444 for Wyoming Elk

pahunter · Post by **pahunter** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:00 pm

Well, I got lucky and drew an elk permit for Wyoming this year.

The outfitter says to be ready for shots out to 300 yards. I have a 30-06 and 444 that I plan on taking. My question is for you folks who have hunted the West, and specifically Wyoming. The 444 is a 200 yard gun in my hands, is it true that shots are typically 250-300 yards out? It would be great to take an elk with the lever, but this being a once in a lifetime hunt, am I adding a handicap to what I'm sure will be a tough hunt?

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:19 pm

Depends on where you're hunting. There are some areas that are extremely open country. Also some of these seasons run in the mid-late Sept. during the rut. I've hunted a bunch in WY which is my home state. Some years all I've carried was my 45-70 and killed elk every year. It's a gamble that you may see a trophy bull beyond your 444's reach. I've had to watch a few get away knowing I'd never get back on them, knowing also I could have reached them with my 35 Whelen or 270 Wby. My saving grace is that I knew that I could hunt here as much as I want. I do believe that there is some measure of pride in taking one with your levergun. It means, to me, that you were willing to HUNT for your animal and take that gamble.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:45 pm

Take both - be prepared to go either way. Out here you can shoot any distance depending on the terrain. Some very short, some very long shots may present.

hartman · Post by **hartman** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:46 pm

Like Wes says there are different areas where shots will be different. I can't say what you should do but about six years ago I went to shooting my 45-70 for everything. I'm not afraid to let an elk walk cause I live here. My only suggestion's would be to take the rifle you like the best, either will do well. Buy or borrow a range finder, distance perception is different than what you are used to...uphill, down hill across a valley, especially if you are doing this on your own.

Go git em,
Hartman

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:37 pm

One more depends on where you're hunting at vote.
Also depends on whether your outfitter meant 300 yds is a long shot or 250-300 is as close as he will get you.

Also what type of hunt is it? If you're packing in to the back country carrying a second rifle is just excess baggage. If you're hunting out of lowcamps/motels then taking a second gun is probably ok. But be forewarned you could end up shooting an elk at point blank with your 06, and really wishing you had the extra range of the 06 when the elk is out at 350 and all you have is the 444.
One last word of encouragement, just be aware that even in the really good years, 60% of all the elk hunters here go home with unfilled tags, and most of those folks never even got to take the safety off.
Elk don't really behave much like the infomercials on the tv channels would have you believe.

pahunter · Post by **pahunter** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:38 am

The outfitter said that 300 yards is generally the max for most hunters, which is good since I'm not comfortable stretching it any further. We're hunting from horses from a base camp, so taking a second rifle on the trip, it not the actual hunt, is an option. I guess if we find the elk in timber I can grab the 444 as we leave in the morning, but I doubt I can take both out at the same time. I'm really looking forward to seeing this part of the country, I've read so much about it. Much different than the 30 yard shots we have in PA and WV!

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:37 am

I have taken a couple elk at 400 yards here in CO and the 300WinMag chambering I use is by far the most popular chambering around here, in fact I can only think of one buddy who doesn't use one, and he uses a 7mag. Flat shooting magnums rule around here because when you get that hard to find shot, not having to guess holdover and knowing it will have plenty of juice when it gets there if all you can get is a 400 yard shot is cheap insurance for meat in the freezer. That being said, I'm going to be hunting a different area than usual this year that is a little rougher and steeper than usual and I plan to take the 45-70. Of course I have planned that a couple hunts in a row now, but I always seem to grab the proven 300WM at the last minute. Guess I'm a little bit of a chicken in that respect.

86er · Post by **86er** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:45 am

When I guide someone that wants to use a certain rifle, but it may limit capability, I usually volunteer to carry the clients other rifle. When the opportunity arises, the client will be able to use whatever tool is appropriate. Ask your outfitter. He should accomm0date you. Good Luck!

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:15 pm

I've hunted elk for 15 years in Wyoming. My farthest shot was about 280 yards and another was about 200. All the rest were between 30-100 yards. That's why I switched from a 7mm Rem Mag to a Marlin 45-70. All my hunting is in the N/W area near Jackson and it's mostly heavily wooded. Like 86er said, take both. You may see some that will require a longer shot because of the terrain and lack of concealment. Most of all, have fun and good luck.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:31 pm

The Leverevolution .444 stuff has proven itself.....check that out....

