New combinations
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Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
New combinations
Picked up new to me guns, and scopes recently. I was selling a friend's estate, and ended up buying one of his Ballard Rifle Co. rifles. It was built in Cody, Wy. around 2004, and was the last of many he bought from Ballard Rifle Co. over about a decade. It's a .22LR done in their Schoyen pattern schuetzen rifle style. Has a extra heavy 30" full round barrel, Schoyen buttstock, and buttplate, with cheekpiece. Palm rest on the forearm, and nicely checkered, with a ebony insert in the forearm. Double set triggers, and set up with MVA tang sight, and Baldwin globe front. I decided to dig out an early J Unertl scope I had stashed in the safe, as the barrel had scope blocks on it also. It looked great with the old 6x Unertl on the newer Ballard, so will see some use of both scope and iron sights.
In Nov. last year we were at the Reno gun show, and I saw a fella carrying an old long tube scope around. I asked to look at it, and after seeing it was a very early J Stevens A&T scope, and had great optics; we worked out a price. In my mind I had a gun that I hoped it would fit! I've owned an old Ballard special order #3 in .22 Long for many years, and it had holes with plug screws in the barrel, which were an odd long spacing for an early scope. I tried to put it on, but realized that this old scope used an odd size base block, and nothing I had would fit. I had a machinist friend carve me out two blocks, with the correct screw spacing, and mounted it up.
The combination of the gun, and the scope's patina appeared to be a perfect match! If I didn't know better, it looks like what was most likely on this Ballard many decades ago! The Ballard dates to around 1877, with a 4 digit serial number, and the scope dates to the early 1900's, when many old rifles began to be scoped. The #3 has special order maple stocks, with shadow line cheekpiece, and a brass crescent buttplate. The optional checkering is well worn, and barely visible on the forearm. The forearm is tipped with ebony also. The #3 was ordered sans a rear barrel sight, and has a midrange gallery tang sight, and a globe front. After nearly 140 years, it's still got a surprisingly good bore, and shoots well. Now it looks complete, and I don't have to look at those filled holes and wonder what it used to look like!
In Nov. last year we were at the Reno gun show, and I saw a fella carrying an old long tube scope around. I asked to look at it, and after seeing it was a very early J Stevens A&T scope, and had great optics; we worked out a price. In my mind I had a gun that I hoped it would fit! I've owned an old Ballard special order #3 in .22 Long for many years, and it had holes with plug screws in the barrel, which were an odd long spacing for an early scope. I tried to put it on, but realized that this old scope used an odd size base block, and nothing I had would fit. I had a machinist friend carve me out two blocks, with the correct screw spacing, and mounted it up.
The combination of the gun, and the scope's patina appeared to be a perfect match! If I didn't know better, it looks like what was most likely on this Ballard many decades ago! The Ballard dates to around 1877, with a 4 digit serial number, and the scope dates to the early 1900's, when many old rifles began to be scoped. The #3 has special order maple stocks, with shadow line cheekpiece, and a brass crescent buttplate. The optional checkering is well worn, and barely visible on the forearm. The forearm is tipped with ebony also. The #3 was ordered sans a rear barrel sight, and has a midrange gallery tang sight, and a globe front. After nearly 140 years, it's still got a surprisingly good bore, and shoots well. Now it looks complete, and I don't have to look at those filled holes and wonder what it used to look like!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- fordwannabe
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3371
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:52 am
- Location: Womelsdorf PA
Re: New combinations
In a word..WOW.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2268
- Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 pm
Re: New combinations
+1fordwannabe wrote:In a word..WOW.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: Between No Where & No Place, WA
Re: New combinations
Be still my heart!
Do not have an original Ballard, but I was wise enough to purchase a #5 Pacific .45-2.1" (.45-70) and a #7 Long Range .40-65 when Steve Garby was working for Ballard. Very fine workmanship and of course wonderful set triggers that break as clean as glass!
Last month the "discovery" of the ever-elusive and extremely rare #5 1/2 Montana was discussed in a thread on the Marlin Owner's forum:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marli ... -help.html
Do not have an original Ballard, but I was wise enough to purchase a #5 Pacific .45-2.1" (.45-70) and a #7 Long Range .40-65 when Steve Garby was working for Ballard. Very fine workmanship and of course wonderful set triggers that break as clean as glass!
