Range DAY; Report with pics
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Range DAY; Report with pics
AT 1030 hours this day I am departing to the outdoors gun range, 43 miles away. First time I've been to this range to shoot. I'm meeting up with jd45 and we intend to get a bunch of guns FILTHY!!! He's bringing his chronograph and we'll see what kind of velocities we get.
I've got the comparison boxes of old and new 2400 in the Pathfinder to test. That might be interesting.
ANd we're bringing our cameras. Hopefully if the batteries don't go dead and all the digits line up there will be pics.
So until later, or maybe tomorrow depending on how I feel:
Boogity, boogity, boogity, LET'S GO SHOOTING BOYS!!!!!!!
REPORT, down below in separate post.
J e
I've got the comparison boxes of old and new 2400 in the Pathfinder to test. That might be interesting.
ANd we're bringing our cameras. Hopefully if the batteries don't go dead and all the digits line up there will be pics.
So until later, or maybe tomorrow depending on how I feel:
Boogity, boogity, boogity, LET'S GO SHOOTING BOYS!!!!!!!
REPORT, down below in separate post.
J e
Last edited by J Miller on Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4923
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:08 am
- Location: Arizona headed for New Mexico
- 2ndovc
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9366
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie
Joe you inspired me this morning.
Got home and ran to the range. Foutunately for me it's only seven minuets away!
Did some 32-20 load testing and had the whole place to myself.
Can't wait to hear hou you did today.
Got home and ran to the range. Foutunately for me it's only seven minuets away!
Did some 32-20 load testing and had the whole place to myself.
Can't wait to hear hou you did today.
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27922
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Range Trip Report 4-16-08
I left the house about 10:30 and figured I’d be at the range within an hour. I set the cruise control on 60 and just tooled along listening to a Kylie Minogue tape. The winds were horrible, well over 20 mph and were pushing me along. That was great for gas mileage, but almost got me wrecked too.
The roads are typical IL farm roads. Crooked as anything with lots of dips for washes ….. ‘er creeks, and then there are the 90° turns that come out of nowhere. That is what almost got me. Tooling along at 60 with the cruise set and all of a sudden here’s a turn. It’s not a 60mph turn, or even a 55mph turn ( the posted limit) but it could be been done, except for the wind. As I made the left turn I realized I was going to fast and hit the breaks just as my heavy tail wind became a broadside wind. It got interesting for a few moments. But I kept it on the road ……….. barely.
I got to the range a bit after 11:30 and was met by the owner. He had some orders to put in, then he came out and we got the paperwork finished so I could shoot.
The range is the Law Outdoor Range near Chandlerville, IL. Here’s their web site:
http://lawguns.net/ . There are pictures of the range in there to look at; I didn’t get many of my own.
I talked with the owner for quite a while, while I looked around his shop. He had a couple Marlin lever guns on the wall. One was a 336 the other an 1894. I didn’t get the prices or calibers. They looked a bit out of place with all the military rifles around them. This shop specializes in EBRs and EBPs. They have parts and pieces to make most any variation of AR and have machine guns to rent.
The wind at the range was atrocious. Some of the gusts were so bad they would almost knock you over. But I came to shoot, and a little wind wasn’t going to stop me. So I set up to shoot at the 25 yd line.
My bench at the 25 yd line
It was difficult to get set up, the wind wanted to rip everything out of your hands. It kept slapping the lid on my pistol case open and shut.
I had to reassemble the target frame, it had come undone. I used one of the bowling pins lying around as a hammer, worked pretty well too.
Looking behind us at the 100 yard benches
The way the range is set up, the targets remain stationary and the shooters move. I wish it was the other way; I sure would have liked to be under that covered area with a much more stable platform to shoot from.
I hadn’t shot too much when I looked around and saw JD’s Subaru parked beside my Pathfinder.
Our steeds
Once JD got the paperwork finished he came out and we said hello. Shook hands and got started getting him set up. We had plans to set up his chronograph and clock a bunch of our loads. But because of the wind we never got to it.
JD, had brought much more stuff than I had. As he made many trips to carry it to the firing line I brought the rest of my stuff out too.
