Red dot reflex sight questions

[Hawkins]

I've been getting interested in trying one of the red dot reflex sights, like the Burris Fastfire or Leupold Deltapoint. I'm thinking one might work well for short to medium range deer, pigs, and such, maybe giving a little more range and precision than iron sights, but without the weight and bulk of a scope. On a regular rifle (not an AR, which is where they seem most popular), do most people mount them on the receiver, or as a "scout" style? How does the mount height compare with that of a regular scope? Has anybody used them hunting, and how did you like them? All comments and opinions appreciated!

Thanks,

Hawkins

[Chuck 100 yd]

I tried a couple reflex red dot sights and ended up finding I like the 30mm tube type red dot`s best.
Can you try one before buying? That was my problem, no one I shoot with had one to test out before spending the money. Both types are good, it`s just personal preference. Buy the best you can afford and avoid the super cheep ones.

[7.62 Precision]

The reflex sights are excellent for close, fast hunting, for the same reasons they are excellent for combat. My favorite is the M21 http://www.7-62precision.com/mepro-m21- ... lex-sight/ for a full-sized sight on a rifle. I would not use a micro-sized sight on an AR or similar type of rifle, since the small size is a liability, but on other rifles, a full-sized otic cam be a liability in how high the sight is positioned.

On a levergun, I would generally prefer a tube-style reflex sight (Aimpoint-style) mounted as low as possible, since that looks like a more traditional style, and if you get either a 1" or 30mm tube it is still plenty compact but with the advantages of the larger aperture, and is a strong design.

If you prefer the style of the sights you listed, I would look at the Trijicon RMR. I spoke with Suarez in detail once about his choice of the RMR for his Glocks. http://www.onesourcetactical.com/tsdcom ... qJ55uBbp94 He had tested every sight of that style, and found that not only was the RMR the toughest sight he tested, but only the RMR had a manufacturer's guarantee of water resistance. All of the other manufacturers told him not go get their sights wet at that time. He was demonstrating the strenght of the RMR by holding the Glock by the barrel end and hammering a table and a concrete floor with the sight repeatedly, and then firing at longer ranges to show that it held zero. I see that he now offers the Docter III sight, so maybe it also meets his requirements.

There are advantages to mounting an optic forward, and many special operations soldiers do so.
With the optic mounted forward, the rifle tends to be more quick and natural to point. Your peripheral view is better. The weight of the sight (if it is a full-size sight) keeps the barrel down when shooting. When working with former IDF Navy Seals and others, I notice that they always mount the optics on the handguards of an AR. I do sometimes and sometimes not, depending on the rifle. On AKs or vz.58s, I don't even bother trying to find a contrived way to mount an optic rearward - I just mount them over the handguard. So I have shot a lot with forward mounted optics, even on rifles on which the optic can easily be mounted to the rear.

[7.62 Precision]

As far as height, if it is a rifle like a bolt gun that is designed for a scope, then you may find that the micro sights mount a little low, depending on your mounting system.

If it is a levergun or shotgun or other rifle designed for low iron sights, then you may find the hight just right.

If mounting a reflex sight on any traditional rifle, you will probably not want to mount it quite as high as you would on an AR, since the stock on the AR is in line with the barrel.

With a bolt rifle, mount it at the same height you would mount a scope on the same rifle. If using a micro-sized sight, you may need a riser of some kind.

With a levergun, shotgun, or anything else not really stocked for optics, the lower you can get the centerline of the optic the better, generally.

[jeepnik]

I put one on my GS just after I got it. It works pretty well. I have since replaced it with a traditional scope, but only because my eyes are needing more and more help. Sucks getting old.

My eldest now has the one shown here on another Marlin in 30-30. He's very quick with it, and good out to distances far beyond what I could ever use it for.

[AJMD429]

I have the Burris Fastfire-II (along with an older-style LaserMax 'pistol' laser) on all three of my 'Night Scout' leverguns, and a couple other 'spare' Fastfire-II's I put on everything from handguns to AR's depending on what suits my mood. The Fastfire-II is so unobtrusive, but easy to line up and use quickly in about any lighting condition - I really like them...!

The first one - .357 Mag Marlin 1894 - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=23531



The second one - .45 Colt Rossi 1892 - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=31062



The third one - .44 Mag (at first) Marlin 1894 - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=40663



The guns work fine with just the Fastfire-II's in everything from bright sunlight to dawn/dusk, but I wanted a gun that could not only be fast, accurate, and compact for 'daytime' use, but double as a 'chore' gun for going out to check livestock feeders or whatever, at night. So I added the LaserMax, which greatly helps verify target acquisition when you're dealing with a possum scurrying around the henhouse at night; the LED flashlight just clips on to the magazine tube on the 357 Mag, but I sweated a rail on for use of 30mm scope rings for the 44 Mag and 45 Colt versions.

Here is a three-shot group fired at 50 yards from the Marlin 1894-CSS 357 above - at MIDNIGHT, with the Fastfire/LaserMax combination sight and clip-on light shown on it...

[Pete44ru]

.

I've mounted & used several different reflex sights, and like that they don't require a front sight.

It doesn't matter whether they're receiver or bbl mounted, since they have no magnification.

I have mounted them on the rear of the bbl (w/dovetail adaptor base), the receiver (using either front or base on a M94AE), and atop the rear of a TE M94's bolt (via D/T the bolt w/2 holes for a small Weaver BAR base) successfully.

If the rifle to receive one has a lot of drop to the buttstock, IMO the rear bbl mount aligns best/fastest.

Although YMMV, I prefer the micro/mimi types, like the old Tasco Optima & Dr.Optic - although the Burris Fastfires are very acceptable.


