities of a good scope are often overlooked.

[sore shoulder]

I have access to the best thermal money can buy. I cannot afford anything I would consider useable. ATN is total junk, steer clear. Good thermal cost as much as a car and there's a reason. Thermal is also large and heavy, even the compact units, which I personally wouldn't touch because I don't think you can cut corners on good thermal. If you don't have any NV, invest in that first, and get the US mil stuff. Otherwise it's going to cost in the neighborhood of 5K or more for anything reliable. I would read a lot of reviews on multiple sites before spending money on anything that isn't us mil.

[AJMD429]

I have a night vision (infrared) scope that is helpful, other than it is bulky. Hard sometimes to find critters if behind bushes or grass though.

A regular scope, even with good glass and a large objective, is useless in total darkness, but with a good light I can see better at 150 yards than with a 'night vision' one. Of course that means I'm not being very sneaky, so I can nail a possum or feral cat or raccoon, but coyotes are too smart, and if there were ever a situation with a two-legged varmint I would have to settle for a infrared/night scope. (However even those can be seen by some of the two-legs if they have the right stuff, although the average gangbanger or post-apocalyptic looter probably wouldn't be so equipped.)

The main thought I had was something for coyotes, and the few times I see them with regular night vision they are hard to make out from the tall grass they are in. Thermal would help there I think.

[FWiedner]

I bought an Armasight Predator earlier this year.

I've put down about a half-dozen hogs using it.

I also have a couple of low-end night-vision scopes that I've been using for several years.

At this point I'm thinking that I prefer the thermal.

Haven't tried it in cold weather yet.

[sore shoulder]

I have a night vision (infrared) scope that is helpful, other than it is bulky. Hard sometimes to find critters if behind bushes or grass though.

A regular scope, even with good glass and a large objective, is useless in total darkness, but with a good light I can see better at 150 yards than with a 'night vision' one. Of course that means I'm not being very sneaky, so I can nail a possum or feral cat or raccoon, but coyotes are too smart, and if there were ever a situation with a two-legged varmint I would have to settle for a infrared/night scope. (However even those can be seen by some of the two-legs if they have the right stuff, although the average gangbanger or post-apocalyptic looter probably wouldn't be so equipped.)

The main thought I had was something for coyotes, and the few times I see them with regular night vision they are hard to make out from the tall grass they are in. Thermal would help there I think.

There is a huge difference between the different gens. A gen 3 PVS14 light gathering ability is incredible. You do not need IR illum even in pitch black, although it helps see detail, and the PVS14 is equipped with it if needed in a very small, light, and versatile package than can be used as a monocular or mounted on a rifle behind your optics (an IR laser mounted on weapon allows use as a monocular without mounting to weapon). The IR illum is what others can see with their NV. If there is any ambient light (outside on moonless cloudy night there is more than enough) you will be able to see hundreds of yards. On a clear might it will be hundreds of yards with detail. On even a partial moon it will be like there's lights on, and full moon will be like high noon. I would invest in high quality IR before thermal, it's half the price and much more practical. And if you're really concerned about detail, a good IR flashlite will take care of it.

If you're just rich, then by all means, spend 5-10K on thermal and write it up here so we can live vicariously through you.

[MrMurphy]

If you think the -14 is good, an ANVIS 9 is "green daylight" and far superior imaging. That's why they issue them to pilots and Delta Force.

I borrowed a pair, and it didn't come from a pilot.... sadly, I had to give it back a few hours later.

There are extremely small thermal imagers out now, which are .mil quality. Seven years ago I used an early prototype the size of a "point and shoot" camera mounted on a rifle. It gave on-rifle thermal imaging with the ability to use an Aimpoint and weighed less than 1 lb.

I guarantee you the current production versions are even better. And no, you don't need to know who had it when I played with it, we knew better than to ask. They'd already combat tested it and needed a better mounting system, which we attempted to supply (never heard back on that).

[JB]

Zulu time

[Paladin]

If you think the -14 is good, an ANVIS 9 is "green daylight" and far superior imaging. That's why they issue them to pilots and Delta Force.

I borrowed a pair, and it didn't come from a pilot.... sadly, I had to give it back a few hours later.

There are extremely small thermal imagers out now, which are .mil quality. Seven years ago I used an early prototype the size of a "point and shoot" camera mounted on a rifle. It gave on-rifle thermal imaging with the ability to use an Aimpoint and weighed less than 1 lb.