Had we possessed one spark of intelligence we would have turned out vehicles around and backed up close to the rails, unloaded our stuff there, then walked around and carried the stuff from the rails to the firing line. But no, we took the long way around many trips worth.
As JD was setting up he got hit by so many wind gusts his stuff just kept blowing away. We couldn’t leave anything lying that could be moved. Safety glasses, targets, boxes, foam padding from our gun cases, all of that stuff got blown away at least once. The wind even blew a couple of my rifle cases away.
JD45 setting up
Some of JD45s toys
After getting set up we did a little shooting. JD had brought several lever guns witch I had to refrain from drooling on. I got to shoot his Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. Nice rifle. It was an older one; I forget when he said it was made.
I also got to shoot the 92 copy he brought and that gorgeous 1873 copy, both chambered for the .45 Colt. I had a bit of difficulty with the tang sight. I had to try to hold the rifle steady in the wind, not easy, while gripping the stock around the sight and holding the lever up to release the trigger block. He has a globe type front sight on it and a tiny aperture on the tang sight. I found it real easy to get a sight picture, but impossible to hold it with the wind blowing the long barrel around. I’d like to spend some time shooting that rifle from the bench on a calm day.
We were discussing a few handguns he’d brought when a big gust of wind hit us and took his rifle case with his Marlin on top of it right off the bench. The poor rifle hit the ground hard. His newly refinished stock got banged up, and the muzzle took a header into the ground. After getting things picked up we checked it out and were afraid the muzzle might be damaged. There was a new dent right to the side of the rifling. But when he shot it again the bullets were centered right where he aimed. So it looks like we lucked out.
I brought my Win 94AE Trapper .45 Colt, Win 94 30-30 (my pre 64 ), and my Marlin Cowboy .45.
I shot the Pre 64 first. It sure is a nice feeling rifle. Shot the Marlin .45 a bit too.
JD shot all of them too. I think he liked the little Trapper .45.
The only good group I got was with the Marlin 1894. I made a makeshift chair out of one the cat litter buckets I had my ammo in and using the pistol case as a rest I shot this group:
The sights are still on. This was pleasantly surprising because I replaced the rear sight insert and elevator some time back, and put on a new front sight. So I don’t need to worry about the sights for now. I just need to get some practice and shoot it at longer ranges.
As we were shooting the 30-30 I noticed that the case necks were splitting. At first I wasn’t too concerned. The ammo was loaded 20 years ago in 4x used brass. I figured it was just a case of brass fatigue. But, every single case I fired split in the same way, at the same place.
Split Winchester cases
Closer view
Not shown in these pics is that the splits appear to be at the same point in relation to where the firing pin had hit the primer. In other words; the firing pin hits off center so if you line all the cases up with the firing pin dent in the same place, the splits would match up too.
I put the Winchester reloads away and loaded up some fresh Remington factory loads.
Of the six I fired two of them split.
Split R-P cases
Closer view
I also noticed that there are marks on the cleaner R-P cases that look like the shoulder was blown forward and expanded at the neck. I don’t know if I’m imagining things or not, but it just doesn’t look right. Another project I did not need.
So now I’m thinking I have a chamber problem. JD and I gave it a good think and agreed about that. NUTS!!!
So my nice pre-64 might have a problem we asked the gun range owner to look at the split cases and he agreed with us, chamber problems. Double NUTS!!!
By this time we’d been shooting, b.s.’ing and fighting the wind for about three hours and had taken about all of it we could. The wind was coming from the south, right into our faces. It was very hard to shoot that way.
We loaded our stuff up and decided we needed to get together again sometime in the near future, when the wind is CALM.
For my part I enjoyed the trip, I enjoyed JD45’s company, and I really enjoyed the day shooting out doors. Even with the wind curtailing much of our plans.
JD, I look forward to the next time we can get together.
Joe
I left the house about 10:30 and figured I’d be at the range within an hour. I set the cruise control on 60 and just tooled along listening to a Kylie Minogue tape. The winds were horrible, well over 20 mph and were pushing me along. That was great for gas mileage, but almost got me wrecked too.