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:45 pm

Lord knows I'm no hunting expert but I have hunted for over 53-years and one of the things I have learned is that you tailor your hunt for the rifle you use and of course other variables too. If you have a .30-06, 7MM Remington Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum, etc., you can take the long shots and don't need to stalk, work closer in, etc. However, if you are using a .30-30, .444 Marlin, .45-70, etc. you have to do more stalking, work in closer etc.

I have been on a couple of guided hunts and the outfitter was willing to do some stalking and close in tracking in order for the guys in our party who were using mostly lever action rifles. However, a buddy of mine went on a guided hunt and the outfitter thought that as long as they/he found game at a reasonable distance (300 yards for him) that there was no need to work in closer to the game as long as there was a clear shot.

Take both rifles and TELL your guide that you will be hunting with a .444. If he balks at that, get another outfitter. 86er made a good point too. Ask the guide if he is willing to carry your second rifle for you.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:15 pm

86er wrote:When I guide someone that wants to use a certain rifle, but it may limit capability, I usually volunteer to carry the clients other rifle. When the opportunity arises, the client will be able to use whatever tool is appropriate. Ask your outfitter. He should accomm0date you. Good Luck!

That seems like a fair idea on the outside. Problem is it starts running up against some of the hunting/guide laws. If the guide carries the extra rifle , he is engaged in hunting, and must have a valid hunting license, and abide by all the hunting regulations, This could be a problem if the guide is a non resident and the hunt is in designated wilderness area.Also Wyoming guide law says that the guide must have the clients written permission to hunt while guiding.
Best bet in the end is to talk to your outfitter and tell him you would prefer to hunt with rifle x and take it from there. If he can accomidate your levergun's range requirements then all is well. But this isn't a highfenced whitetail hunt in the flatlands

, and at 9000ft nobody wants to carry anything they don't have an immediate use for.

So choose your rifle and go have a good time.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:42 pm

another vote for the .444 leverevolutions. 06 shoots flatter, but aint is much fun.

MikeNV · Post by **MikeNV** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:39 pm

Tailor your hunt to what weapon you would like to take the game with. I've hunted both antelope and elk with primitive blackpowder rifles and have had to make my hunting stratigies fit the weapon I was using at the time. Knowing that you may have to pass on a shot or figure how to get close enough to make it work.

This last year I hunted antelope with two leverguns, a .357mag w/scout scope (took one at approx. 125yds) and a .38-55 with open sights (took one at 148yds). I have felt more satisfied with making the 148 yrd shot with the 38-55 than any 400 yd shot with a scoped rifle; took an elk in MT with a 30-06 at 480+yds or at least that was the last large rock that my range finder would read off of and I wasn't as excited as making a gun from the last century work for me.

Your mileage may vary...

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:20 am

I've gone elk hunting nearly every season since I was 9 ; been carrying a rifle since I was 12.

My average shot is about 225 yards. In 2002, I took a chubby youngster bull with Glenfield 30-30 at a distance of about 80 yards or so. Took two shots to down the animal. But a non-resident is better served with 300 Savage, .308, 30-06, etc. These lever cartridges can strike with authority to about 275 yards or so. A little extra reach is helpful sometimes.

Ask your guide what he recommends. Not using a guide? OOF-dah.

TR

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:54 pm

Wonder how those 'old and slow' Springfield Trapdoors did on those Elk back in the 1880's? Probably why it took so long for Wyoming to become a state...so many people must have died of starvation.

That being said, got myself a nice Bull Elk up in the Bitter Roots by the Clark Fork that I spotted at about 800 yards. 'Course it took my .44 mag chambered in a '94 Trapper to do it. Then again, we (my guide) spotted the night before I got 'em and the guide bet me I could not get him with that little Trapper. He bet my portion of the hunt....took me all night to climb down that valley, belly waddle thru the mud banks, and lie in the bull rushes before I got that big Bull from 40 yards with one shot. Point is, what kind of challenge are you looking for?