Last month the "discovery" of the ever-elusive and extremely rare #5 1/2 Montana was discussed in a thread on the Marlin Owner's forum:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marli ... -help.html
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9117
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: New combinations
Omigosh, what a gorgeous Ballard! My fellow Oregonian "done good."
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
My friend had 4 Cody Ballards. A #4 DST, in .22 LR, and another #4 identical in .45-70. Had a #6 Offhand in .38-50 Remington Hepburn, and then this Schoyen in .22LR.Ray Newman wrote:Be still my heart!
Last month the "discovery" of the ever-elusive and extremely rare #5 1/2 Montana was discussed in a thread on the Marlin Owner's forum:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marli ... -help.html
Hope to shoot the Schoyen soon, if weather gets better. It has a Badger barrel, with a match chamber. Almost chambers a .22LR, and the breechblock finishes the chambering. My friend was casting his own 40 gr. bullets, and pulling .22LR bullets to reload them with his powder and bullet. I found one box made up, and marked, "Holy Grail" on top. Also found a Paul Jones mold for the bullet, and some cast bullets. Not sure I'll go the reloading .22LR route though.
I never wanted a Cody Ballard, as I was stuck on original Ballards. But I had this gun about 3 weeks, as I was selling his estate. Every time someone made an offer, or asked the price, I felt a little pang of something. I eventually realized I couldn't sell his favorite gun, and made his wife an offer. She was happy I was buying it, and knocked my offer down some more, as she said Fred would be happy I was going to keep it. And I am happy too!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Thanks Bill! Had to really step up, as it cost more than my 26 original Marlin Ballards each cost me. But I'm glad I did it.Bill in Oregon wrote:Omigosh, what a gorgeous Ballard! My fellow Oregonian "done good."
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New combinations
Some day I'd like to have a recent Ballard in the Schoyen schuetzen style in 28-30 or 32-40 . And a CPA Pope Schuetzen in either of the same calibers !
And of course Lyman Super Target Spots or Unertls to go on top !
But that little Ballard Schoyen you just got is rather sharp !
And of course Lyman Super Target Spots or Unertls to go on top !
But that little Ballard Schoyen you just got is rather sharp !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Re: New combinations
MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?
I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Thanks! I'm uncertain how to tell the difference in the two scopes, but I believe this J Unertl dates back to his earliest days, as it has Lyman mounts John Unertl used then, and no serial number, like later Unertls all had. Being a 6x also would indicate it's likely a "small game", as I believe the Gallery weren't this high a magnification.6pt-sika wrote:MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?
I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
CPA's can still be purchased, but not a Ballard. The company in Cody sold to a Michigan man in 2007, and he moved the company to Michigan. None of the former employees would move, so he started out from scratch after the move. After raising prices to astronomical $4500-$7000 levels, they closed their doors a couple years ago. No word since then, even though their web site still exists.
I just sold off 13 Lyman Super Targetspots, and Lyman Junior Targetspots from my friend's collection. Everything from a 6x to 30x, and all sizes in between! Put them on the ASSRA forum and they went in one day.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: Between No Where & No Place, WA
Re: New combinations
MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.
When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
Last edited by Ray Newman on Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Re: New combinations
Stunning
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
I've collected Marlin Ballards for decades, and was fortunate to acquire an interest before the Quigley craze, and everyone going single shot rifle nuts. I bought my #5 Pacific at a local antique auction for a whopping $410, and even then I was very excited at the price! The auction had it listed as a "Marlin muzzleloader"! I chuckled when I looked at it during pre auction. The bore was perfect, and wiping rod was missing. Covered in a brown fuzz, but I rubbed a clean spot on a bottom barrel flat, and saw nice bluing under the fuzz. I have a couple dozen original Marlin Ballards, but this is my first (and probably only) clone. From what I see, the Cody Ballard is as good, (and maybe better) than the original Ballards!Ray Newman wrote:MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.
When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Thanks!rjohns94 wrote:Stunning
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New combinations
Wow...