The roads are typical IL farm roads. Crooked as anything with lots of dips for washes ….. ‘er creeks, and then there are the 90° turns that come out of nowhere. That is what almost got me. Tooling along at 60 with the cruise set and all of a sudden here’s a turn. It’s not a 60mph turn, or even a 55mph turn ( the posted limit) but it could be been done, except for the wind. As I made the left turn I realized I was going to fast and hit the breaks just as my heavy tail wind became a broadside wind. It got interesting for a few moments. But I kept it on the road ……….. barely.
I got to the range a bit after 11:30 and was met by the owner. He had some orders to put in, then he came out and we got the paperwork finished so I could shoot.
The range is the Law Outdoor Range near Chandlerville, IL. Here’s their web site:
http://lawguns.net/ . There are pictures of the range in there to look at; I didn’t get many of my own.
I talked with the owner for quite a while, while I looked around his shop. He had a couple Marlin lever guns on the wall. One was a 336 the other an 1894. I didn’t get the prices or calibers. They looked a bit out of place with all the military rifles around them. This shop specializes in EBRs and EBPs. They have parts and pieces to make most any variation of AR and have machine guns to rent.
The wind at the range was atrocious. Some of the gusts were so bad they would almost knock you over. But I came to shoot, and a little wind wasn’t going to stop me. So I set up to shoot at the 25 yd line.
My bench at the 25 yd line
It was difficult to get set up, the wind wanted to rip everything out of your hands. It kept slapping the lid on my pistol case open and shut.
I had to reassemble the target frame, it had come undone. I used one of the bowling pins lying around as a hammer, worked pretty well too.
Looking behind us at the 100 yard benches
The way the range is set up, the targets remain stationary and the shooters move. I wish it was the other way; I sure would have liked to be under that covered area with a much more stable platform to shoot from.
I hadn’t shot too much when I looked around and saw JD’s Subaru parked beside my Pathfinder.
Our steeds
Once JD got the paperwork finished he came out and we said hello. Shook hands and got started getting him set up. We had plans to set up his chronograph and clock a bunch of our loads. But because of the wind we never got to it.
JD, had brought much more stuff than I had. As he made many trips to carry it to the firing line I brought the rest of my stuff out too.
Had we possessed one spark of intelligence we would have turned out vehicles around and backed up close to the rails, unloaded our stuff there, then walked around and carried the stuff from the rails to the firing line. But no, we took the long way around many trips worth.
As JD was setting up he got hit by so many wind gusts his stuff just kept blowing away. We couldn’t leave anything lying that could be moved. Safety glasses, targets, boxes, foam padding from our gun cases, all of that stuff got blown away at least once. The wind even blew a couple of my rifle cases away.
JD45 setting up
Some of JD45s toys
After getting set up we did a little shooting. JD had brought several lever guns witch I had to refrain from drooling on. I got to shoot his Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. Nice rifle. It was an older one; I forget when he said it was made.
I also got to shoot the 92 copy he brought and that gorgeous 1873 copy, both chambered for the .45 Colt. I had a bit of difficulty with the tang sight. I had to try to hold the rifle steady in the wind, not easy, while gripping the stock around the sight and holding the lever up to release the trigger block. He has a globe type front sight on it and a tiny aperture on the tang sight. I found it real easy to get a sight picture, but impossible to hold it with the wind blowing the long barrel around. I’d like to spend some time shooting that rifle from the bench on a calm day.
We were discussing a few handguns he’d brought when a big gust of wind hit us and took his rifle case with his Marlin on top of it right off the bench. The poor rifle hit the ground hard. His newly refinished stock got banged up, and the muzzle took a header into the ground. After getting things picked up we checked it out and were afraid the muzzle might be damaged. There was a new dent right to the side of the rifling. But when he shot it again the bullets were centered right where he aimed. So it looks like we lucked out.
I brought my Win 94AE Trapper .45 Colt, Win 94 30-30 (my pre 64 ), and my Marlin Cowboy .45.
I shot the Pre 64 first. It sure is a nice feeling rifle. Shot the Marlin .45 a bit too.
JD shot all of them too. I think he liked the little Trapper .45.