I guarantee you the current production versions are even better. And no, you don't need to know who had it when I played with it, we knew better than to ask. They'd already combat tested it and needed a better mounting system, which we attempted to supply (never heard back on that).

As stated the new thermals are extremely good and the newest set of night-vision had thermal superimposed on the green screen in white but I had to return them when I was finished. Don't buy any thermal you have not used or tested yourself. Some of the cheaper ones work well enough for targeting but not other things. I still use a set of PVS-7Bs and an I.R. laser as it was all I could afford and works well on targeting and other things. PVS 14s are good for many things try to get GEN III or better if you decide to go that route.

[piller]

My experience with Thermal (IR) is what we used on the TOW 2 missile system on the HMMWV. In the winter, the cold objects were black, but you could see the difference between grass and ground. I once watched a mouse (I think) at about 2000 meters going about its foraging. It was a small bright reddish white dot moving around about where we had targeted for tank destruction. That thermal is a large unit and it is mounted to a big yoke that holds the launch tube and the missile. No way is anyone going to hold that big thing steady enough to use it unless it is mounted on something stable. We were still using the A/N PVS 2 system at the time for the foot soldiers. I got to look through one of them, and it was not very clear in comparison. The A/N PVS 2 is starlight.

[MrMurphy]

That's 3 generations behind current.


A PVS-14 is very clear, you can easily (on open terrain) see a man moving at 300m. A PVS-15 is basically twin 14s. The ANVIS series is far clearer but also 2-3x the price, which is why primarily they're for pilots, special ops guys get them and the newer four-lens systems.

Fusion systems combine thermal and NV.

Current thermal in a handheld can tell if you're wearing a weapon under your clothing and is facial recognition quality from 100m or better.

Vehicle mounted systems, even better than that. I had a 30X zoom thermal imager mounted on a Humvee deployed and we could watch people from half a mile and tell them apart.

[sore shoulder]

My experience with Thermal (IR) is what we used on the TOW 2 missile system on the HMMWV. In the winter, the cold objects were black, but you could see the difference between grass and ground. I once watched a mouse (I think) at about 2000 meters going about its foraging. It was a small bright reddish white dot moving around about where we had targeted for tank destruction. That thermal is a large unit and it is mounted to a big yoke that holds the launch tube and the missile. No way is anyone going to hold that big thing steady enough to use it unless it is mounted on something stable. We were still using the A/N PVS 2 system at the time for the foot soldiers. I got to look through one of them, and it was not very clear in comparison. The A/N PVS 2 is starlight.

ITAS is beyond amazing

[sore shoulder]

That's 3 generations behind current.


A PVS-14 is very clear, you can easily (on open terrain) see a man moving at 300m. A PVS-15 is basically twin 14s. The ANVIS series is far clearer but also 2-3x the price, which is why primarily they're for pilots, special ops guys get them and the newer four-lens systems.

Fusion systems combine thermal and NV.

Current thermal in a handheld can tell if you're wearing a weapon under your clothing and is facial recognition quality from 100m or better.

Vehicle mounted systems, even better than that. I had a 30X zoom thermal imager mounted on a Humvee deployed and we could watch people from half a mile and tell them apart.

The problems with thermal is heating and cooling. PVS 14 is by far the best bang for the buck IMO.

[sore shoulder]

If you think the -14 is good, an ANVIS 9 is "green daylight" and far superior imaging. That's why they issue them to pilots and Delta Force.

I borrowed a pair, and it didn't come from a pilot.... sadly, I had to give it back a few hours later.

There are extremely small thermal imagers out now, which are .mil quality. Seven years ago I used an early prototype the size of a "point and shoot" camera mounted on a rifle. It gave on-rifle thermal imaging with the ability to use an Aimpoint and weighed less than 1 lb.

I guarantee you the current production versions are even better. And no, you don't need to know who had it when I played with it, we knew better than to ask. They'd already combat tested it and needed a better mounting system, which we attempted to supply (never heard back on that).

We are a gen behind the ultra cool guy stuff, I can live with the hand me down cool guy stuff we get.

[MrMurphy]

I agree, the 14 does a very good job. I wore one for 3 years every day just about.

I've had access to the even better stuff, and while the 14 is better than what 90% of the rest of the world has, it has been surpassed in US use. You'll still be seeing them in service for at least another decade or so, but there's better now for the cool guys.


Thermal definitely has it's good points especially in static positions observing.