One word -- no -- not even 100 words are enough to respond to those first pix.
My late father had 2 original Ballard's in 38-55 and another in 22 LR; those went to my 3 brothers and I got a High Wall 38-55 and 22. He instilled a love in old single shots in all 4 of us boys.
Wow, he would have loved that one. Very nice!
Tight groups.
Old No7
One word -- no -- not even 100 words are enough to respond to those first pix.
My late father had 2 original Ballard's in 38-55 and another in 22 LR; those went to my 3 brothers and I got a High Wall 38-55 and 22. He instilled a love in old single shots in all 4 of us boys.
Wow, he would have loved that one. Very nice!
Tight groups.
Old No7
"Freedom and the Second Amendment... One cannot exist without the other." © 2000 DTH
Re: New combinations
You have an original Zischang don't you ? Not sure if I spelled it correctly .marlinman93 wrote:Thanks! I'm uncertain how to tell the difference in the two scopes, but I believe this J Unertl dates back to his earliest days, as it has Lyman mounts John Unertl used then, and no serial number, like later Unertls all had. Being a 6x also would indicate it's likely a "small game", as I believe the Gallery weren't this high a magnification.6pt-sika wrote:MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?
I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
CPA's can still be purchased, but not a Ballard. The company in Cody sold to a Michigan man in 2007, and he moved the company to Michigan. None of the former employees would move, so he started out from scratch after the move. After raising prices to astronomical $4500-$7000 levels, they closed their doors a couple years ago. No word since then, even though their web site still exists.
I just sold off 13 Lyman Super Targetspots, and Lyman Junior Targetspots from my friend's collection. Everything from a 6x to 30x, and all sizes in between! Put them on the ASSRA forum and they went in one day.
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
No, I don't have a Zischang Ballard. Wish I did! I have an original Schoyen Ballard, and a Zettler Bros. Ballard.6pt-sika wrote:marlinman93 wrote:
You have an original Zischang don't you ? Not sure if I spelled it correctly .
Schoyen Ballard .38-55:
Zettler Bros. Ballard .22 Short:
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Thanks Old No7! I recently sold both my Win. 1885's. One Low wall and one High Wall. Both special sporting, with small Swiss buttplates. Wish I could keep them all, but finances require something I love less to go for something I love more. The Ballards, and Remington single shots take up all my time and funds.Old No7 wrote:Wow...
One word -- no -- not even 100 words are enough to respond to those first pix.
My late father had 2 original Ballard's in 38-55 and another in 22 LR; those went to my 3 brothers and I got a High Wall 38-55 and 22. He instilled a love in old single shots in all 4 of us boys.
Wow, he would have loved that one. Very nice!
Tight groups.
Old No7
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New combinations
Absolutely wonderful! Great combinations of rifles and glass.
Eric
Eric
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Thanks Eric!yooper2 wrote:Absolutely wonderful! Great combinations of rifles and glass.
Eric
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
Blew your picture up quite large, and saw a couple Winchester 1885 Low wall singles, and a couple repeaters. Don't see any Ballards or Schuetzen rifles in the picture though? Surprising, considering Davenport, Iowa was a huge area for schuetzen competition!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20877
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: New combinations
Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!marlinman93 wrote:I've collected Marlin Ballards for decades, and was fortunate to acquire an interest before the Quigley craze, and everyone going single shot rifle nuts. I bought my #5 Pacific at a local antique auction for a whopping $410, and even then I was very excited at the price! The auction had it listed as a "Marlin muzzleloader"! I chuckled when I looked at it during pre auction. The bore was perfect, and wiping rod was missing. Covered in a brown fuzz, but I rubbed a clean spot on a bottom barrel flat, and saw nice bluing under the fuzz. I have a couple dozen original Marlin Ballards, but this is my first (and probably only) clone. From what I see, the Cody Ballard is as good, (and maybe better) than the original Ballards!Ray Newman wrote:MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.
When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New combinations
About what Griff?Griff wrote:Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20877
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: New combinations
Yer new Ballard, he'll be wantin' to drool over it! Not that I don't!marlinman93 wrote:About what Griff?Griff wrote:Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!