The only good group I got was with the Marlin 1894. I made a makeshift chair out of one the cat litter buckets I had my ammo in and using the pistol case as a rest I shot this group:
The sights are still on. This was pleasantly surprising because I replaced the rear sight insert and elevator some time back, and put on a new front sight. So I don’t need to worry about the sights for now. I just need to get some practice and shoot it at longer ranges.
As we were shooting the 30-30 I noticed that the case necks were splitting. At first I wasn’t too concerned. The ammo was loaded 20 years ago in 4x used brass. I figured it was just a case of brass fatigue. But, every single case I fired split in the same way, at the same place.
Split Winchester cases
Closer view
Not shown in these pics is that the splits appear to be at the same point in relation to where the firing pin had hit the primer. In other words; the firing pin hits off center so if you line all the cases up with the firing pin dent in the same place, the splits would match up too.
I put the Winchester reloads away and loaded up some fresh Remington factory loads.
Of the six I fired two of them split.
Split R-P cases
Closer view
I also noticed that there are marks on the cleaner R-P cases that look like the shoulder was blown forward and expanded at the neck. I don’t know if I’m imagining things or not, but it just doesn’t look right. Another project I did not need.
So now I’m thinking I have a chamber problem. JD and I gave it a good think and agreed about that. NUTS!!!
So my nice pre-64 might have a problem we asked the gun range owner to look at the split cases and he agreed with us, chamber problems. Double NUTS!!!
By this time we’d been shooting, b.s.’ing and fighting the wind for about three hours and had taken about all of it we could. The wind was coming from the south, right into our faces. It was very hard to shoot that way.
We loaded our stuff up and decided we needed to get together again sometime in the near future, when the wind is CALM.
For my part I enjoyed the trip, I enjoyed JD45’s company, and I really enjoyed the day shooting out doors. Even with the wind curtailing much of our plans.
JD, I look forward to the next time we can get together.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Enjoyed the report and photos. I was very sorry to hear about JD's Marlin taking a dive. Ouch! Very odd about the neck splits in your 30-30.They should not split simply because the shoulder is off. Brass can be fireformed a good deal more than that. The first thing I'd do is perform a detailed inspection of the chamber neck at that position. Is there a burr there? Even then, I don't see how that would split the neck. The various 30-30's I've shot have never done that, even though they've all had different chambers (requiring full length resizing of brass when switching from on to the other. I'm mystified. Someone with more knowledge than I will have to tell us what the problem is.
I agree with the heinous wind. It was so bad yesterday up here that I forewent my lunch time Groundhog patrol down in the alfalfa field. I saw two today, but those fellows saw my coming. About the only way I'm going to nail them with my iron-sighted Winchester Model 53 25-20 is to lay in wait about 50 yards away until they poke their head out of the hold. That will have to wait until next week, as the next few days I'm up to my eyeballs in work.
I agree with the heinous wind. It was so bad yesterday up here that I forewent my lunch time Groundhog patrol down in the alfalfa field. I saw two today, but those fellows saw my coming. About the only way I'm going to nail them with my iron-sighted Winchester Model 53 25-20 is to lay in wait about 50 yards away until they poke their head out of the hold. That will have to wait until next week, as the next few days I'm up to my eyeballs in work.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- Borregos
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4756
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:40 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Enjoyed the report Joe, pity about the wind.
Those split Remington cases look exactly the same as some split cases I had with a Winchester 94 many years ago. I bought a pre 64 about 25 years ago and it came with two boxes of Imperial ammunition, every one split same as those RP cases. In all the shooting I have done with it since, both with factory and handloads I have never split a case. I put it down to the brass and figured it must have been contaminated in some way. I know this does not help but as Kirk says you can fireform brass a long way with no problem. Maybe try some new brass and see what happens, I know that all my 30-30 chambers are slightly different but it is no problem.
Those split Remington cases look exactly the same as some split cases I had with a Winchester 94 many years ago. I bought a pre 64 about 25 years ago and it came with two boxes of Imperial ammunition, every one split same as those RP cases. In all the shooting I have done with it since, both with factory and handloads I have never split a case. I put it down to the brass and figured it must have been contaminated in some way. I know this does not help but as Kirk says you can fireform brass a long way with no problem. Maybe try some new brass and see what happens, I know that all my 30-30 chambers are slightly different but it is no problem.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Cerrosafe.