.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

What are you mounting it on? Getting a decent cheek weld on some leverguns can be a problem.

This Browning had a high enough stock for this scout scope setup.



But, the 92's tend to be too low.


this is Rossi's fix for it. A rubber wart. Ug-LEEE



I have done a few of the Burris FastFires mounted directly to the barrel, no rail to get it low enough.


Folks ask if I sell just the mount. I don't because it's one-of custom made and requires a second dovetail to be cut in the barrel near the other.

[oklahoma red]

Good day to ya Hawkins.
I am a huge proponent of the red dot sight! Have been on all of my go-to hunting guns since about 2004. I perfer the tube type to the single lens. Only experience with a single lens has been with the "J-Point", it was dimmer than the tube types I tried (but it had no on-off switch or brightness adjustments). Have used them in our local range's "fun-3-gun" matches and they are fast and as accurate as optics (our max distance shots are 100yds.).
Great for game on the move and follow-up shots; but can still make standing head and neck shots, if needed, with confidence.
Have one mounted on the receiver of my 1985 cowboy:

and one mounted "Scout style" on my Puma 357:

As others have stated, need to keep them as low as possible. Both of my rifles have higher than normal cheeks on them now, for better natural alignment.

Only words of advise:
Skip the cheaper ones (my 45-70 and mossberg 835 have killed four different ones, with recoil)
Stay away from the high platform AR 15 style (the eotech is nice, but you won't be able to see it on a lever gun)
Batteries are cheap, carry lots of them and get used to changing them "just because".
Just my $.02

Happy shootin to ya,
OkR

[Hawkins]

All,

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. There are some very creative setups out there! Nate, that is a beautifle '86 (or '71). Red--nice pig! My brother and I are going to try for some porkers this weekend, though I doubt there are many that size where we're going.

I've got an old tube type that I found in the back of the safe, and I'm thinking I'll buy an inexpensive reflex (Cabela's has some good Christmas sales) and try them out on a .22 before I commit the big bucks for one or the other.

The rifle I really want to mount one on is a steel-frame BLR. Browning sells a scout mount for the aluminum framed takedown model, but I doubt it would fit what I have. And there's no dovetail cut in the barrel, so any type of scout setup would require a bit of work.

I agree with all the comments about the mount height, and that was one of my big concerns. I think I tend to get a tighter cheek weld than most people, as I often find scopes to be mounted too high for my liking. My current setup on the BLR is with Leupold style bases and extra-low rings, and I wouldn't want it any higher. So I think I'd probably be OK with one of the reflex sights from what everyone has said, even if mounted on the receiver.

Does anybody know if there is a weaver-style one piece base for the steel BLR's, in case I wanted to go with a reflex? My first few searches didn't find anything. Or are any of them small enough to fit on one of the pieces from a two-piece weaver base?

What's the furthest distance anyone has used them? I'd like it to be good out to 200 - 250 yards. Preferences for reticle style--smaller dot, crosshair, or...?

Thanks again!

Hawkins

[North Country Gal]

I have used red dots on my Winchester and Marlin lever guns, both over the receiver and up forward on a scout mount. They have a lot of advantages - very quick to get on target, better accuracy for these old eyes than iron sights and light enough not to affect the handling of a lever gun, unlike a typical scope.

Unfortunately, even the small ones tend to sit too high on my guns, so I do have to pull my cheek up off the stock and that is something I hate to do with a lever gun. Yes, I could add a cheek pad, but don't want to head down that road. Then, too, as something of a traditionalist, I'm not too crzy about electronics on a traditional gun, even though I use red dots on a lot of my target pistols. Just me, though. Your Browning, being a more modern design, may have a higher comb. Be worth a try.

[AJMD429]

Here's a picture of the re-do mount I used on my Marlin 1894 in 357 Mag. I kept the XS Scout Rail on the other Marlin, because it has a single-point sling mount (AR-15 type) on the rear portion of the Rail that I like. For the 357 Mag, though, I just use a regular scope-rail.

Burris on regular scope base.jpg

If you were only going to use the Burris Fastfire-II without the 'upside down' LaserMax, you could use just ONE section of an ordinary two-piece scope base. It keeps the sight height pretty low. I have bad enough vision that I grew up wearing glasses and using scopes, on non-high-comb rifles, so I've always used a 'chin weld' instead of a cheek-weld, so even a high mount doesn't bother me much.

If you really wanted to do the 'back-up' iron-sight thing, you could mount the Fastfire-II on one chunk of a two-piece mount, and use the other space for a Williams FP or other 'receiver' sight.

Of note, the way the separate base is made for the Fastfire, you could likely just drill the two 'Marlin' holes in a base-plate, then mount the gun directly on the receiver, lowering it enough it might even 'co-witness' with some of the higher receiver-sights like the Skinner. In fact, I just checked, and they make a model that would work just for that purpose...


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/683290 ... 1895-matte

[jmiller]

I have a relatively new Winchester 1886 45-70 that I put a Burris FastFire3 on using a Turnbull receiver mount. It sits very low on the receiver and doesn't look overly conspicuous on the gun. I bought a new Williams FP receiver sight at the same time and put both on the gun. After looking through the Burris I left it on the gun and put the Williams back in the box (unused). I can get pretty regular 1.3-1.5" five shot groups with the gun out at 100 yds. I'm very happy with it. I have had about a dozen or so red dots on various handguns over the years and have always found them to be very accurate and reliable. I'd stay away from the bargain entry ones since they don't hold up very well and aren't repeatable.

[Hawkins]

Thanks again for all the great comments and suggestions. Lots of good ideas. I'll report back after I've tested out a few things.

Hawkins