And if you have a problem, maybe an Ackley Improved would fix it?
38-55?
And if you have a problem, maybe an Ackley Improved would fix it?
38-55?
Kind regards,
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
Great pic's Joe! Tho not enough. Oh well, there'll be other sessions. BTW, I did some drooling, too!.......over that pre-'64 Model '94, as well as your other toys! I certainly am in your corner as far as fixing it goes. Maybe that AI suggestion is worth looking into. We can but hope, right? I tried your suggestion of running those carts thru the LEE FCD & guess what.....it worked! I will fix those gravel-dings in the buttstock, but if I don't like the looks of it, I can have Gunstocks, Inc. make me a duplicate. Really enjoyed the session,....... looking forward to the next one, a little closer to me, IF possible. Thanx, jd45
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2569
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm
How old are the R-P cases & how long ago were they loaded?.. Have you compared those fired cases side by side with a f/l sized case to see how much forward the shoulder has moved? The cases prolly are just brittle.. Case necks get has annealed to avoid splitting after long term storage..Good LucK Joe..nice shooting ...glad you guys had a good time & thanks for the report..
Hey Joe! Something just occurred to me regarding Tycer's AI suggestion. Have you ever looked at Sam Fadala's book on the Winchester Model 1894? Check your local library.....it's got a whole chapter on the Ackley Improved .30-30 chambering. It may be a way to bring that beauty up to snuff! I for one would really like to see the problem satisfactorily corrected, without you having to hand over your left lung in exchange. jd45
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Ben,Ben_Rumson wrote:How old are the R-P cases & how long ago were they loaded?.. Have you compared those fired cases side by side with a f/l sized case to see how much forward the shoulder has moved? The cases prolly are just brittle.. Case necks get has annealed to avoid splitting after long term storage..Good LucK Joe..nice shooting ...glad you guys had a good time & thanks for the report..
The Remington cases were factory loads. Bought new a year or so ago.
The Winchester cases were over 20 years old, loaded 4 times.
If only the old Winchester cases had split I'd just think old brittle brass. But when the Remington factory loads split, that concerns me.
I haven't compared the fired cases to any full sized ones yet. Been a bit busy. Will do that later today.
The next time I get to the range, I'm going to take my 1980 Trapper and shoot the remains of both those boxes out of it. If they split there I'll be pretty sure it's bad brass. If they don't then I'll be pretty sure the pre-64 has a problem.
Tycer,
I do think a chamber cast will be done. After that we'll see. I have no interest in an AI chamber. If the barrel is toast I'll just get another 30-30 barrel. Or maybe convert it to .45 Colt .....
JD,
Glad the LFCD worked on those cases.
If you find us a range closer to mid way, let me know. I'm about through with indoor ranges. Out doors is much better.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:39 pm
- Location: South Shore of Oneida Lake,Central NY
nice report Joe,i hope the weather is better next time for ya.I have some questions about your brass situation.
Did you notice anything with your brass the last time you shot your rifle?
If you never had splits before using this rifle,I doubt the rifle is causing it now.
What kind of environment was this brass stored in?stored near or around
something that doesn't agree with brass?
Your pic of the new Rems that split shows some tarnishing or discoloration,maybe its just the pic on my end.My guess is the brass at fault.I would try some brand new ammo or handloads using new brass.A chamber cast wont hurt and give ya good info.I find this bizzare.Keep us posted.
Did you notice anything with your brass the last time you shot your rifle?
If you never had splits before using this rifle,I doubt the rifle is causing it now.
What kind of environment was this brass stored in?stored near or around
something that doesn't agree with brass?
Your pic of the new Rems that split shows some tarnishing or discoloration,maybe its just the pic on my end.My guess is the brass at fault.I would try some brand new ammo or handloads using new brass.A chamber cast wont hurt and give ya good info.I find this bizzare.Keep us posted.
Vic
Winchester Model 94(61').32 Winchester Special
Winchester Model 94(61').32 Winchester Special
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Victor,
Did you notice anything with your brass the last time you shot your rifle?
If you never had splits before using this rifle,I doubt the rifle is causing it now.
>Yes I did. I fired of a box of Remington reloads that were probably 20+ years old and had several split from that box. At the same time though I fired off a box of Winchester factory ammo and none of them split.
What kind of environment was this brass stored in?stored near or around
something that doesn't agree with brass?
All of my ammo is stored in the basement, in the cat litter tubs you saw in the pictures. The only chemicals are several feet away on another shelf. This is the first rifle that I've had any trouble with splits like this.
Your pic of the new Rems that split shows some tarnishing or discoloration,maybe its just the pic on my end.My guess is the brass at fault.I would try some brand new ammo or handloads using new brass.A chamber cast wont hurt and give ya good info.I find this bizzare.Keep us posted.
The Remington Ammo WAS NEW factory ammo. Well a couple years old at most. If you mean new as in recently acquired that's an idea too.
The discoloration might be soot in the chamber from the Winchesters that split.
Did you notice anything with your brass the last time you shot your rifle?
If you never had splits before using this rifle,I doubt the rifle is causing it now.
>Yes I did. I fired of a box of Remington reloads that were probably 20+ years old and had several split from that box. At the same time though I fired off a box of Winchester factory ammo and none of them split.
What kind of environment was this brass stored in?stored near or around
something that doesn't agree with brass?
All of my ammo is stored in the basement, in the cat litter tubs you saw in the pictures. The only chemicals are several feet away on another shelf. This is the first rifle that I've had any trouble with splits like this.
Your pic of the new Rems that split shows some tarnishing or discoloration,maybe its just the pic on my end.My guess is the brass at fault.I would try some brand new ammo or handloads using new brass.A chamber cast wont hurt and give ya good info.I find this bizzare.Keep us posted.
The Remington Ammo WAS NEW factory ammo. Well a couple years old at most. If you mean new as in recently acquired that's an idea too.
The discoloration might be soot in the chamber from the Winchesters that split.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27922
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20892
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Joe,
Sorry to hear about the wind, and yes, it was bad down here in Misery all day also.
The case necks... yes a chamber cast is definitely in order. However, you may also want to fire some more, then extract the cases S - L - O - W - L - Y to inspect just how they're oriented in the chamber. That would narrow down where you need to do a VERY CLOSE examination of the cast and your chamber. You may also find that your firing pin has a little "wiggle room" and it isn't hitting case in the same manner on each and every case.
My favorite .30-30 also splits necks fairly regularly. I can only get about 3-4 reloads out of a case. But... I'm loading fairly hot and my chamber, especially the neck area, has a really rough surface. After the first firing you can see the machine marks in each case.
On the closeup pic of the two Rem cases, I can't tell if it's a reflection, but... they appear to have some "dimples" on the shoulder. Definitely something that SHOULDN'T be there in new ammo.
Keep up informed. BTW, have you heard from Bill O.?
Sorry to hear about the wind, and yes, it was bad down here in Misery all day also.
The case necks... yes a chamber cast is definitely in order. However, you may also want to fire some more, then extract the cases S - L - O - W - L - Y to inspect just how they're oriented in the chamber. That would narrow down where you need to do a VERY CLOSE examination of the cast and your chamber. You may also find that your firing pin has a little "wiggle room" and it isn't hitting case in the same manner on each and every case.
My favorite .30-30 also splits necks fairly regularly. I can only get about 3-4 reloads out of a case. But... I'm loading fairly hot and my chamber, especially the neck area, has a really rough surface. After the first firing you can see the machine marks in each case.
On the closeup pic of the two Rem cases, I can't tell if it's a reflection, but... they appear to have some "dimples" on the shoulder. Definitely something that SHOULDN'T be there in new ammo.
Keep up informed. BTW, have you heard from Bill O.?
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1804
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:27 am
- Location: Wiregrass Area,Alabama
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Griff,
I haven't heard from Bill O yet.
I'm thinking it is a brass problem, but I'm not sure why. Here is what I'm thinking at this point:
A: The Winchester cases that split were loaded 20 years ago, but I have no idea how old they really are. My records for much of my rifle brass was lost some years back. Since it was 20 years ago I have no idea what chemicals this batch of brass might have been exposed to.
B: The Remington brass that split is nothing new to me. I've seen this before, but not often. It looks like a stretch split or defective brass.
C: The splits on the Winchester brass look to me like fatigued or crystallized brass. I've seen this before on old factory ammo and ammo that has been exposed to chemicals.
D: I measured the split cases and the loaded cases from each box at the case necks. They were round and there was less than .006" difference between the fired cases and the unfired cases.
The first time I shot this rifle I fired off some R-P reloads that were as old as these Winchesters I fired Wednesday. Some split. But I fired some factory W-W stuff that did not split.
What I'm thinking is that I've got a big coincidence here. Much of my brass is very old. I think it's going bad, and I think the R-P stuff may be a bad batch.
SO ~ What I'm going to do is this. I've got one of those ratcheting chamber brushes like the military issues for the M1s and I'm going to clean the chamber as good as I can.
Then the next range trip I'll take my Pre 64 and my Trapper and shoot some of both ammo and see what happens. I'm thinking that old Winchester brass will split in both of them.
Joe
I haven't heard from Bill O yet.
I'm thinking it is a brass problem, but I'm not sure why. Here is what I'm thinking at this point:
A: The Winchester cases that split were loaded 20 years ago, but I have no idea how old they really are. My records for much of my rifle brass was lost some years back. Since it was 20 years ago I have no idea what chemicals this batch of brass might have been exposed to.
B: The Remington brass that split is nothing new to me. I've seen this before, but not often. It looks like a stretch split or defective brass.
C: The splits on the Winchester brass look to me like fatigued or crystallized brass. I've seen this before on old factory ammo and ammo that has been exposed to chemicals.
D: I measured the split cases and the loaded cases from each box at the case necks. They were round and there was less than .006" difference between the fired cases and the unfired cases.
The first time I shot this rifle I fired off some R-P reloads that were as old as these Winchesters I fired Wednesday. Some split. But I fired some factory W-W stuff that did not split.
What I'm thinking is that I've got a big coincidence here. Much of my brass is very old. I think it's going bad, and I think the R-P stuff may be a bad batch.
SO ~ What I'm going to do is this. I've got one of those ratcheting chamber brushes like the military issues for the M1s and I'm going to clean the chamber as good as I can.
Then the next range trip I'll take my Pre 64 and my Trapper and shoot some of both ammo and see what happens. I'm thinking that old Winchester brass will split in both of them.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
One of JD's guns I got to fire was his Accusport Bisley convertible. I've held a Ruger Bisley before but never shot one. This gun was all stainless with a 5.5" barrel. I found the gun to be very well balanced in spite of it's weight. I got to fire both the .45 Colt and ACP cylinder out of it and the recoil was mild to say the least.
Handling the Bisley in the shops and actually shooting it was two totally different things. I don't like the looks of the Bisley grip. I didn't like the feel when I held them in the gun shop, but at the range it was very interesting. There is a lot to hang on to.
Now I have fired an Uberti copy of the Colt Bisley, and the Ruger Bisley. I am more informed now .
I would like to shoot a Ruger Bisley some more to really get a feel of one, and yet I am not sure. One thing is for sure, I can't bad mouth them any more. Darn it.
Hey JD, can I borrow your Bisley? I'll help you work up some loads for it........
Joe
Handling the Bisley in the shops and actually shooting it was two totally different things. I don't like the looks of the Bisley grip. I didn't like the feel when I held them in the gun shop, but at the range it was very interesting. There is a lot to hang on to.
Now I have fired an Uberti copy of the Colt Bisley, and the Ruger Bisley. I am more informed now .
I would like to shoot a Ruger Bisley some more to really get a feel of one, and yet I am not sure. One thing is for sure, I can't bad mouth them any more. Darn it.
Hey JD, can I borrow your Bisley? I'll help you work up some loads for it........
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***